Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy... More fun for explorers!

VR SenseiMatty

VR SenseiMatty
It would be nice to have this expansion dedicated to exploration. Let me explain it better.
The current galaxy is playable by all type of players so it offers no challenge to explorers anymore. With the current engineered FSD and Guardian boost you can go wherever without troubles. During DW2 I only risked my ship once and I was flying like an idiot on a planet surface.

The new galaxy could offer some good challenge in terms of route planning (stars very far apart, a lot of not-scoopable stars), an engineered FSD would not be a boost but a minimum requirement to go anywhere there. And the reward for adventuring in the new galaxy would be more and more various stellar phenomena and biological elements on planets. Also the exploration data and the codex vouchers would have more value because the explored sectors do not belong to the milky way.
With the new FC coming later this year it would be the perfect playground to add some Exploration content.
 

Vurrath

Vurrath
varonica said:
We seem to be working at cross purposes, the galaxy is proceduraly generated from a seed, you can't just "add stuff," outside it because, despite what you see in the game, there is no "outside" to the ED galaxy, what you are looking at when you are at the edge of the galaxy isn't a void you can fill with stuff, it's a picture! This is a game, there is no "outside"!

Of course maybe if you created an entirely new galaxy on a different serve with no connection to the current galaxy, like original Elite with their 256 galaxies. But that was an entirely different model and was built like that because the computers of the time couldn't load any more data due to current microprocessor limitations, the idea of this ED is that the galaxy is entirely one object with everybody exploring the same thing.

Doing it that way would mean essentially duplicating the entire game and all the infrastructure associated with it, it would esentially be two different games that FDEV would have to support but only the same number of players spread between them, and moving from one galaxy to the other would mean being entirely seperated from the existing player base, which completely destroys the intention of ED that everybody is playing in and affects the same galaxy. That would be a costly and ultimately ineffective way of doing things.

Maybe a different game, the next version of Elite, could include things like the dwarf galaxies and other new stuff we have found, but that simply isn't going to happen here because the galaxy model in ED isn't designed to work like that and nothing you can say will change it to work like that. The seed that generates the galaxy generates the galaxy and that's it, if you want more stuff generated such as dwarf galaxies then you need to use a different seed designed to generate said dwarf galaxies as part of the galaxy model.

Of course it should also be pointed out that the reason the galaxy is the size it is is simply because of the limitations of our microprocessors, the number of possible stellar objects in the galaxy is limited by the fact that we are using a 64bit number to assign a unique individual ID to every stellar object in the galaxy, there are none left to create a seperate galaxy anyway, so creating dwarf galaxies as part of the model would actually mean having a smaller, much smaller, main galaxy.
Click to expand...
I hear you, but Xbox / Mac / PC platform universes,
are already non-singular,
we are already,.. acutally-NOT,.. playing in the same place, so to-hell with old-advertising concepts.

