Can it be compared to the X series?

Associat0r said:
FD has done a lot of groundwork on the tech for decades

+1 to this

you think that kind of content is growing on trees?
Egosoft worked 7 years on XR, ED is in year 1, don´t know how many people are working on ED but if all of the above is there "within a year" they either have 100+ people working fulltime on ED or your expectations are a bit delusional :rolleyes:

I believe ED has been worked on by Frontier on and off for longer than 1 year.
 
you think that kind of content is growing on trees?
Egosoft worked 7 years on XR, ED is in year 1, don´t know how many people are working on ED but if all of the above is there "within a year" they either have 100+ people working fulltime on ED or your expectations are a bit delusional :rolleyes:

There should be some understanding between different development procedures - all X universe is handcrafted, including star systems. In ED all huge objects in space are generated trough procedures and rules (PG). In result you don't have spend so more time on this. Also ED will use incremental updates method. They are very keen to get basic game as soon as possible, and add additional game play content trough expansions. Still, all what said is true - David seems to be very sure to deliver walking within year of ED release, and also landing on planets. So far ED dev plan seems to be working, and content released rises confidence every day.

It is really hard to compare those numbers if honest - how many man hours Egosoft has actually spent on XR, what their tehniques are, etc. etc. Also remember that David and FD has planned and developed technologies for this game for at least final 8 years. They just got money to kickstart final stage, for which they required more money than they could get from publishers.
 
David seems to be very sure to deliver walking within year of ED release, and also landing on planets.

I can't remember hearing it suggested that both of these would be within 1 year, so I'm kind of with FromHell on this. I'd say one or the other will probably happen, but not both. However, in two years we might be doing all that. And then there'll be the 'Moray' expansion (opening up the deep waters [and methanes, etc.] for gameplay) and lord knows what else to come.
 
I can't remember hearing it suggested that both of these would be within 1 year, so I'm kind of with FromHell on this. I'd say one or the other will probably happen, but not both. However, in two years we might be doing all that. And then there'll be the 'Moray' expansion (opening up the deep waters [and methanes, etc.] for gameplay) and lord knows what else to come.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/15od2s/i_am_david_braben_cocreator_of_elite_creator_of/c7qcl1n

Both will happen, it is all said and done numerous times.

Also then we would get answer like this:
Living planets with NPCs and wildlife:
Sandy: Yes, as part of the planetary landing update
See http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5659

Peter.
 
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There should be some understanding between different development procedures - all X universe is handcrafted, including star systems. In ED all huge objects in space are generated trough procedures and rules (PG). In result you don't have spend so more time on this. .

you know it's kinda funny how some backers here think procedural generation is some magic wand which speeds up development, looks better than handcrafted and only takes 1% of the time and ressources to create. It might work nicely if you need a billion star systems, but "nature and wildlife"? Within a year? Plus, numerous space stations to walk around? :rolleyes: I don't see this happening anytime soon. However let me know when those lifelike procedural space elephants get implemented, can't wait.. :D

btw I don't even count on playing the most basic ED 1.0 release version before Christmas... 2014.
Alpha, maybe in summer
 
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I've not seen or read anything from Frontier where they have given any time frame to expansions. I trust them to do the job and do it well. I have faith.

you know it's kinda funny how some backers here think procedural generation is some magic wand which speeds up development, looks better than handcrafted and only takes 1% of the time and ressources to create.

I've been on this forum for some time and I've not come across any evidence that there are any backers that have stated, thought or suggested that procedural generation only takes 1% of the time and resources to create...
 
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you know it's kinda funny how some backers here think procedural generation is some magic wand which speeds up development, looks better than handcrafted and only takes 1% of the time and ressources to create. It might work nicely if you need a billion star systems, but "nature and wildlife"? Within a year? Plus, numerous space stations to walk around? :rolleyes: I don't see this happening anytime soon. However let me know when those lifelike procedural space elephants get implemented, can't wait.. :D

btw I don't even count on playing the most basic ED 1.0 release version before Christmas... 2014.
Alpha, maybe in summer

It's not a magic wand, but in rights hands, with years of research, it can allow you to make game within that short of time. I am not saying that exactly in year we see both features - for example, it is clear that walking on ships can appear faster than landings - but they will be soon enough.

As I said - we don't have full information for both games to compare. However, it is quite clear that so far ED looks much better imho than XR after seven years of development. That could mean something - professionalism, maybe.
 
