C&P Intended or Bug?

[cmdrblackjay]

Right, just wanted to share an experience today and ask if this is really what is intended or whether some of this is bugs. Have to say that the experience today does erode enjoyment of the game for me....

All started when I noticed that I was getting increased jerking / stuttering especially around planet surfaces since 3.0. Frontier help were great and suggested trying different ships on different planet surfaces.

So, I parked my Asp in a space station in Wyrd and bought an Eagle to try a couple of planet surfaces out.
Whilst performing some audacious maneouvres on one of the surfaces., an NPC popped up taking an interest in my cargo hold. I was offended but decided that even with stock pulse lasers I could take on an Adder. So I turned round and made a terrible mistake in opening fire without waiting for the scan to complete. Turns out this chap wasn't wanted in the system. By then though, out of principle I foolishly continued to teach the fellow a lesson and before long he was minus a ship and I was plus a bounty for 5000 credits.
Feeling a sense of moral justification but technically having committed an offence I landed and logged off.

Today I thought I'd retrieve my Asp and continue on my merry way. Trouble was, when I landed on the space station, I was an anononymous login and couldn't access any services.

Looked up how to clear this and found out that I needed to find an interstellar contact. The nearest was ages away and I only had a 8Ly jump range on my eagle.
I was under the impression that crimes are logged against the ship. 'I know' I thought, 'I'll dramatically self detonate my ship in the middle of the space station thus admitting culpability, clearing my bounty and providing a marvellous spectacle for all concerned. Yes I'll lose my 400000 community goal credit but it's worth it to save the hassle. I did so, found myself reappearing in a different station in the same system with all the same crimes still present.

For goodness sake I thought, I'm going to have to find this interstellar faction chap. So I set off on my massively irritating journey and finally found one. When I arrived it turns out I can't clear my bounty because my 'notoriety' is not zero. This can take several hours I understand to go down, and does so in an apparently arbitrary and random way.

Basically Frontier I just want my ship back. Yes I am guilty of destroying an NPC that was threatening me but it seems extraordinary to punish me in quite this way. I am basically unable to continue playing the game as I would like for literally hours. I know that PvP was an issue but don't forget to keep the game fun. NPCs are just that, I don't think my Adder pilot is going to be particularly bothered about my lack of scan because he doesn't exist....

Would be interested if this is really what is intended, because to be honest, I would urge a rethink if so.... Interested in other people's views as well, perhaps I deserved it?!!!

Cheers Black Jay.

 

[Hevak]

Right, just wanted to share an experience today and ask if this is really what is intended or whether some of this is bugs. Have to say that the experience today does erode enjoyment of the game for me....

All started when I noticed that I was getting increased jerking / stuttering especially around planet surfaces since 3.0. Frontier help were great and suggested trying different ships on different planet surfaces.

So, I parked my Asp in a space station in Wyrd and bought an Eagle to try a couple of planet surfaces out.
Whilst performing some audacious maneouvres on one of the surfaces., an NPC popped up taking an interest in my cargo hold. I was offended but decided that even with stock pulse lasers I could take on an Adder. So I turned round and made a terrible mistake in opening fire without waiting for the scan to complete. Turns out this chap wasn't wanted in the system. By then though, out of principle I foolishly continued to teach the fellow a lesson and before long he was minus a ship and I was plus a bounty for 5000 credits.
Feeling a sense of moral justification but technically having committed an offence I landed and logged off.

Today I thought I'd retrieve my Asp and continue on my merry way. Trouble was, when I landed on the space station, I was an anononymous login and couldn't access any services.

Looked up how to clear this and found out that I needed to find an interstellar contact. The nearest was ages away and I only had a 8Ly jump range on my eagle.
I was under the impression that crimes are logged against the ship. 'I know' I thought, 'I'll dramatically self detonate my ship in the middle of the space station thus admitting culpability, clearing my bounty and providing a marvellous spectacle for all concerned. Yes I'll lose my 400000 community goal credit but it's worth it to save the hassle. I did so, found myself reappearing in a different station in the same system with all the same crimes still present.

