Anyone wonder that there is one significant lack of a specific desert foliage - cactus in the first place.
I hope cactus could be added
I hope cactus could be added
Cactus
- Thread starter cheuk18me94
- Start date
I agree with this assessment, foliage in general while one of the most exceptional areas of this game is also one of the most lacking. If we set the subject of the animals aside, since that is a very different topic. When we review the game's scenery, with the architectural pieces provided, we can pretty much built anything and everything, the options are endless, and this is coming from someone who still wants many more pieces and objects to be added to the game. The same can not be said of foliage, it is quite limited once we narrow it down to a specific biome. Now if you were to take a step further and go into specific geographic regions then the choices go from extremely limited to non existent. Desert foliage and every other type of foliage would be highly appreciated in this game as it elevates the realism aspect that sometimes is so hard to find, when there is no suitable scenery available.
I disagree, it is somewhat puzzling that we somehow always manage to be at completely different ends of the spectrum, lol, but hey it happens right? So here is what I will agree with you on, if we look at the current desert lineup found within the game, and considering that deserts do not hold the number of species that other biomes do, I will say that the numbers are not disproportional. This however is a very superficial analysis and it does not fairly answer the original question by Cheuk18me94.
If we take a closer look what we find is that the game has a general lack of foliage scenery, in comparison to other simulation games it is superior in every way, but when we consider that it is Zoo simulation game, and what that actually means, then we have to arrive at the conclusion that plants second to animals are of great importance. Now the foliage that we do have is quite exceptional, top notch work, especially their latest inclusions, it seems that with a very few exceptions that were just transferred from Planet Coaster, the level of detail is just outstanding. This would explain why so many of us want more of them, however is behind the modeling and texture of this foliage is exceptionally talented.
But going back to the specific subject of Deserts, it really depends on which desert environment you are trying to recreate. The game's Desert foliage selection as it stands focuses heavily on North American flora. This is quite interesting since, there are hardly any North American native desert species found in the game, unless you count the Gila Monster exhibit. If you are trying to construct Desert theme areas found in lets say, Africa or Australia (why would you at this point) it becomes an extremely poor selection. In the last few days I started work on an experimental North African Theme area, nothing much, just playing around with a few ideas, but during this time i did realize that the African flora selection in general in comparison to the animals found within the game is very thin. As a consequence of this, it is very difficult to create realistic theme areas that do not border into fantasy. We are then faced with the need to create many new species of plants from existing game foliage, or become very repetitive with the existing foliage, both not ideal situations.
My position on this is mostly skewed by the fact that I try and only use foliage that can grow in the biome in which I am building. Most often this is the temperate biome, so I tend to stick to temperate/taiga foliage throughout the zoo unless I'm going into climate-controlled habitats (tropical house, desert house, things like that). So I suppose I don't feel the effects of a lack of foliage as much as others.
My main wish for foliage is more 'broken' trees like the broken cherry blossom. That sort of thing is wonderful for building realistic climbing enclosures such as for the great apes, where real zoos rarely use live foliage due to the destructive nature of those species. With that in mind, I guess I'm just not especially bothered by the lack of lush foliage since it isn't something I use too heavily anyway. I can't upload images myself, as they always seem to be too large and I'm far too lazy to go about resizing things, but as an example my current capuchin habitat is full of logs, ropes, rocks, and the broken cherry blossom tree, with a singular common ash in the centre as a sort of 'feature' plant (I find the common ash looks sufficiently tropical that it might be the kind of thing a real zoo would use to substitute a tropical tree in a temperate climate, plus it's climbable). As another example, I use the sugar maple in place of the river bush willow for my African section, and the Scots pine in place of acacia trees since it looks sufficiently 'African' enough to fake it.
I will sometimes use the baobab, but in my head it's an artificial structure (many zoos do this, too) acting more like a 'weenie' than a piece of foliage.
In any event, as always, I never actually object to new content. I like the new foliage we got in 1.2 and the South America Pack (though, I do wish there was a non-mossy version of that neat tropical log we got, that thing is cool but I'd like to be able to use it in non-tropical habitats), so whatever else they add will undoubtedly please me, even if I don't have many opportunities to use it in the way I like to play.
