Can CGs be for EVERYONE ?

[Deleted member 38366]

I'm no fan of "You participated - here's your Gold Medal and badge of honour !" false rewards. They encourage slacking and reward low performance. That's not how it should work.

Exceptional performance/work should be exceptionally rewarded, plain and simple. You want the best stuff? Then work the hardest for it!
If anything, the fundamental issues associated with "farming" and "relog fests" should be taken into consideration - in lieu of fixing the broken Game loops that depend on them.

Since there are Bots and Scripts to automate even the hand-in at a CG Screen, those that do it all manually (the way it should be) are placed at a disadvantage.
Now that's an issue that needs to be addressed and not only for CG-related reasons.

Disclaimer : I haven't grinded a CG since the Great Betrayal of Kaushpoos (FDev screwed that up beyond any repair and didn't even have the dignity to apologize for it), the sole exceptions being the Colonia Project Requests Microresources and Colonia Hydroponics Initiative (only made this rare exception for the sake of Colonia).

 

[Florenus]

It does not necessarily remove since you could keep overlapping it. The more you do the better you are compensated.

How does it not remove the competition for rewards if you get your rewards no matter how others do?
I understand it would still serve the purpose of being Community Goal, but as I said, Frontier likes that competetive grind race part.

I partly agree with goemon, when he suggested getting rid of individual rewards, as they seem to be completely unbalanced (last CG is the best example) and it would be more elegant solution - although probably not many people would care to participate - and rewards are Frontier's way to lure people into playing the game.

 

[Ethaidan]

So, what happens to the core plot aspect of many CGs - ie community only reaches tier 1 all marlonists are caught, tier 2 some escape in a rag tag fleet, tier 3 most main transports escape, etc.

It sounds like you are so focused on the individual rewards that you seem to be willing to discard the entire plot/community aspect.

 

[CMDR Buy Arx]

Exceptional performance/work should be exceptionally rewarded, plain and simple. You want the best stuff? Then work the hardest for it!

Everything wrong with the game in a nutshell. Jack turned out to be the very dullest of boys in the end.

 

[Grasher21]

So, what happens to the core plot aspect of many CGs - ie community only reaches tier 1 all marlonists are caught, tier 2 some escape in a rag tag fleet, tier 3 most main transports escape, etc.

It sounds like you are so focused on the individual rewards that you seem to be willing to discard the entire plot/community aspect.

For you to ask that, then you didn't understand the suggestion.

Going to use your example:
"Tier 1 all marlonists are caught
Tier 2 some escape in a rag tag fleet
Tier 3 most main transports escape"

Just set these CG goals:
2000 Commanders that reach Tier 1 > all marlonists are caught
5000 Commanders that reach Tier 2 > some escape in a rag tag fleet
8000 Commanders that reach Tier 3 > most main transports escape

Individual Rewards:
Every time a Commander reaches Tier 1 they would get 1,000,000 Credits
Every time a Commander reaches Tier 2 they would get 5,000,000 Credits (total of 6,000,000 Credits)
Every time a Commander reaches Tier 3 they would get 8,000,000 Credits (total of 14,000,000 Credits)

This way you could help the CG while also having your own personal objective to keep yourself pushing forward.

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

Hello Commanders o7

Every time there's a CG I automatically exclude myself from being in the Top 25%, definitely excluding myself from Top 10 Commanders because of the effort needed when it comes to repeat the same thing over and over and over again.

I started wondering, why can't CGs be for everyone and maybe even more exciting for the majority (or at least I think it would be more exciting)?

Instead of the current system, what about an example while taking into account this last CG for delivering several commodities:

[SUGGESTION]
Why can't all Commanders have their own thresholds to beat? For instance:

• deliver 500 commodities and you unlock Tier 1
• deliver 1500 commodities and you unlock Tier 2 (in total this would be 2000 commodities)
• deliver 2500 commodities and you unlock Tier 3 (in total this would be 4500 commodities)

This Community Goal would be over when there are 2000 Commanders at Tier 3.

This way every single Commander could have a decent purpose to try and unlock their own Tiers which would be a reflection from their hard work.

Other Commanders that already reached at their top Tiers could overlap by continue delivering commodities and it would "start" from the beginning. If that Commander reached Tier 3 again he would count as 2 Commanders that made it to Tier 3, so 1998 Commanders left for the CG to end.