For goodness sake I thought, I'm going to have to find this interstellar faction chap. So I set off on my massively irritating journey and finally found one. When I arrived it turns out I can't clear my bounty because my 'notoriety' is not zero. This can take several hours I understand to go down, and does so in an apparently arbitrary and random way.

Basically Frontier I just want my ship back. Yes I am guilty of destroying an NPC that was threatening me but it seems extraordinary to punish me in quite this way. I am basically unable to continue playing the game as I would like for literally hours. I know that PvP was an issue but don't forget to keep the game fun. NPCs are just that, I don't think my Adder pilot is going to be particularly bothered about my lack of scan because he doesn't exist....

Would be interested if this is really what is intended, because to be honest, I would urge a rethink if so.... Interested in other people's views as well, perhaps I deserved it?!!!

Cheers Black Jay.

Yes it's working exactly as intended.

Yes they closed the blow myself up in cheap ships to avoid any penalties in ED exploit.

Yes you deserved it. You committed a crime by firing on an unwanted, or unscanned ship. This crime has not changed at all.

Yes you are intended to be in this predicament as you didn't take the slightest moment to think about what you need to do if you committed any crime let alone murder.

Notoriety is not arbitrary or random. Stay out of the station for 2 hours is the best way to get rid of it. Pad time was supposed to count but not update until you jump. It may be bugged. But no random, arbitrary stuff happening. And again yes you deserved it, because news flash. You could of left before murdering the other ship.

Npc or not doesn't matter. You committed a crime. And the worst of the crimes in murder. So you got the worst of the penalties. Which is wait 2 hours to pay of your bounty. In the meantime you either take your chances where you're wanted, or leave the area. Just like you'll have to leave to the area to pay your bounty.

Instead of blowing yourself up, let sysauth scan you and get your bounty, which should send you to a detention center somewhere, allowing you to pay off and go along your way. You know if your ship is capable of going anywhere.

Bottom line, you have to think and plan for the inevitable or unintended.

No sympathy from here as this all would have been crimes before, and you obviously thought you could just exploit your way out of punishment like you always did before.

 

[GunnerBill]

Yes it's working exactly as intended.

Yes they closed the blow myself up in cheap ships to avoid any penalties in ED exploit.

Yes you deserved it. You committed a crime by firing on an unwanted, or unscanned ship. This crime has not changed at all.

Yes you are intended to be in this predicament as you didn't take the slightest moment to think about what you need to do if you committed any crime let alone murder.

Notoriety is not arbitrary or random. Stay out of the station for 2 hours is the best way to get rid of it. Pad time was supposed to count but not update until you jump. It may be bugged. But no random, arbitrary stuff happening. And again yes you deserved it, because news flash. You could of left before murdering the other ship.

Npc or not doesn't matter. You committed a crime. And the worst of the crimes in murder. So you got the worst of the penalties. Which is wait 2 hours to pay of your bounty. In the meantime you either take your chances where you're wanted, or leave the area. Just like you'll have to leave to the area to pay your bounty.

Instead of blowing yourself up, let sysauth scan you and get your bounty, which should send you to a detention center somewhere, allowing you to pay off and go along your way. You know if your ship is capable of going anywhere.

Bottom line, you have to think and plan for the inevitable or unintended.

No sympathy from here as this all would have been crimes before, and you obviously thought you could just exploit your way out of punishment like you always did before.

I bet you’re fun at parties.

———-

OP if you like the occasional MDK of random NPC’s then you should consider relocating at least some of your ships actually to the IF station.

 

[Commander Makro]

While this might be a great example of blocking an exploit, let's not forget this is supposed to be a game, not a life simulation. Let me throw up a real example that's just happened to me.

