PvP Can PvP piracy be made engaging/rewarding for both participants - has any game every done it?

[Morbad]

Yeah, this is why i never appreciated his style of piracy. Too agressive. No real roleplay. No sophistication. He didn't even say "Yo ho ho!" How can you respect a pirate who doesn't say "Yo ho ho"?

The aggression is precisely what makes that style plausible to me. Successful robberies depend on a credible show of force, often one that puts the target at an immediate physical disadvantage.

I'm pretty sure Maj was responsible for pushing more than a few players to PG/Solo, and his videos created a very negative imagine for pirates. I would go as far as to say that despite him actually being a pirating pirate, he caused a lot more negative publicity for the PvP pirating cause than many gankers.

Probably true.

Some interesting points, and i guess highlights why it wouldn't work in ED.

Quite a bit of it isn't applicable, but a real economy is something ED should always have had, and better enforcement of rules would help.

Some changes to improve/extend encounter distances and durations as I mentioned in the high-wake thread not that long ago would also likely enable more dynamism for pirates/trader encounters.

Ultimately though, it's hard to have piracy be enjoyable, optional, and make any sense.

Requiring friends to get by is also an issue for many ED players. Plenty of people are just lone wolves, and some people just can't meet up with their friends online. I mean, i'm in a player group, but its rare we can coordinate to meet up and work together. I guess in games like what you describe, lone wolf players are marginalized and perhaps don't get into the game, while those who can group up find it fun and entertaining.

There was considerable herd immunity in Jumpgate, but things were easier with allies.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

MMO with a solo mode.....I understand the stigma of open. But I have been playing in open from day one. The threat makes this game feel alive. In solo.....its just you against the npcs....thats not fun. I am so sad that such a good way to meet people is reduced to the stigma of griefing

 

[Deleted member 110222]

MMO with a solo mode.....I understand the stigma of open. But I have been playing in open from day one. The threat makes this game feel alive. In solo.....its just you against the npcs....thats not fun. I am so sad that such a good way to meet people is reduced to the stigma of griefing

The thing is, a lot of people enjoy only seeing the NPCs.

The whole debacle over the removal of Offline mode is testament to this. A lot of players clearly DID NOT want to play with others. At all. We actually WANTED to be separated from Open players.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

There isn't one.

There also isn't a reason for pirates to press Open, as PvE piracy rewards are much, much bigger.

That's the logic you're playing with.

And yet again we are shown how "all modes are equal" killed another game content.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

And yet again we are shown how "all modes are equal" killed another game content.

Perhaps it's time to accept that your vision for the game isn't the one that counts?

I'm being sincere. Everything you seem to want from a game... This title does the polar opposite. Why does Elite in particular have to give you this content?

Why can't you seek out a game with admittedly better PvP content?

 

[Julio Montega]

Hmmm...
I'd say it could probably be made worthwhile for both sides,
but before that can happen FD need to live up to having PvP
in the game by integrating it properly into the mechanics
and BGS simulation.

 

[Goose4291]

Hmmm...
Integrating it properly into the mechanics
and BGS simulation.

Yeah, the BGS thing is an absolute mess.

Want pirates to use anarchy systems? Don't code anarchy factions in such a way that they are hurt by someone using their blackmarket for stolen goods!

 

[jasonbarron]

After c&p and karma runs villains of all stripes out of high and medium sec space, low sec & anarchy need powerful financial buffs to incentivize trade in those locales. Like a 250% increase in profits and much better engineering data/materials as rewards to hot zones where not only are Thargoids likely to appear, but PvP "bad guys" have been relegated and NPC's are buffed in general.

Being the piratee isn't going to be fun, but the rewards will make the risk irresistible and offset the occasional run that goes pear shaped.

 

[Julio Montega]

After c&p and karma runs villains of all stripes out of high and medium sec space, low sec & anarchy need powerful financial buffs to incentivize trade in those locales. Like a 250% increase in profits and much better engineering data/materials as rewards to hot zones where not only are Thargoids likely to appear, but PvP "bad guys" have been relegated and NPC's are buffed in general.