Their rewards would be doubled as well.

If reaching Tier 3 would give you 500,000,00 Credits, reaching Tier 3 twice would give you 1,000,000,000 Credits.
[END OF SUGGESTION]

Currently, even if you put several hours in the game and did your best to go up in Tiers, you may end up at the top 75% or even top 100% although it was probably your best effort. In other words, all you did was "meaningless".

In my opinion, knowing for a fact that if I repeat the same activity 2 more times will get me the Tier X is way more satisfying than "how long do I need to do this to reach X?" Then again, even if you do reach X, when you have a look at it again you may not be at X at all.

What do you guys think?

why do you exclude yourself automatically, and why should that be our problem?!

If you ever have put "several hours in the game and did your best" but still cant reach top 75%, git gud or try harder
There never was a CG you need 1 hour at all to get into top 75%.

Sry, have to leave to get a life...

 

[Grasher21]

why do you exclude yourself automatically, and why should that be our problem?!

If you ever have put "several hours in the game and did your best" but still cant reach top 75%, git gud or try harder
There never was a CG you need 1 hour at all to get into top 75%.

Sry, have to leave to get a life...

I edited it just for you:

Main concern is:
Currently, even if you put several hours in the game and did your best to go up in Tiers, you may end up at the top 75% or even top 100% although it was probably your best effort. In other words, all you did was "meaningless".

In my opinion, knowing for a fact that if I repeat the same activity 2 more times will get me the Tier X is way more satisfying than "how long do I need to do this to reach X?" Then again, even if you do reach X, when you have a look at it again you may not be at X at all.

 

[AndiBcool]

Hey OP, if you call me no-lifer, i call you stupid.

Take that last CG for exsample, deliver data to starport x/y.

All you did need, was a ship with a better fsd, surface scanner and fuel scoop and the location of the jamson crash site.
Basicly everyone could done it without much problems.

So what i did, i logged in on Sunday and saw the CG was up two for the same thing and i must have already missed the other two.
I did sign up, and did deliver data i already had.
Went to the crashsite ( was only 4 hops with my DBX ) scanned a little and saw what data i got.
then went back to the CG Starport and traded the data i get there easy down to the grade 1 and delivered more data. Delivering and trading took actually more time then gather them.
Went back to Jamson 3 or 4 times and was already in the top 10% and the time it took was maybe 2,5-3,5 hours maybe a little more.
Checked back on monday was dropped to top 25% went to Jamson did deliver more but the CG was almost done and i ended up with top 25% and 2 Bil Credits.
Since i was to late for a 2nd delivery i went to the 2nd CG did sign up and deliverd the stuff there and was in the top 25% with only one delivery, payout was then 300+ Mil.
Yesterday i logged back in and saw the CG was already done, i guess time was up. but was still in top 25% and gotten 600+ Mil.
That was maybe 15-25 Mins of time at the 2nd one for me.

That was so fast and easy with so much cash, it was insane. When i started Elite at release you where happy to gain a few mil per hour, because trading, exploring and bounty hunting where not that profitable.
Even for the 1 Bil you need to get trading Elite you had to play a very long time, today its so fast.

If your not able to earn much money or to get in the higher tier ranks in the CGs, its only because of you.
Try to gather informations before you do something, to be effective. If you dont do it, dont blame other ppl have no life.
The have a live just play smarter.

 

[Florenus]

For you to ask that, then you didn't understand the suggestion.

Going to use your example:
"Tier 1 all marlonists are caught
Tier 2 some escape in a rag tag fleet
Tier 3 most main transports escape"

Just set these CG goals:
2000 Commanders that reach Tier 1 > all marlonists are caught
5000 Commanders that reach Tier 2 > some escape in a rag tag fleet
8000 Commanders that reach Tier 3 > most main transports escape

So when not enough players participate there's no way to fulfill the goal? That's ridiculous.
I don't particularily like current mechanic, because numbers ar arbitrarily chosen - not because f.ex you need a million superconductors to build something, but because someone decided that's the number that might work for an event (and they even change it if they realise it's not good) - your approach is even more artificial, because it requires a number of participants for some reason.

 

[Grasher21]

Hey OP, if you call me no-lifer, i call you stupid.

Take that last CG for exsample, deliver data to starport x/y.