I'm out in Ceos/Sothis, repping Fed rank (legally). Running a mission, I'm inderdicted in my Python by some low-life pirate. I engage, because I can definitely take him down; but I'm joined by a pair of system authority contacts, who engage the pirate. I'm safe, because the pirate has already fired on me, so he's now wanted.

What happens next is that one of the system authority contacts flies across my line line of fire and I graze their shields. Great. I get a 400Cr bounty. But they also switche their attention to me, letting the pirate escape. I now have not just two System Authority ships attacking me, but four more have turned up and my shields are boiling away. So I do what any sensible person does, and run. I manage to escape with 70% hull and no shields and jump out of the system.

I jump back later when my shields have regenerated and head to Newholm station. I get in and docked without incident.

BUT

I can't pay my bounty. I can't access any part of the space dock. The nearest IF is 370 light years away. Luckily, my Python has the range and fuel scoop - but I could easily have been doing this in a sidey (small, light and fast, perfect for repping); and without access to the shipyard, I couldn't even get to the IF.

So, IF this is working as intended, then I think the consequences for accidentally hitting a combat participant is unnecessarily harsh. I have to make a 700LY round trip to clear my bounty and resume my activities. In the meantime, I've a "Wanted" status in these two systems. I'm lucky that my ship can make the journey, otherwise I'd be even more out of pocket, I suspect.

In my opinion, the bounty should be generated only if you cause hull damage. If you want to punish people for grazing shields, make a locally payable fine, but this is bloody stupid.

 

[Codger]

As best as I can tell, what happened to you was the intended behavior of the new C&P system. I don't see any bugs there. You committed murder (for whatever reason), got a bounty and notoriety, and voila. Hot ship, no services, IF won't take your money until your notoriety is zero. That's all intended.

The new system is considerably different than the old, and the penalties are harsher. Some feel this is a good thing, some don't, but it is what we have now.

We all have to get used to it.

 

[cmdrblackjay]

Thanks for your views Hevak, you certainly sound like you have a very strong sense of right and wrong, have you thought about a career in traffic enforcement? Only kidding

In my defence, your honour, the NPC in question was about to open fire on me for not giving up my cargo. But hey ho.

Thanks for the tips about sysauth. Noted, will do so immediately, but how is that different from just self destructing? Is one really more exploitative than the other in that situation?

Finally I've never been an exploit expert I'm afraid. I can barely play the game without any of that nuisance TBH. I've nearly 3 weeks playtime over nearly 4 years and in that period have accrued a massive 70000 credits of fines and bounties. Michael Corleone I'm not!! More of a Philip Schofield gone inadvertently off the rails

o7

 

[Hevak]

I bet you’re fun at parties.

———-

OP if you like the occasional MDK of random NPC’s then you should consider relocating at least some of your ships actually to the IF station.

Idk what parties have to do with following the rules of a game? Do you mean because I wouldn't cheat? But since you care so much, no I'm not fun at parties. I fricken hate drunk idiots, just like I hate stupid people in games and on forums. Especially ones that cry about causing their own problems.

While this might be a great example of blocking an exploit, let's not forget this is supposed to be a game, not a life simulation. Let me throw up a real example that's just happened to me.

I'm out in Ceos/Sothis, repping Fed rank (legally). Running a mission, I'm inderdicted in my Python by some low-life pirate. I engage, because I can definitely take him down; but I'm joined by a pair of system authority contacts, who engage the pirate. I'm safe, because the pirate has already fired on me, so he's now wanted.

What happens next is that one of the system authority contacts flies across my line line of fire and I graze their shields. Great. I get a 400Cr bounty. But they also switche their attention to me, letting the pirate escape. I now have not just two System Authority ships attacking me, but four more have turned up and my shields are boiling away. So I do what any sensible person does, and run. I manage to escape with 70% hull and no shields and jump out of the system.

I jump back later when my shields have regenerated and head to Newholm station. I get in and docked without incident.