Actually , as far as I have understood it's "only" planetary landings that will be implemented within a year after release as a first expansion. Ship/station interiors with the ability to walk around will come in a later expansion and maybe these things will be split up into several modules

As I see it FD will over time be filling in more and more details into the game over the years to come. The first release will give us a galactic "overview" of the game. The first expansion will open up the planets for exploration (maybe just from the ship or possibly with some sort of landbased vehicles), but since you won't be able to walk around as a character you can keep the details on these worlds relatively "low" since you won't be interacting with them that close at this stage. When eventually you will be able to walk around inside your ship and also leave it they will have increased the level of detail further on the stations/planets/cities.

As has been said many times before. The issue with using procedural generation is not generating enviroments. Filling out the entire galaxy with planets that has the same graphical quality as GTAV is "easy". Just to clarify what I mean with this. Let's say you want to create cities throughout the galaxy on every single earthlike world. You could just create one really good looking building and then tell the system to repeat that in a gridlike pattern at certain points on all of these worlds. Done! But as you understand eventhough that building might be beautiful on its own it will still look like crap due too the fact that it is the same building repeating over and over again making all the cities look the same on every single world.

The challenge with procedural generation is not the scale of the gameworld that you want to make. The challange is to make it seem varied enough, so that the player doesn't pick up the "repeating patterns" as easily. So how do you do that then?

Well, if you take the same building but tell the system to randomize it's size, rotation, color and placement (so everything isn't placed in a perfect grid) the cities will already look more alive and real. If you then make a lot of other buildings and put them into the system then eventually the player will stop thinking about the fact that similar buildings are being reused. You could even make a system that create the buildings themself out of smaller buildingblocks so even more variation can be achived. The same technique can of course be applied to everything else in the gameworlds environment.

So the challenge with this game when it comes to realizing the world is to have a system that can simulate the layout of planets, clouds, vegetation, wildlife, cities and interiors of stations among other things. Thankfully this type of tech doesn't really need any graphical assets during it's development. You can quite easily test it out with simple placeholder art. This makes it possible to work on these type of things for a long time between other projects. Something I am quite confident they have been doing over at FD for a very long time. When you then finally decide to go into production you can then create the kind of game assets that the hardware at that point is capable to handle and just plug those into the system. Tada! A fully realized world! ;)

Whoa...that went on a bit longer than I had planned! :D

However, my point with this is that creating all of the planets in the entire galaxy might be roughly the same amount of work as getting a good character system in place in the game. Hopefully they can borrow a lot of code from The Outsider though since that seems to have a lot of the mechanics in place that I envision will make it's way into ED eventually.
 
I can't remember hearing it suggested that both of these would be within 1 year, so I'm kind of with FromHell on this. I'd say one or the other will probably happen, but not both. However, in two years we might be doing all that. And then there'll be the 'Moray' expansion (opening up the deep waters [and methanes, etc.] for gameplay) and lord knows what else to come.

This is taken from Feature Requests Update 8

There are of course some updates that we have already announced will be coming. The most notable and anticipated of these is of course seamless planetary landings. Whilst it wouldn’t be sharing anything new with you to confirm this feature post-launch, I can confirm that we hope to implement it within a year of release, if possible:

Sandy: Definitely yes. Hopefully (barring issues) within the first year post-release
Michael: Yes, we’ll be looking to add landings in updates after the game’s intial release. We’ll provide more details nearer the time.

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5659

So that is correct. Planetary landings (hopefully) within one year post-release.

My guess:

Expansion 1: Planetary Landings (ok, not really a guess since it's already confirmed ;) )
Expansion 2: Moving around inside your ship.
Expansion 3: Getting out of the ship as a Commander in some form. Maybe only on stations to begin with and planets in expansion 4, who knows?

All of these will of course have a whole bunch of new types of gameplay, not just be Museum pieces.
 
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Lestat

Banned
You know it kinda hard to say which is better until both games are out. But watching the videos I did see a few thing in X series. That I did not care for.

Auto level. Basically there is a Horizontal plane in space. I hope that something that can be disabled.

Ship damage. Correct me if I am wrong but other then the Turrets and engines I did not see damage on the large ships in X rebirth unless the ship explodes. Maybe a feature that was disabled

Radar. I did not see a Radar in X rebirth. Or they have it but was not in use.

Space highway. I like the freedom of not having to look for a space highway each time I have to jump to a new area.