All you did need, was a ship with a better fsd, surface scanner and fuel scoop and the location of the jamson crash site.
Basicly everyone could done it without much problems.

So what i did, i logged in on Sunday and saw the CG was up two for the same thing and i must have already missed the other two.
I did sign up, and did deliver data i already had.
Went to the crashsite ( was only 4 hops with my DBX ) scanned a little and saw what data i got.
then went back to the CG Starport and traded the data i get there easy down to the grade 1 and delivered more data. Delivering and trading took actually more time then gather them.
Went back to Jamson 3 or 4 times and was already in the top 10% and the time it took was maybe 2,5-3,5 hours maybe a little more.
Checked back on monday was dropped to top 25% went to Jamson did deliver more but the CG was almost done and i ended up with top 25% and 2 Bil Credits.
Since i was to late for a 2nd delivery i went to the 2nd CG did sign up and deliverd the stuff there and was in the top 25% with only one delivery, payout was then 300+ Mil.
Yesterday i logged back in and saw the CG was already done, i guess time was up. but was still in top 25% and gotten 600+ Mil.
That was maybe 15-25 Mins of time at the 2nd one for me.

That was so fast and easy with so much cash, it was insane. When i started Elite at release you where happy to gain a few mil per hour, because trading, exploring and bounty hunting where not that profitable.
Even for the 1 Bil you need to get trading Elite you had to play a very long time, today its so fast.

If your not able to earn much money or to get in the higher tier ranks in the CGs, its only because of you.
Try to gather informations before you do something, to be effective. If you dont do it, dont blame other ppl have no life.
The have a live just play smarter.

Sigh... I did try to edit the thread's title but I can't so here we are. No lifers is in no way an attempt of criticizing or attacking anyone that can play the game several hours a day. That's why it has the quotes "no-lifers" because when I started the thread I had no better word to mention those kind of players.

I myself have more than 5000 hours in Elite Dangerous and I got a Fleet Carrier, several engineered ships and a lot billions as my balance. So maybe I could consider myself as "no-lifer"? Happy now? Anyway, you should actually try to understand the whole point of the thread instead of being stuck at the title.

My whole point with this thread is to give a fair chance to those that have way less time to play Elite Dangerous to have a feeling of accomplishment and participation in the CGs. Hence why the individual ranks along with CG ranks.

 

[Grasher21]

So when not enough players participate there's no way to fulfill the goal? That's ridiculous.
I don't particularily like current mechanic, because numbers ar arbitrarily chosen - not because f.ex you need a million superconductors to build something, but because someone decided that's the number that might work for an event (and they even change it if they realise it's not good) - your approach is even more artificial, because it requires a number of participants for some reason.

Well, you do realize that, currently, if not enough players participate in the CG, the few ones that are indeed participating will have a hard time to reach high Tiers in the CG, right?

The principle is exactly the same. One single Commander can reach max tiers individually, and then they can overlap them all over again, meaning they can keep participating in the CG and reach again the max Tier. If he does this 2 times he will be counted as 2 Commanders...

I clearly don't understand how that is ridiculous since it is what we already have. I just proposed a different way that in my opinion would motivate other Commanders to participate.

 

[Florenus]

Well, you do realize that, currently, if not enough players participate in the CG, the few ones that are indeed participating will have a hard time to reach high Tiers in the CG, right?

The principle is exactly the same. One single Commander can reach max tiers individually, and then they can overlap them all over again, meaning they can keep participating in the CG and reach again the max Tier. If he does this 2 times he will be counted as 2 Commanders...

I clearly don't understand how that is ridiculous since it is what we already have. I just proposed a different way that in my opinion would motivate other Commanders to participate.

In your example it is required to have certain number of players to even reach first Tier. Currently I have a chance to do it alone if I'm really determined. Well, maybe not alone, but there's no artificial barrier of participants.

 

[Grasher21]

In your example it is required to have certain number of players to even reach first Tier. Currently I have a chance to do it alone if I'm really determined. Well, maybe not alone, but there's no artificial barrier of participants.

Ok, one more time...

What I am suggesting is to have individual ranks and CG ranks.