BUT

I can't pay my bounty. I can't access any part of the space dock. The nearest IF is 370 light years away. Luckily, my Python has the range and fuel scoop - but I could easily have been doing this in a sidey (small, light and fast, perfect for repping); and without access to the shipyard, I couldn't even get to the IF.

So, IF this is working as intended, then I think the consequences for accidentally hitting a combat participant is unnecessarily harsh. I have to make a 700LY round trip to clear my bounty and resume my activities. In the meantime, I've a "Wanted" status in these two systems. I'm lucky that my ship can make the journey, otherwise I'd be even more out of pocket, I suspect.

In my opinion, the bounty should be generated only if you cause hull damage. If you want to punish people for grazing shields, make a locally payable fine, but this is bloody stupid.

So think ahead? It's really not that hard it takes a fraction of the supposed 10% we all use. And it's really weird that in 4 days of res sites, beacons and assassinating I have not had any FF bounties I didn't earn on my own. Maybe idk avoid it, or plan ahead if you don't care enough to. It took me a whole 12 mins to go pay off and get back to my res site with my bounty. But I planned ahead, guess what my high wake emergency target was? Hint l.o.w. S.e.c.u.r.i.t.y

 

[Grievstar]

I can't pay my bounty. I can't access any part of the space dock. The nearest IF is 370 light years away. Luckily, my Python has the range and fuel scoop - but I could easily have been doing this in a sidey (small, light and fast, perfect for repping); and without access to the shipyard, I couldn't even get to the IF.

Robigo has an IF and is only 60LY away...

 

[CMDR Beni Stingray]

People wanted harsher C&P -> People got harsher C&P -> Working as intended!

Oh man i really love this kind of threads, such good reads

 

[Drelthar]

Working as intended, though they are changing it so that you no longer need to scan ships, before opening fire, so long as they ARE wanted, it will all be fine.

But, you could also have gone to any anarchy station with a shipyard, transferred your asp over and carried on. Or, you could have gone to any anarchy sstation and bought a new ship, or any station your not wanted in, which has any of your ships in it, and grabbed your ship.

The wanted status is of your ship (but self destruction doesn't clear it, you need to get scanned by the cops, then be killed, placed into a prison ship, and pay off your bounty) it is also tied to the specific jurisdiction your in.

There's a lot of options.

 

[cmdrblackjay]

Working as intended, though they are changing it so that you no longer need to scan ships, before opening fire, so long as they ARE wanted, it will all be fine.

But, you could also have gone to any anarchy station with a shipyard, transferred your asp over and carried on. Or, you could have gone to any anarchy sstation and bought a new ship, or any station your not wanted in, which has any of your ships in it, and grabbed your ship.

The wanted status is of your ship (but self destruction doesn't clear it, you need to get scanned by the cops, then be killed, placed into a prison ship, and pay off your bounty) it is also tied to the specific jurisdiction your in.

There's a lot of options.

Great, that's helpful and hadn't thought of the anarchy idea!!

And as people say, it might just take a bit of getting used to.

Cheers Cmdr

 

[Hevak]

Great, that's helpful and hadn't thought of the anarchy idea!!

And as people say, it might just take a bit of getting used to.

Cheers Cmdr

It does, but all it really takes is just a little forethought. Before you go bounty hunting, or murdering, just find a low sec or anarchy nearby and make note of the the system. Make sure your ship can go there in its current configuration or else add whatever is need to make it get there, or just change to a different ship that can.

Or you are free to decide you don't care and just let sys auth or random npc scan you and kill you and then pay off. Though you may get sent a bit far away from where you are currently depending where the detention center is. Never been to one but I've heard they have full outfitting and shipyards for transfers.

Also keep in mind any hot ship you transfer out of stays hot and has an extra charge to send it to any system it's not wanted in. And never remove hot modules from your hot ship right now as you will get hit harder with paying off its been reported. Just pay off at an IF first.