Being the piratee isn't going to be fun, but the rewards will make the risk irresistible and offset the occasional run that goes pear shaped.

Do i get a sticker with flappy wings showing my infamy
and my "ranking" so i can pat on me virtual shoulder
meself?

I'd welcome the people doing the changes to C&P to be the pirate in the game
for a month, prior to setting them in action.
I do not look forward to punishment & punishment.

 

[jasonbarron]

Do i get a sticker with flappy wings showing my infamy
and my "ranking" so i can pat on me virtual shoulder
meself?

I'd welcome the people doing the changes to C&P to be the pirate in the game
for a month, prior to setting them in action.
I do not look forward to punishment & punishment.

The meta point under the surface I was attempting to make was "Fdev desperately needs to use c&p to flesh out gameplay in the ED universe as opposed to just implement a hammer to smite bad griefers with."

 

[Goose4291]

I'd welcome the people doing the changes to C&P to be the pirate in the game
for a month, prior to setting them in action.
I do not look forward to punishment & punishment.

The meta point under the surface I was attempting to make was "Fdev desperately needs to use c&p to flesh out gameplay in the ED universe as opposed to just implement a hammer to smite bad griefers with."

I think that was the saddest thing about C&P, the moment when I realised it wasn't a Crime and Punishment overhaul, but a 'punishment if you don't play properly' stick, and nothing else.

The worst thing is people like us highlighting that it won't work because of obvious reasons, but of course, we're just griefer shills trying to stop the change, and not players who experience open, interact with and know these people, who are trying to forewarn how little it's going to work, right guys?

 

[Powderpanic]

Do i get a sticker with flappy wings showing my infamy
and my "ranking" so i can pat on me virtual shoulder
meself?

I'd welcome the people doing the changes to C&P to be the pirate in the game
for a month, prior to setting them in action.
I do not look forward to punishment & punishment.

I too would actually like to see the FDEV team actually playing the roles they are about to destroy in an attempt to make players who still will get ganked and cry griefer before they release punishment and punishment.

Its like many of the people in here who have never pirated or tried PVP pirating, saying how they think pirating should work.

Remember pirating with limpets is just space pick pocketing

 

[Julio Montega]

The meta point under the surface I was attempting to make was "Fdev desperately needs to use c&p to flesh out gameplay in the ED universe as opposed to just implement a hammer to smite bad griefers with."

Oh man, i agree on that, my "reading between the lines"-sense really is out of comission.
But i don't think they'll do that, we have plenty of addons to look over what was expected
and delivered. The data doesn't speak for integration of a sensible treat to the system.
It consumes too much time, and by doing something they can strike off the point
on the todo list.

We know how it works.

I think that was the saddest thing about C&P, the moment when I realised it wasn't a Crime and Punishment overhaul, but a 'punishment if you don't play properly' stick, and nothing else.

The worst thing is people like us highlighting that it won't work because of obvious reasons, but of course, we're just griefer shills trying to stop the change, and not players who experience open, interact with and know these people, who are trying to forewarn how little it's going to work, right guys?

I'm proud to be a part of the problematic crowd.

 

[jasonbarron]

I think that was the saddest thing about C&P, the moment when I realised it wasn't a Crime and Punishment overhaul, but a 'punishment if you don't play properly' stick, and nothing else.

The worst thing is people like us highlighting that it won't work because of obvious reasons, but of course, we're just griefer shills trying to stop the change, and not players who experience open, interact with and know these people, who are trying to forewarn how little it's going to work, right guys?

Exactly. I harbor no illusions what the purpose of the system is for (if they even get around to delivering it). It is a darn shame, though, isn't it? Just imagine how very cool it could be. A system that encouraged gameplay avenues and made activities such as pure pirating fun, profitable and enjoyable for all concerned.

 

[Goose4291]

I'm proud to be a part of the problematic crowd.