Individual Ranks will grant rewards to Commanders that get to them.
CG ranks will grant changes in the Lore

So now on a detailed explanation in a made up example:
CG Ranks List
Tier 1 - 500 Commanders - Result: Faction runs away from system
Tier 2 - 700 Commanders - Result: Faction stays in system
Tier 3 - 1000 Commanders - Result: Faction wins war and kicks other Faction from system

Individual Rank List
Tier 1 - deliver 100 commodities - Reward of 500,000 Credits
Tier 2 - deliver 300 commodities - Reward of 1,000,000 Credits
Tier 3 - deliver 500 commodities - Reward of 3,000,000 Credits
In order to reach Tier 3 you will have to deliver a total of 900 commodities and you will be rewarded in total 4,500,000 Credits.

When that happens you helped the CG and now only 999 Commanders are needed for the Tier 3

Afer this you can REPEAT the process all over again with your individual ranks.
If you reach Individual - Tier 3 rank again, CG is now at 998 Commanders ...


Currently, one single Commander may contribute with 10 Commodities or 10,000 Commodities. The threshold to reach Tier 3 is 500,000 Commodities. So you still need other Commanders to help just as well...

 

[Mallchad]

I don't particularly think an individual reward system would dilute the concept of a Community Goal.
The goal is to fufil a global contribution, not to get into the top 10 commanders.
Yet the reward structure is a moving goalpost, and, depending on the CG could make it nearly impossible to
achieve without no-lifting it, just because of the way it works.

For reference, "no-lifing" is not supposed to cause offence, it's a term used to decsribe the action of playing the
CG for an insane amount of time, every waking hour to reach the highest tiers, and maintain it, because you will
be pushed down as other people compete and contribute.

Oh, and lets ignore the fact that people have a tendancy to find borderless exploits to get to the higher tiers of the CGs,
exploits which are often just genuinely not fun.

I don't think the current system should be entirely replaced, nor do I think the OPs suggestion is the best
in the way it's described, but it would be nice if there were individual goals as a compliment, to incentivise
contributing beyond "I want top 10%", because as I said, its a moving goalpost, and "I might may top 10
commanders but might get pushed out at the last second", doesn't sound very appealing.

And it isn't, because clearly, even people in this threat suggest that you shouldn't even try to get that high,
or maybe not engage with the Community Goal at all, which defeats the spirit of the Community Goal,
it turned an in-game, Lore Related event into a competetion that only a select few can "win", and the rest is just
credit fodder that you touch for a few hours to get top 75% (if you play it at all) and leave it.
I don't think this is leaves Community Goals in the best state.

Which is why I think the concept of individual goal rewards is a good one, especially if its things like, Core
Dynamics Composites for example.
This doesn't have to replace the current system, nor does it have to dilute the concept of a "Community Goal",
the reward is incentive for doing the CG, not the objective of the CG, the reward has become the only objective worth doing,
and if you can't or won't dedicate the time to reach the very high tiers, the CG is no longer worth engaging with, reguardless
of the actual purpose of the CG, because of course, other people will finish it for you right?

Well, that doesn't have to be the case, you could have more incentive for doing more of the CG,
and Frontier have got out of their way to make it more reasonable, things like unlocking double engineered modules.
The only trouble is, of course, it has the very VERY low threshold of top 75%, and putting it higher, on the current system, would be
unreasonable.

 

[Ethaidan]

For you to ask that, then you didn't understand the suggestion.

Going to use your example:
"Tier 1 all marlonists are caught
Tier 2 some escape in a rag tag fleet
Tier 3 most main transports escape"

Just set these CG goals:
2000 Commanders that reach Tier 1 > all marlonists are caught
5000 Commanders that reach Tier 2 > some escape in a rag tag fleet
8000 Commanders that reach Tier 3 > most main transports escape

Individual Rewards:
Every time a Commander reaches Tier 1 they would get 1,000,000 Credits
Every time a Commander reaches Tier 2 they would get 5,000,000 Credits (total of 6,000,000 Credits)
Every time a Commander reaches Tier 3 they would get 8,000,000 Credits (total of 14,000,000 Credits)

This way you could help the CG while also having your own personal objective to keep yourself pushing forward.

No, I do understand, and your suggestion is a simple rearrangement of priorities - from a common community goal, with a healthy but of incentive based competition thrown in, to more emphasis on individual goals with no competition. I don't think it suits the concept of a community goal.

As for your individual tiers... they kind of already exist - 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, 10%, top ten - they're just not static numbers, and give the whole endeavour a feeling of being more alive... or part of a community effort.