I understand your point, as is not an area you have fully explored yet. I can say the same about the temperate biome, I have not quite explored the limits of what can be done there either. I do agree with you that tree sections in the form of branches/tree trunks/stumps and even complete trees without leaves that can simulate fallen trees that zoos often use is desperately need it. I started a whole foliage thread a while back and went into great detail of what the game needed as far as foliage, and this one was definitely an area of focus. As you well said, within many zoo exhibits this is the scenery that you normally will find in abundance, and the game has an incredibly limited variety of it. Would love to have a ton of this stuff, I truly wonder if the developers of the game will ever go back and revisit not the themes but the basic variety of props needed to make realistic zoos that are currently missing in the game. Exhibits in the game would benefit so much from this stuff, and it might not be particularly a project that ties up the whole team. Our best chance to get this items would be in my opinion, October around the Pagan holiday. From watching and analyzing what this company has done in the past, thy seem to pay attention to holidays and so on, so we might get a spooky zoo theme (God I hope not) that might have some of this content. My problem with stuff that is associated with a specific holiday, is that it is such a great waste when looking at the big picture, an example is the arctic pack and all the Christmas decorations, it does not serve a general purpose in the game.
So many possibilities if some of these beauties would be added to the game, currently the Strangler Fig roots we received have been one of my favorite inclusions in the game, I have created countless blueprints out of them. My only regret is that more sections were not added, particularly branches with light foliage on them and a few more structures that can be used to create trunks. While i love the fallen moss tree, a variation without the moss would have been beneficial as well.
And let us not forget while we are having this conversation that along with branches/dead trees/stumps and trunks, fallen leaves batches, dead palm tree trunks, dead palm leaves, dead grass and everything in between would be highly welcomed. I have yet to see anyone try making a realistic looking zoo in the fall, and my best guess is that there is very little that can be used here. That is truly a shame because, the tundra map when covered in snow is stunning. And the building pieces currently available allow for the creation of a fantastic zoo, just without any scenery available.
Getting back to the topic of Deserts and the lack of variety of foliage available, we might get some additional desert scenery in the summer, as a new DLC comes in. Australia could bring the iconic red rocks and some much needed flora from that part of the world. The problem here is that taking into consideration that Frontier just released the biggest possibility of plants for the game with South America, and you all saw what we got, just a handful of them, Im not sure that it would go any different in the future. As I said once you get into really looking at plants by specific regions it is impossible to build realistic habitats or theme areas based on scenery. For the untrained eye, they might look realistic but you have spent some time around plants it is far from it.
I tried building a collection of planters for this North African section I was working on, and at the end gave up on it, since I was very displaced with the level of realism that i could obtain based on the available plant species. In the last picture you can observe what in front of the main restaurant, where i was able to create with the available pieces some fantastic interiors, was supposed to be an intricate desert garden that represented the bio diversity of the North African desert. I would have been better off building a North American Desert theme area, but then I would have ran into another problem, not a single species with the exception of the Gila Monster to inhabit it. So at the end, it is an incomplete game that is still in the making.
I tried building a collection of planters for this North African section I was working on, and at the end gave up on it, since I was very displaced with the level of realism that i could obtain based on the available plant species. In the last picture you can observe what in front of the main restaurant, where i was able to create with the available pieces some fantastic interiors, was supposed to be an intricate desert garden that represented the bio diversity of the North African desert. I would have been better off building a North American Desert theme area, but then I would have ran into another problem, not a single species with the exception of the Gila Monster to inhabit it. So at the end, it is an incomplete game that is still in the making.
@Danny_zoo
To avoid quoting all your posts, I'll just tag you - indeed, that is the sort of material I'm talking about exactly. I have seen some people fake a lot of it using the African branches and the Planet Zoo Log (which we also need more of, and climbable versions), but for those of us less inclined to spend an hour making the perfect fake tree, more broken foliage would be great.
I must admit, however, that I'm not at all sure how to use the strangler fig roots creatively. None of the pieces seem to fit together for me. Do you know of any tutorials or examples? Do you have any of your own? I'd love to see them, as I've heard this mentioned before and would like to get in on that.
To avoid quoting all your posts, I'll just tag you - indeed, that is the sort of material I'm talking about exactly. I have seen some people fake a lot of it using the African branches and the Planet Zoo Log (which we also need more of, and climbable versions), but for those of us less inclined to spend an hour making the perfect fake tree, more broken foliage would be great.
I must admit, however, that I'm not at all sure how to use the strangler fig roots creatively. None of the pieces seem to fit together for me. Do you know of any tutorials or examples? Do you have any of your own? I'd love to see them, as I've heard this mentioned before and would like to get in on that.
While researching for my own Zoo I found out that the River Bush Willow can survive the Winter in the temperate Biome (real Winter not only the - 2°C we get in the Game) so I started to use the Tree in my new African Savanah Area and it looks beautiful
I do also use Acacias (the big ones) in my African Area because they can survive a few °C under 0. I think they couldn't survive the Winter on their own. In my Headcanon the Staff Members place some kind of fleece over it to help it to survive the Winter. I think that would be the same way a real Zoo would do this. I do also know how it's possible to let Banana Plants survive the Winter so I do have one outside in my Zoo near the Hippo Enclosure.