The one thing I did like was you are able to move your turret while flying. But I don't think it needed in Elite. Or could be use in larger ships or rear turret.

Note I am just going by the video from Elite and X Rebirth.
 
You know it kinda hard to say which is better until both games are out.But watching the videos I did see a few thing in X series. That I did not care for.

Auto level. Basically there is a Horizontal plane in space. I hope that something that can be disabled.

Ship damage. Correct me if I am wrong but other then the Turrets and engines I did not see damage on the large ships in X rebirth unless the ship explodes. Maybe a feature that was disabled

Radar. I did not see a Radar in X rebirth. Or they have it but was not in use.

Space highway. I like the freedom of not having to look for a space highway each time I have to jump to a new area.

The one thing I did like was you are able to move your turret while flying. But I don't think it needed in Elite. Or could be use in larger ships or rear turret.

Note I am just going by the video from Elite and X Rebirth.

I don't care what peoples opinions are of what game is better, i will form my own, but i don't even intend to favor one over the other. There are 4 upcoming space sims i intend to play, and i have no intention of favoring one over the other in particular, i will play all of them and praise them all for their virtues whilst disregarding their weaknesses. (4 being: ED, Star Citizen, Limit Theory, X Rebirth)

In X: Rebirth, instead of SETA (Time acceleration) they have a flight mode which enables you to fly at incredible speeds at the expanse of eating through your shield and weapon batteries. You wont be reliant on the highways to get everywhere, however the gates from the former games (although they are there) are not functional, but they may become so in a future expansion or DLC, we don't know.

Also if i'm not mistaken i think Elite will use a similar highway system, certain paths where ships can go for increased speed to travel faster between known systems...


The Auto-Level of the plane is probably added for "noob-friendliness" if i know egosoft right you can definitely disable it.

I don't even use the radar in X3, it's crap. But i do use the icons on the edges of my screen which i think x:rebirth will also have, as long as it has that theres no need for a radar, in space since you're not standing on flat terrain it's hard to make a radar which tells you which way to turn your ship to face whatever it is you're looking for. But i'm sure there will be some sort of radar and it just hadn't been implemented yet.

You are not wrong about the ship damage thing, but in past X games you could only damage the ship as a whole and not individual parts, being able to target specific parts, even if it'd only be the turrets and engines is a great improvement, especially for pirates and if for some reason you want to non-lethally deal with something. The only other things i can think of targeting would be cargo hold. Targeting the cockpit/bridge would be overpowered and i wouldn't want to be able to do that unless there were shields specifically for the bridge, and the bridge itself had a lot of HP just on its own.
 
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btw I don't even count on playing the most basic ED 1.0 release version before Christmas... 2014.
Alpha, maybe in summer

LOL Not here to make friends are you?

Seems strange. You make a lot of comments that are unsubstantiated and the game obviously isn't the one you want, which you've already said. What keeps you around?
 
Also if i'm not mistaken i think Elite will use a similar highway system, certain paths where ships can go for increased speed to travel faster between known systems...

There is no such highway thing, in Elite you can freeform speed up and go wherever you want.

The Auto-Level of the plane is probably added for "noob-friendliness" if i know egosoft right you can definitely disable it.

There is no up/down in space, so a thing like this is very wrong.
 
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<SNIP>
As has been said many times before. The issue with using procedural generation is not generating enviroments. Filling out the entire galaxy with planets that has the same graphical quality as GTAV is "easy". Just to clarify what I mean with this. Let's say you want to create cities throughout the galaxy on every single earthlike world. You could just create one really good looking building and then tell the system to repeat that in a gridlike pattern at certain points on all of these worlds. Done! But as you understand eventhough that building might be beautiful on its own it will still look like crap due too the fact that it is the same building repeating over and over again making all the cities look the same on every single world.

The challenge with procedural generation is not the scale of the gameworld that you want to make. The challange is to make it seem varied enough, so that the player doesn't pick up the "repeating patterns" as easily. So how do you do that then?

Well, if you take the same building but tell the system to randomize it's size, rotation, color and placement (so everything isn't placed in a perfect grid) the cities will already look more alive and real. If you then make a lot of other buildings and put them into the system then eventually the player will stop thinking about the fact that similar buildings are being reused. You could even make a system that create the buildings themself out of smaller buildingblocks so even more variation can be achived. The same technique can of course be applied to everything else in the gameworlds environment.<SNIP>

Essentially what he said - the seed information makes all the difference with procedural generation. It's never going to be a case of one building and then a scattergun approach to distribution, it'll be a conditional distribution driven by procedural algorithms using a rich base of seed information.
 