The only problem lies with someone setting a goal or wanting to finish in the top X% and being unable to - whether that's down to available time, available ship (large combat for combat CGs, large trade for trade CGs), experience in the game. Quite frankly, that's a Cmdr issue (if they have an issue with not reaching an arbitrary personal CG goal), not a community issue.

I don't reckon many mining Cmdrs set out to Sag A* to build a station at the centre of the galaxy with the sole intent of finishing top 10 - it was about the station. Same for every PP competitive CGs - it's not about finishing somewhere as an individual - it seems to be about making sure the Empire never wins.

Perhaps the latest insane CG rewards have warped the concept by making the payouts for top contributors too desirable? Nerf CGs now!

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

I edited it just for you:

Main concern is:
Currently, even if you put several hours in the game and did your best to go up in Tiers, you may end up at the top 75% or even top 100% although it was probably your best effort. In other words, all you did was "meaningless".

I answer again just for you:

There never was a CG, not even one, where you end in 75 or 100 percent bracket when you put "several hours" in the game.

So you want to have sth changed which works quite well and usually attracts some 10,000 CMDRs the way it is.
7500 of them play for some minutes, and get happily their reward after a week.

Just accept that you are too "dumb" (sry, no idea of a better word, so its in ")

 

[AndiBcool]

Sigh... I did try to edit the thread's title but I can't so here we are. No lifers is in no way an attempt of criticizing or attacking anyone that can play the game several hours a day. That's why it has the quotes "no-lifers" because when I started the thread I had no better word to mention those kind of players.

I myself have more than 5000 hours in Elite Dangerous and I got a Fleet Carrier, several engineered ships and a lot billions as my balance. So maybe I could consider myself as "no-lifer"? Happy now? Anyway, you should actually try to understand the whole point of the thread instead of being stuck at the title.

My whole point with this thread is to give a fair chance to those that have way less time to play Elite Dangerous to have a feeling of accomplishment and participation in the CGs. Hence why the individual ranks along with CG ranks.

Well we had tiers unlocking more or different things in the past.
Setting fixed tiers for commanders, totally removes the competition and will lead that ppl just stop parcipating after they reched the tier they want to be in.
As you can see in my previous post, getting to higher tiers is not difficult or time consuming.

Plus everyone that wont spend much time for CGs, could sign up deliver a little and still get some reward for almost no time spend.
If you want higher rewards you need to parcipate more. To me its totally fair.
If long time players got an advantage, then because they already play longer and have better ships. They should have some advantage because of that over new players.

Looking at the last CG you could get 12 and 7 mil in the 100% tier just for deliver very few data.
and if you did deliver 300 and 5800 at booth you would have gotten 144Mil and 324 Mil and that was not difficult at all.

For that kind of money you can actually compete against older players in the next cg, because of the ships you could buy with that money.
I actually see no reason to change the CGs.
CGs have been always great for new players getting more money with very little effort.

 

[Mallchad]

I answer again just for you:

There never was a CG, not even one, where you end in 75 or 100 percent bracket when you put "several hours" in the game.

So you want to have sth changed which works quite well and usually attracts some 10,000 CMDRs the way it is.
7500 of them play for some minutes, and get happily their reward after a week.

Just accept that you are too "dumb" (sry, no idea of a better word, so its in ")

Dumb is a terrible word for it.

The fact is that due to time, motivation, and time/reward contraints makes it often impossible to engage with a CG beyond 75%,
especially as people push the boundaries into insane numbers.

If you haven't noticed, the gap between the tiers top 75% to 25% is huge.
Which doesn't make for very good gameplay.
For this last CG, the difference between top 50% and top 25% was some 18,000 units of materials.
Maybe, 2 Jameson runs (which is already an exploit in itself),
and more than a solid hour, of just handing in data.
Surely it can be better than this.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Because that's not an community goal - it's an individual one ....

Not really. You could easily conceptualize CGs as 'they succeed when a sufficient number of cmdrs participate above some threshold' rather than the 'lol if you dont exploit relogging for hours'.

 

[Factabulous]

Not really. You could easily conceptualize CGs as 'they succeed when a sufficient number of cmdrs participate above some threshold' rather than the 'lol if you dont exploit relogging for hours'.

But the OP wants to be done in 30 minutes...

Meh to relogging - no-one will care about that when the next CGs start tomorrow. Memories of goldfish around here