I wish someone would make a List of Plants that could survive in the Temperate Biome
I think a Halloween-Theme could work relatively good in a Zoo Game without making it weird. There could be one or two new Spider Species, a Option to let Education Boards (the ones that display Informations about Deforestation and similar Stuff) display Informations about Bats, a Pumpkin Food-Enrichment-Item for Herbivores, Spider Webs as Decorations (could be for example used in Backstage-Buildings for example if you build a big Barn or something similar as a Storage Building) and of course the Trees you've mentioned.
I do also agree that Fallen Leaves should be in the Game. I was so excited when I heard that there will be Leaf-Bedding in the Game because I expected something like the Leaves on one of your Pictures but now I only use it in my tropical Zoo because I think that they look way too tropical to use them in a temperate Zoo
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I completely understand your point about not having or wanting to spend the time building custom trees out of a limited amount of branch sections. But as of right now, that is all we have. As you probably noticed, I do love creating landscape designs and custom trees, and I have to admit that in part I want all of the above reference material just to have a realistic variety of textures and continue creating new foliage not currently found within the game.
To your second point, in reference to assisting you with the usage of the strangler fig roots, I would gladly prepare a detailed tutorial for you. During my professional career I have crafted a great number of strangler fig species, both in miniature and life size. I will attach a couple of very old pics of one very large Banyan tree that I was very proud to work on, it now resides in a museum. I can tell you that for what I have been able to appreciate thus far, it is the most underrated scenery in the game. I have not seen anyone yet on YouTube or any other platform properly use them and it is a shame, since the possibilities are endless. I have created 172 strangler figs representing 24 species this far, and hundreds of blueprints of just sections of trees to make it easier when constructing individual trees. It is a shame that no one in Frontier created a tutorial for players to understand what they were actually getting, because the sections and trees are not being properly use as far as i can tell. The Planet Zoo artist in charge of creating the foliage did a magnificent job with this. In any case I will try making the tutorial as detail as possible. I will create a separate thread for it, since I do not want to take away from the original message of this post.
Urufu1997, I will clarify my previous statement, since my perspective could be misleading. I'm not opposed to Frontier adding Christmas, Halloween and any other Holiday decorative or commemorative props to the game if it something that the vast majority of players care about. My issue is that, since as we all know the amount of content that can be released in every pack is limited, every single item comes in place of hundreds or thousands of other possibilities that could have been added. The game as it stands could benefit from a countless amount of items that are in direct relation to zoos currently missing from the game. I can find a use for almost anything that frontier creates, and I say almost, because I'm still having a hard time even understanding what i'm supposed to do with the Christmas decorations within the game, other than decorating a zoo for Christmas.
In any case, if we had already a significant number of the items we need to built realistic zoo simulations, back stage area props, a greater variety of enrichment items, natural building materials often used in zoos, scrap materials, vending machines, food carts/stations and specific food items for shops, toys that have a direct relation to what you would find in zoos, so we can finally build realistic gift shops, zoo specific decoration and scenery, the likes of more topiaries, statues, planters, banner styles, support structures, and the list goes endlessly on, then sure by all means add some spider webs, pumpkins, and even a scarecrow.
Again this is not to say that a fall DLC is a bad idea, on the contrary. My vision of it, if I was a part of the designing team would be very different, I would still give you those animals you requested, a bat exhibit or even the Greater Indian Fruit Bat as an habitat animal (how cool would that be) However my idea of a Fall DLC would have a focus on foliage and scenery that is currently missing from the game representing that iconic season. A large variety of what you saw above, several different selections of ground cover (fallen leaves, branches, etc) Imagine being able to cover the sides of walkways with beautifully textured fallen leaves, that not only rest here, but on top of rocks, water areas and often covering complete roof sections of buildings and exhibits. We could still benefit from old world decorative building pieces and objects, old bronze and copper fountain sections that have faded with time, a bigger selection of iron fence decorative styles that can be use to illustrate the age and historical importance of older zoos. All of this can look worn down, used, dark, even spooky if you want to call so, but at the end relevant to zoos.
For a perfect example of what could be added instead of a theme focusing on a one day holiday I would make reference of world class zoos that still offer historical monuments and architecture within their grounds, The Bronx Zoo, The Saint Louis Zoo, The Philadelphia Zoo, The Berlin Zoological Gardens, Zoo Antwerp, Zoo Vienna even Frontier's own The London Zoo. The list is endless, modern and world class zoological institutions that offer a look at the past and their history thru monuments and the wear and tear found within areas of their grounds.