Lestat

Banned
Well Rabcor sometimes understanding what different help players decide what best for them. Not everyone going to be playing all 4 games. The best way to understand each game is point out difference. I am not going X Rebirth is good or bad or better or worse then Elite. Because right now No one knows.


Now Limited Theory kinda reminds me of Star Ruler. As the ship that are kinda Boxy. But that dose not really tell me if the game is good or bad. I did like the star map regeneration so the map is not the same in each new game. Where the Npc controlled multiple ships. Which also Reminds me of Star ruler and the older game Master of Orion. The only main difference You also control your own ship and you tell your NPC fleet what to do. Where Star ruler & Master of Orion You control all your ships. Defeating other Civilizations. Colonization of other planets. From a station.

Star Citizen kinda reminds me of Wing Commander. With more focus on Trading. Now how much will it be like Elite. Like the other games. I don't know.
 
Essentially what he said - the seed information makes all the difference with procedural generation. It's never going to be a case of one building and then a scattergun approach to distribution, it'll be a conditional distribution driven by procedural algorithms using a rich base of seed information.

Actually that's how it was explained in David's TEDx Albertpolis speech. It is recommended to everyone, especially those who thinks PG are "random numbers" :)
 
I played x3 for some time, but i found the menu setup extremely clumsy and not intuitive. Also i had a couple of frustrating moments where you crashed into a ship or get shot down after 40 minutes of traveling between systems on a mission without the possibility of saving. Then you can do all again... cool. Also i am not a big fan of maps only linked by travel hubs (in this case jumpgates): a jumpgate leading to an unknown pirate base... how immersive :) Deinstalled it right away...
 
I played x3 for some time, but i found the menu setup extremely clumsy and not intuitive. Also i had a couple of frustrating moments where you crashed into a ship or get shot down after 40 minutes of traveling between systems on a mission without the possibility of saving. Then you can do all again... cool. Also i am not a big fan of maps only linked by travel hubs (in this case jumpgates): a jumpgate leading to an unknown pirate base... how immersive :) Deinstalled it right away...

I'd agree with the first point, X3:R was a nightmare for imbedded menus and lack of clear explanations, X3:TC I find is better, but clunky would still be a good adjective 'til you customise it and get used to it.

You could save while in space though, you just had to buy salvage insurance in advance. At 3000cr it was fairly expensive initially but soon became a drop in the ocean (my main "character" had over 8 billion credits).

The unknown sectors were only "unknown" to you, the Jumpgates were created (in X Lore) by a pre-human "Creator" race, so in their time it may well have served a totally different role and only became "badlands" in recent history.

I agree though that I don't like "boxes in space" either, it's horribly artificial, particularly as X3 sectors are so small.
 
The ships in Limit Theory are boxy "now"... They will improve, they have had minimal work so far. Quoting LT's forum mod, Gazz:

Graphics Josh would never let Code Josh release the game with the LEGO ships we have now.

Ships haven't received much of love yet in LT's development. But they will soon enough and i do look forward to seeing what they'll be like in the final release.

The sectors in X3 are not small. Go to Aldrin and get bored. The Split sectors next to the teladi are also relatively big.

It's not that the sectors are small, it's that the sectors are relatively void of content and what is in them is usually identical to some other sector you've already been to.
 
The ships in Limit Theory are boxy "now"... They will improve, they have had minimal work so far. Quoting LT's forum mod, Gazz:



Ships haven't received much of love yet in LT's development. But they will soon enough and i do look forward to seeing what they'll be like in the final release.

Glad you pointed that out, I've been wondering whether ships would see much love or if it was "lego" by design. Backed the game but haven't really spent much time on the forums.

The sectors in X3 are not small. Go to Aldrin and get bored. The Split sectors next to the teladi are also relatively big.

True, but even then they are "small" compared to the timescales required to be able to traverse the proposed ED solar systems and galaxy. Even the bigger sectors can be crossed in 10 minutes (unless you're in a Freighter) using SETA.

It's not that the sectors are small, it's that the sectors are relatively void of content and what is in them is usually identical to some other sector you've already been to.

Also true, I do find the lack of variety in X3 as being one of the reasons I don't spend much time sightseeing. About the only interesting things are the complexes you build yourself.
 
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