 

[Commander Makro]

So think ahead? It's really not that hard it takes a fraction of the supposed 10% we all use. And it's really weird that in 4 days of res sites, beacons and assassinating I have not had any FF bounties I didn't earn on my own. Maybe idk avoid it, or plan ahead if you don't care enough to. It took me a whole 12 mins to go pay off and get back to my res site with my bounty. But I planned ahead, guess what my high wake emergency target was? Hint l.o.w. S.e.c.u.r.i.t.y

Sorry, I'm not sure which part I was supposed to think ahead of. Was it the bit where another ship crossed my line of fire? Or the bit where I'm way out in the boonies? Or perhaps it was the bit where I got interdicted?

 

[Hevak]

Sorry, I'm not sure which part I was supposed to think ahead of. Was it the bit where another ship crossed my line of fire? Or the bit where I'm way out in the boonies? Or perhaps it was the bit where I got interdicted?

To the potential issues you brought up in your post? All of them.

Stop firing when ships get close to flying in front or you're worried about hitting them. You have several visuals cues.

Don't go to the boonies with a ship that can't get out. Or can't make it somewhere to pay off. Yes yours could, but you like to throw in the poor little noobs argument to help your complaint. So that's what I'm referring to.

And when you get interdicted, for now, don't assume they are wanted and you can unload on them. Scan them first and be sure.

Or else find some other reason why I do the exact same activities and don't have problems with FF bounties?

An IF will be or *should* be found in every low sec, or anarchy systems with a station.

So yeah just think ahead and all those potential problems, even for noobs can be avoided.

I'm really sorry it's hurts people's fragile minds, egos, or both that I have no sympathy for people who don't take any time to either think, of find things out before picking up and game or new update.

FF can be avoided easily, as I clearly can avoid and I am probably one of the worst pilots in this game. And the penalty can be taken care of easily as well just so long as whoever is playing can think slightly.

 

[Spacecat]

Park the ship and do other stuff until notoriety goes down, then pay it off.

 

[Commander Makro]

To the potential issues you brought up in your post? All of them.

Stop firing when ships get close to flying in front or you're worried about hitting them. You have several visuals cues.

Don't go to the boonies with a ship that can't get out. Or can't make it somewhere to pay off. Yes yours could, but you like to throw in the poor little noobs argument to help your complaint. So that's what I'm referring to.

And when you get interdicted, for now, don't assume they are wanted and you can unload on them. Scan them first and be sure.

Or else find some other reason why I do the exact same activities and don't have problems with FF bounties?

An IF will be or *should* be found in every low sec, or anarchy systems with a station.

So yeah just think ahead and all those potential problems, even for noobs can be avoided.

I'm really sorry it's hurts people's fragile minds, egos, or both that I have no sympathy for people who don't take any time to either think, of find things out before picking up and game or new update.

FF can be avoided easily, as I clearly can avoid and I am probably one of the worst pilots in this game. And the penalty can be taken care of easily as well just so long as whoever is playing can think slightly.

Hmmm. OK. You've made some big assumptions here, dude.

1. Even the best of us don't always spot when some numpty is crossing our path, especially in a fast paced, combat environment. It doesn't happen often, and before the new C&P mods it was annoying, but OK. I guess, you're just lucky it's not happened to you so far. I think in 4 weeks 2 days of game time it's happened maybe 5 or six times. It happens to us all from time to time.

2. I got to the Boonies in a 30ly rated Python, dude. Sothis and Ceos are 9ly apart. I don't need to use the range of my Python to rep Fed rank. So had I bought a cheap sidey to do that, I would have been stuffed. That's not a noob's argument, it's a statement of fact.

3. The interdictor fired on me first. He'd been scanned. He was wanted. I didn't get a bounty for attacking him.

4. Dunno why you don't have the same issues, maybe you've just been lucky. In nearly 2,000 kills, it's happened maybe 5 or 6 times.