I would even include a new old world theme that adds a more wore down element to the pieces, or maybe it is time for a North American DLC that features many of the standard architectural and decorative elements found in zoos, in short there are a million possibilities. But as I have already come to understand, the vast majority of players of this incredible game have not been around zoos their entire life, or devoted all of their time and passion to their creation for decades before this game was even a thought. I will leave it at that, and I do apologize if all of this reads as the rants of a lunatic, as another member in this forum once said to me, written words sometimes could be misleading. I'm just extremely passionate about the game and all things related to zoo planning, design and construction, it has been my life's purpose.
I'm not sure an October DLC would really have too much focus on Halloween anyway - the free update might include a few bits and pieces relevant to the holiday, but the DLC will likely be themed to whatever continent it is representing (my money is still on Australia, which, like New Zealand, doesn't place any kind of cultural importance on Halloween to the extent of the Americans).
I'm not so sure NZFanatic, if we analyze the pattern of DLCs it seems Frontier does have a plan in place. Each DLC seems to favor the season or time of the year when it is release. Examples, the Arctic pack came in December, as it makes perfect sense. Then as temperatures start warming up during spring, one of the Frontier managers tweeds that she is feeling hot, and a South American DLC that heavily favors a tropical forest setting comes alone. As the game seems to be following the footsteps of Planet Coaster, the next major update/DLC pack will take place in July. Now that is the heart of the summer, and likely the time when an Oceania DLC pack is released. It has been highly anticipated by many thru many forums and platforms, some of the species here are iconic ambassadors in zoos the world over, so it would make perfect sense that Frontier heads here next. The summer is associated with high temperatures, heat, desert etc, all of this would play perfectly for Frontier as they could focus on the iconic The Red Centre. This region is what comes to millions if not billions of minds whenever the Australian Outback is mentioned. Granted we know that Australia and Oceania as a whole is much more than that, it is a world of its own. But as we do know, content is limited, and I do not want to sound repetitive, so I will leave it at that.
There is always the possibility that we do not get Oceania/Australia in the summer, and we end up with a DLC that further explores the African Continent or specifically focuses on Deserts, this is all possible. A far out idea, highly unlikely is that the summer as it also relates to water, brings the highly talked about aquatic mechanics and animals to Planet Zoo, this is highly unlikely and I would assume that if it happens it would not take place until 2021. In addition if we do not get Oceania/Australia in the summer, to think that it will come in the fall does not fit the Frontier pattern. I would put all of my eggs on a North American or European DLC during the fall, since these are two continents that lack extensive animal representation within the game.
I'd just like to point out that the PlanCo holiday pieces ended up being fantastic for use as clutter in interiors or to bash together to make things like ketchup dispensers for restaurants, food for carts out in the park, etc
I understand, and a good point, imagination is most cases the only limitation in this game. A use can always be found for each DLC entry, even if its original purpose has to be completely altered. But my point is that every piece comes at the expense of many others not being created. One holiday theme its fine i suppose, but if around every significant holiday the bulk of the theme were to be created around a one day holiday, then that would be in my opinion a total waste of space. There is much in the way of basic zoo related pieces that we are still missing in this game, and that should really take priority over holiday decorative pieces.
If nothing else, the original threat refers to that player's unhappiness with the current desert foliage selection. I pointed out that all foliage selections are currently light on content, if we are to look at it from a realistic zoo design and construction aspect. Take any zoo, and look at how many buildings, themes etc it holds, then compare that to plant species, there is really no comparison. The landscape architecture very often dictates the story. I have been a part of many real life development projects that focused on heavy themed zoo exhibits, some were richer on architecture compared to others, mostly depending on the project's budget and specific needs of the client. But all of them, every single one focused on landscape to enhance the immersion of visitors within the recreated theme. So I stand on my position, that an October DLC that focuses on fall scenery items that can have a multitude of uses year around would be more beneficial to players, than spider webs, Halloween pumpkins, spooky scenery, graves, tombs, scarecrows and the likes. All of it could just be an over reaction on my part of what Frontier would indeed release (if we even get one) in October. But since there is quite sometime until then, it is much more important to debate and voice our opinions at a time when adjustments can still be made. We had a saying in zoo planning and design, "nip it in the bud"
I see what you're saying and I do agree we could use more foliage variety. Especially in Franchise mode where you're trying to keep your animals happy, some biome+continent combos (that actually have animals, not like "African Tundra") have a tree, a bush, and a flower and nothing else.