Indeed. Unlike those who like to write flowery prose about how much of a renegade pilot their Elite Dangerous character is, or talk a big game on social media....

Exactly. I harbor no illusions what the purpose of the system is for (if they even get around to delivering it). It is a darn shame, though, isn't it? Just imagine how very cool it could be. A system that encouraged gameplay avenues and made activities such as pure pirating fun, profitable and enjoyable for all concerned.

Oh it'll be coming, in it's most extreme heavy sledgehammer form. The LaveCon/Elite Meet crowd will see to that..

 

[Powderpanic]

Browncoat for lyfe!

 

[znôrt]

I ran them down and the battle was short and its outcome pretty much inevitable, resulting in me taking a weeks worth of crafting goods off him. Their initial response was "that'll teach me to sail un-escorted LOL". I carried on for a fair while like this, getting similar responses.

Then out of one of their ports sailed a taskforce specifically to hunt me down and, promptly ran me out of the region, with both sides having a good giggle about it.

gold. but this simple concept is all too often completely alien around here.

scooping up their traders as prizes for the glory of the Empire

and you weren't even flying a black flag! a brit in war with the french, possibly, french traders. faction war business as ususal and the world didn't collapse, nobody had a nervous breakdown? weird. :O

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And yet again we are shown how "all modes are equal" killed another game content.

And enhanced it for others. Its not a one way thing you know.

And yeah, there is no reason for anyone to play open when doing anything except PvP. However, plenty of people do play open who are not particularly looking for PvP. Including some traders. So, probably best to ask them why they play in Open if you want an answer to that. I'm not one for trading myself.

 

[nightsta1ker]

In Jumpgate, which is far and away the closest multiplayer game to ED that I'm aware of (I backed ED looking for a Jumpgate replacement). There were no modes, and no instancing transitions of any kind, except at the fixed entrances to a system.

Piracy worked here, because it was unavoidable other than by being extremely fast ((I could blockade run in a scout or ranger tooled for speed, but I couldn't carry much cargo while doing so, and I'd be in trouble if their interceptor was on the ball) or extremely powerful (I could occasionally get a group of rabble rousers together and blitz a gate, scattering the pirates long enough to get some cargo TOWs through..but there were lasting political repercussions to this). The pirates would 'gate camp' and demand money. You paid them, they'd almost always let you go on your way and make a note not to charge you for another day or week or whatever. You didn't pay them, several veteran players in fast combat vessels would do their best to set an example by destroying your ship (which had greater penalties than it does in ED). There was no practical way around pirates...the gate network didn't provide for many detours, and when they did exist, the trip would likely take you through even more dangerous space. However, pirates also generally avoided destroying compliant ships, because they actually needed the money (the economy was real), and because they were just as subject to the limitations of the game as anyone else...other groups might tolerate some degree of piracy for safe passage of their own, but being known as wanton butchers masquerading as pirates would quickly make most groups, especially other pirates, hostile to you. Sure there where squads of terrorists and such around, but they couldn't match the numbers the more conventional groups could field and usually spent most of their time in game on the run.

The act of being pirated wasn't enjoyable in and of itself, unless the victim was crazy, but the overall gaming experience made sense in the context of the setting and was more enjoyable to that community because of it. No one would have been disappointed to not be stopped and have money demanded from them at gunpoint, but most people would have thought the game was worse if such things weren't happening.

Once again, the idea of having a "real economy" in game changes the dynamics to an extreme degree. In a way, it keeps everyone a lot more "honest". When players can actually FEEL the crunch, THAT'S when things get really interesting.

But I know Frontier has their reasons for not implementing this.

 

[nightsta1ker]

Do i get a sticker with flappy wings showing my infamy
and my "ranking" so i can pat on me virtual shoulder
meself?

I'd welcome the people doing the changes to C&P to be the pirate in the game
for a month, prior to setting them in action.
I do not look forward to punishment & punishment.

It's all so badly implemented that it's the same amount of "no fun" for both parties.