I think what he * might have * imagined, was,

1 re-design the base spacial-loading, meaning, the space in which objects are located in 3D space exist in 3D, so it's expanded much wider than the amount of space allocated to-FIT what is currently fit in ... (the milky way fits-INTO, play-space 'V1' - play-space 'v2', would then be ... 5% wider and longer, 25% higher perpendicularly? something like that?)
2 keep a current copy of what is MADE as a product of stellar forge,
3 design a new 2-step combination-planning phase-design design, where the base approximate overlap of Canis Major's gaseous arms overlap generally, so... modelling still, at this point,..
3-2 use a quickly generated model of what stellar forge makes before fine-detail,
to-ALIGN it with your model for Canis Major's gaseous arms,
4 design either real-data or density-approximates for what is known in RL, to exist, within the gaseous arms, where presumably, scattered planets are only sporadic, but as we'd explore it, we'd be having to try to poke a pin through a hedge, to find a way through anyway, so to not-ALLOW many successful passages through, and perhaps a new exploratory mapping system that uses a modifed astrnomical module scanner or something, to MAP it as we go, selling to Universal Cartographics and then at a later stage, during updates, universal carto's data on it is integrated INTO our mapping system, so we can route-search without having to do it manually! (this would not happen within my #4 as i am ordering them here, i just meant here, in step 4,.. creating or as he put it,.. "add stuff" ... after making a DESIGN CHOICE,.. as to whether or not to use what RL data exists on it, or to COMBINE that with approximates or plot-device additional systems, to make it navigatable ... SOMEwhere,.. rather than no-where, if RL data suggests the distances would be too great)
5 generate LIKE stellar forge, a COMBINED real-world data, or if neccessary, MIXTURE, of RL data, and plot-contrivance / plot-device addED (his "add stuff" idea) ... to bridge the distances with difficult, but not impossible remote pathways inbetween otherwise impossible jumps ... like needing a 60+ base jump distance ship, and having to use premium FSD boost each time, to go 120 Ly per jump... THAT difficult...
6 cross-check for proximity / gravity errors (this would be time-consuming on the part of a server having to use some kind of algorithmic 3D spacial-checking, and FDev would probably? possibly? need to ask for outside help with that, instead of being able to do little manual edits AFTER stellar forge normally does the work for them ;) )
6-2 do any additional checking, like gravitational,
7 REVIEW and analyse what you've made in terms of astro-physics, for any glaringly obvious stuff-ups, like that there's no apparent IMPACT of the galaxy's gaseous streams and ionic gases , etc... on the VISUALS of the milky way's nebula,.. or i dunno,.. logical stuff like that
8 double check that fuel-scooping stars exist in enough single-file pathways through to more dense areas further out in the arm, that we can bridge the where-our-galaxy's-gravity-has-REDUCED-the-density-through-mass-attraction ... gap ... to get to the still internally-gravitationally integral / locked if you will ... denser, closer together! yay! stars within Canis Major's remaining arms further out,.. where they keep themselves going in long, elongated clusters & streams? i asume he meant?..
... and are YET to be grav. attracted into the milky-way's plane?

9 Here's the fun bit ...
... add whatever interesting CONTENT, is meant to be worth going to the effort of going there,.. FOR.
( i.e. other than exploration data - old guardian stuff? thargoids? the formadine rift? wwwwwwwhatever)

phew!

i assume that's what he meant - something like that ;

Essentially,
1 break-UP,.. the existing process of preparing for what stellar forge makes,
2 expand the 3D space in which what it makes, is imported / converted into,
3 STILL USE ... what has been made,.. including our play-data / ports, features, tahrgoids, etc
4 ADD, after-modelling, in the largER 3D space, the new Canis Major arms, made in a SEPARATE process,
5 join em together, error check,.. and THEN,.. finalize the new version of game.

I basically think you're exaggerating or pessimistic? :) a bit, about the need to start from a CLEAN SLATE,

i think he meant INTEGRATE, or separate different assumed UNchangeable or pausable, processes,
not just-within the singluar conversion-step, that stellar forge uses/usED ... but to AMEND,.. add to,.. what it has,
by BLENDING, yes manually,

but not single update after single update, system by sytem, of course,

grouping, a major update, to BLEND two maps into one, by PREPARING the new one,
to blend/integrate into a new singular 3D map, with a much larger width, if we can only go what... 5000? LY perpendicular to the plane?

so yes it's a modified engine in terms of maximum distance here and there in the code,
but if MOST of the time, no-one ever even gets slightly close to the edge, what difference will that make?

i don't see why you're so pessimistic, if you break up , slow-down, a assumed single conversion step,
or use incomplete data, one might say,.. rather than ONLY USING, that product on it's own,

then yes, it's not only using that process anymore, but so what?

why stick with only a singular process, for generating the play-space?

I think modifying it might not be as difficult as you're imagining, basically.

They might have to update the technical spec.s for running the game, though, it might need 8GB mem instead of 4,.. etc etc

Ppl keep talking about stellar forge like they're experts ... i'm not! nnnnno idea. but i know that the product OF a conversion of real data, into game-data, that could THEN,.. SUBSEQUENTLY,.. be fiddled with,.. could be fiddled with, regardless of whether or not you could advertise that your players,..

'play in a 1 for 1 version of the real universe', and similar advertising.

2 points on that, finally ;

1 withOUT stuff like Canis Major, one can argue MORE strongly i think,
that we're NOT playing in a 1-for-1,.. withOUT them, &
2 does that advertising line, really MATTER that much?
(as of the milky way ... as a selling-point,
that we would no-LONGER, be playing,
in a 1-for-1 of ... ONLY ... the milky-way. i.e. so what! )
shrugs
 
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