5. Someone else posted that Robigo has an IF at *only* 60LY away. Yeah, just two jumps for my Python, but still seems a little excessive for an accidental shield graze.

One last thing - I'm definitely not fragile. I'm simply offering up my opinion that I think this particular part of the Crime and Punishment spectrum is disproportionately harsh for the crime committed. If you don't agree, that's fine. There's room for both opinions, however, I don't think your advice to "think ahead" or "think clearly" is entirely useful, or appropriate.

 

[GunnerBill]

Like I said: ‘fun at parties’ .

 

[Hevak]

Hmmm. OK. You've made some big assumptions here, dude.

1. Even the best of us don't always spot when some numpty is crossing our path, especially in a fast paced, combat environment. It doesn't happen often, and before the new C&P mods it was annoying, but OK. I guess, you're just lucky it's not happened to you so far. I think in 4 weeks 2 days of game time it's happened maybe 5 or six times. It happens to us all from time to time.

2. I got to the Boonies in a 30ly rated Python, dude. Sothis and Ceos are 9ly apart. I don't need to use the range of my Python to rep Fed rank. So had I bought a cheap sidey to do that, I would have been stuffed. That's not a noob's argument, it's a statement of fact.

3. The interdictor fired on me first. He'd been scanned. He was wanted. I didn't get a bounty for attacking him.

4. Dunno why you don't have the same issues, maybe you've just been lucky. In nearly 2,000 kills, it's happened maybe 5 or 6 times.

5. Someone else posted that Robigo has an IF at *only* 60LY away. Yeah, just two jumps for my Python, but still seems a little excessive for an accidental shield graze.

One last thing - I'm definitely not fragile. I'm simply offering up my opinion that I think this particular part of the Crime and Punishment spectrum is disproportionately harsh for the crime committed. If you don't agree, that's fine. There's room for both opinions, however, I don't think your advice to "think ahead" or "think clearly" is entirely useful, or appropriate.

Round and round,

And I just said it wasn't an issue at all if people just think and adapt or you know just change with the changes a little.

1. And even the worse of us don't spot when they do. And I never said I don't get FF I said I don't have problems with it. And yes it is easily avoided in most cases even fast paced ones. Unless having like 10 authority ships and a wing of 3 wanted, amongst the other traffic, isn't considered that for you. But you have your sensor view, you have the ships themselves with thrusters and boxes around untargeted ships. It's your fault either way if you get FF and it's easily dealt with if you think ahead.

2. And if you want to take that, honestly stupid, chance then you pay the price. The new system does not work that way. If you're going to go to the boonies and transfer a ship in that can't get out then deal with it. Noob or not. Fact or not. You don't need to bring noobs into it to bolster your complaint, because it doesn't. And again just think ahead or else deal with it. It's easily avoided. But yeah why change your ships outfitting or anything right, just cry over a new system being to hard.

3. If you could read I said for the potential issues, which is being discussed. Or why else did you bring being interdicted up?

4. Here is why I don't have the same issues. When I was doing ceos/sothis, which oddly enough is in the boonies and 9lyrs apart for me too, I wasn't being stupid. I made sure I could get out and get to where I needed to pay my bounties. I mean how hard is to to sort by security and then find a system with a station a player can land their ship at? I, unlike other apparently, take responsibility for my actions in the game.

5. My crappy corvette has a bad jump range. Unengineered. It took me two jumps the other night to clear my FF bounty. It took a whole 12 mins to go pay off, restock, refuel, repair and get back to the res site. So yeah it's barely more time then flying one jump away and waiting 6 or 8 mins or whatever so you can just ignore you crimes. It's not anywhere near excessive, it's a minor annoyance, but again only if you think ahead.

And yes think ahead is entirely helpful. You can avoid all the problems with c&p by doing just that. I'm just simply offering up my opinion that it's not disproportionally harsh because it can all be avoided with a very little trouble and thinking. Except no one here seems to want to. So you can keep running around letting it bother you because it's so harsh, or take a negligible amount of time and effort and never have a problem at all.

