Ships Can anyone critique my Alliance Challenger PvE combat build?

[Branithar]

I've been experimenting with a few ships, normally sticking with multi-cannons and lasers, and I've had good luck with the Challenger in HazRES and conflict zones. The only time I've spent I've outfitting and tweaking builds to perfection have been exploration ships, so I'm new to combat outfitting & engineering. Can anyone critique this Challenger build? I didn't do anything about engineering the shield generator yet (I'm not sure which one is the most effective), and I'm not sure which laser engineering and experimental effects are any good (but I noticed lasers can deplete the Power Distributor quickly).

https://coriolis.io/outfit/alliance...GVABAFFy5gA7AgAA.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=

 

[Ethaidan]

Sure. Looks, like a good foundation - gimballed beams and multicanons are a tried and true PvE combination, if you're looking for kills/min. vs experimenting with fixed weapons. Personally, I'd make a few changes.

1. With HD/deep plating Reactive armour, your smallest hull reinforcement needs to be G5 thermal/reflective to balance your hull resistances around 40%.

2. I'd drop the AMFU and associated limpet controller and cargo rack - if you're going to run multicanons, then you're going to run out of ammo long before you need to stop and repair inflight.

3. With that SCB, I'd be tempted to make one of your SB HD instead of resistance.

4. Shield engineering, I'd go G5 thermal/hi-cap.

5. Lasers: unless you're interested in the effects on pulse lasers, I'd go with three Beams G5 efficient or long range (depending onnhow your PD holds up) with thermal conduit (or vent & conduit, I use conduits on my C3 beams on my Python, so when I fire off the SCB the damage increase is visible and I've yet to fry myself), then you can leave one pulse with scrambled spectrum.

6. If you do drop the AMFU kit, I'd make one of the 4D modules a HD HRP, then add a 2x 2D MRPs and one 3D Thermal HRP.

Edit: PS even with what you have... PvE will be just fine in that build. I was at the CG hirez this afternoon with my trade Python (gimballed beams & multicannons) which has more shield (G5 Prismatics), but way less hull than your Challenger and I was never in any danger, even flying lazy. In fact, I was reminded of how fast Beams&MC kill in PvE when I winged with a Krait running PAs and Rails (with an SLF). Everytime I zoned in on a ship he was throwing plasma balls at I almost felt bad - he'd land a couple hits, then I'd strip the shield in quick order with 2 3C beams, then he might land a couple more volleys before the 3C + 2X 2C multicannons shredded our enemy. And that was the Condas & Pythons, smaller than that and they were often dead before he lined up his second run.

 

[Bigmaec]

For a PvE (haz res) build I would definitely change a lot:


1) ditch the shield cell, instead go for a g4 thermal resistant fast charge experimental Bi-Weave.

2) ditch all multicannons except one with corrosive experimental, I would go for high cap, you want to apply corrosive to as many targets as possible but not the multi as damage dealer

3) go with as many beams as your distributor can handle, go fixed beam if you can keep time-on-target yourself, otherwise gimbal

4) maximize your resistances to 50% in all categories

5) I went the way to raise shield levels with guardian shield reinforcements in my PvE Chieftain, cause the base level is quite low.

6) For a PvE vessel a high shield is better then a high hull because shields recover, your hull not. ditch one MRP, the repair limpets and as much HRPs as you are confident to survive if your shields drop

7) if you do wing combat (Mobius is great for that, ping my CMDR if you're on PVE Eurasia if you like to wing up), add at least one regeneration and one concordant experimental to your beams, your wingmates will have the same usually (that's why I ditch the SCB)

8) add a kill warrant scanner of the highest possible grade with fast scan modification

9) it's enough to use D rated long range 5 sensors, the range loss is only half a kilometer or so, but definitely enough for a haz res

10) if you have spare optionals, add a collector limpet controller for those sweet mats...

This is my new Chief build over the Weekend:
https://s.orbis.zone/nkv

edit: sounds like a lot of criticism, but a lot is just preference and my fighting style with friends in a wing. your ship is basically fine as it is...

 

[Innocentius]

That looks pretty sweet wing build Bigmaec. I just noticed that you get almost comparable armor and free up one C5 slot from internals (drop HRP) by switching the bulkheads to reactive composite or military G5 heavy duty.
https://coriolis.io/outfit/alliance...fgBdSNR7ggIAAA==.EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=

 

[Innocentius]

I noticed that you have a limpet controller there, but only 4 cargo space. That is a lot of modules used for total of 4 limpets. If you want to keep those repair limpets, just switch the modules around: class 1 controller and class 3 cargo. But otherwise I guess that maybe use those slots for something else instead.

 

[Bigmaec]

That looks pretty sweet wing build Bigmaec. I just noticed that you get almost comparable armor and free up one C5 slot from internals (drop HRP) by switching the bulkheads to reactive composite or military G5 heavy duty.

I decided against the better bulkheads because I want to transfer the ship throughout the bubble, and I hate expenses
Reactive adds 34 million to the base price of 54 million, that's not justified for a ship which shouldn't lose shields anyways...

But principally you are correct, disregarding costs yours would be the better build.

 

[Branithar]

This is my new Chief build over the Weekend:
https://s.orbis.zone/nkv

edit: sounds like a lot of criticism, but a lot is just preference and my fighting style with friends in a wing. your ship is basically fine as it is...

Nah...I don’t mind the criticism. I’m new when it comes to combat outfitting, and I was just sticking stuff in empty slots. I’ve outfitted plenty of exploration ships but it’s easy: the only number that's important is jump range, and add a light shield for planetary landings.

How does the Chieftain compare to the Crusader and Challenger? I bought the Challenger, thinking it would have a ship-launched fighter, but it doesn’t (plus, it’s the slowest of the three, though pretty agile). A lot of people love the Chieftain, the Challenger gets some love, but no one seems to care about the Crusader. I'd assume the Crusader would be a good middle of the road between the Challenger and Chieftain, but is the least agile out of all of them.

What about fixed weapons? I tried switching out my gimballed weapons for fixed, but It took me way longer to kill stuff. I’m using a HOTAS, btw.

 

[Innocentius]

For most people fixed weapons will be a lot worse for pve. It is just so easy to kill with gimballed weapons. And any chaff moments you can use for just maneuvering to a better position and regening some weapon capacitor charge. One of the great things about gimbals is that you can more easily maneuver as you do not have to worry that much about where your ship is pointing compared to the enemy.

I have heard only good things about chieftain and Bigmaec seems to have good experience on one also. I guess it is something like: Chieftain is pretty comparable to FAS and Crusader is close to Federal Gunship?