All the "problems" you mention are easily avoided completely

 

[Commander Makro]

Round and round,

And I just said it wasn't an issue at all if people just think and adapt or you know just change with the changes a little.

1. And even the worse of us don't spot when they do. And I never said I don't get FF I said I don't have problems with it. And yes it is easily avoided in most cases even fast paced ones. Unless having like 10 authority ships and a wing of 3 wanted, amongst the other traffic, isn't considered that for you. But you have your sensor view, you have the ships themselves with thrusters and boxes around untargeted ships. It's your fault either way if you get FF and it's easily dealt with if you think ahead.

2. And if you want to take that, honestly stupid, chance then you pay the price. The new system does not work that way. If you're going to go to the boonies and transfer a ship in that can't get out then deal with it. Noob or not. Fact or not. You don't need to bring noobs into it to bolster your complaint, because it doesn't. And again just think ahead or else deal with it. It's easily avoided. But yeah why change your ships outfitting or anything right, just cry over a new system being to hard.

3. If you could read I said for the potential issues, which is being discussed. Or why else did you bring being interdicted up?

4. Here is why I don't have the same issues. When I was doing ceos/sothis, which oddly enough is in the boonies and 9lyrs apart for me too, I wasn't being stupid. I made sure I could get out and get to where I needed to pay my bounties. I mean how hard is to to sort by security and then find a system with a station a player can land their ship at? I, unlike other apparently, take responsibility for my actions in the game.

5. My crappy corvette has a bad jump range. Unengineered. It took me two jumps the other night to clear my FF bounty. It took a whole 12 mins to go pay off, restock, refuel, repair and get back to the res site. So yeah it's barely more time then flying one jump away and waiting 6 or 8 mins or whatever so you can just ignore you crimes. It's not anywhere near excessive, it's a minor annoyance, but again only if you think ahead.

And yes think ahead is entirely helpful. You can avoid all the problems with c&p by doing just that. I'm just simply offering up my opinion that it's not disproportionally harsh because it can all be avoided with a very little trouble and thinking. Except no one here seems to want to. So you can keep running around letting it bother you because it's so harsh, or take a negligible amount of time and effort and never have a problem at all.

All the "problems" you mention are easily avoided completely

OK dude, you're making personal insults now. "If you could read..."

I had hoped that we could have a civilised, adult exchange of views, but it seems not to be headed that way.

I've said there's room for all opinions, and while I appreciate your view, you haven't convinced me that my opinion needs to change. I'm not interested in trading insults, or oneupmanship, so I'll leave my opinion stated in previous posts and call an end to the matter.

 

[Hevak]

OK dude, you're making personal insults now. "If you could read..."

I had hoped that we could have a civilised, adult exchange of views, but it seems not to be headed that way.

I've said there's room for all opinions, and while I appreciate your view, you haven't convinced me that my opinion needs to change. I'm not interested in trading insults, or oneupmanship, so I'll leave my opinion stated in previous posts and call an end to the matter.

No insult. Only you make it such. I'm not insulted by the fun at parties comment. It's some random schmuck in the Internet why should it insult me? You know sticks & stones and all that. I just respond in like fashion. And I'm not into this PC/ you can't say that culture. If it offends you then that is on you not me. You clearly made up your own stuff as I never said I don't get FF bounties. I said I don't have a problem with FF issues, maybe don't put words in people's mouths, or posts.

And I was never trying to change your opinion. I just countered your argument, and I did so clearly, and well, with facts. All it takes is a little thinking now. I,knew I wouldn't change your mind, you're clearly set it your ways as evidenced by your complaints and not willing to change. It's very clear here. So I'm going to continue having no issues with the new systems, changes or not, Nerfs or not, and you can continue letting it cause you problems. No skin off my hide either way. [big grin]