Cannons the verdict?

[bladebss]

I have beams and long range cannons on my conda. Timing is everything. You can't just blast away like other weapons. Firing when the enemy has slowed or is heading toward or away from you greatly increases your chances of hitting him.

Grade 5 long range small cannons shells travel at 2400ms i can hit a boosting eagle at 2k with ease. Eaven overcharged travel at 1200ms and do around 30 damage each so 2 of them is 60 it should be possable to 2 or 3 hit most PPs but in practice that doesnt seem to translate when using high yeald.

Im guna try dispersal and see if i get the expected results..

 

[Pauciloquent]

Grade 5 long range small cannons shells travel at 2400ms i can hit a boosting eagle at 2k with ease. Eaven overcharged travel at 1200ms and do around 30 damage each so 2 of them is 60 it should be possable to 2 or 3 hit most PPs but in practice that doesnt seem to translate when using high yeald.

Im guna try dispersal and see if i get the expected results..

High Yield Shell is great for non sniping as they spred the damage across multiple modules, and can sometimes shot the drive out of an FAS/FDS/FGS from the front (it's rare but can happen)... but if you like to snipe specific modules they are not an grate choice.

I think cannons need some sort of buff, every time I compare cannons and multi-cannons, multi-cannons always wins as they are easier to use has more ammo and damage potential, better projectile velocity, they can take out modules just as easily and you have the grate Corrosive Shell FTW... the one thing cannons do better is distributor draw...

I do use cannon tho because multi-cannons on every build gets boring.

 

[Mohrgan]

I prefer the impact of a cannon round, over the chip, chip, chip of a MC. The cannon is a weapon of opportunity. I drop rounds on power plants, while avoiding my target's damage.

 

[bladebss]

High Yield Shell is great for non sniping as they spred the damage across multiple modules, and can sometimes shot the drive out of an FAS/FDS/FGS from the front (it's rare but can happen)... but if you like to snipe specific modules they are not an grate choice.

I think cannons need some sort of buff, every time I compare cannons and multi-cannons, multi-cannons always wins as they are easier to use has more ammo and damage potential, better projectile velocity, they can take out modules just as easily and you have the grate Corrosive Shell FTW... the one thing cannons do better is distributor draw...

I do use cannon tho because multi-cannons on every build gets boring.

Agreed. More ammo would be grate so you are at least on par with multicannons, in terms of damage potential. And eather a 200 or 400ms speed boost or velocity unification across classes so they all fly at 1200. This would be plenty of buffage imo.

Multicannons have spin up time that can realy lower effective dps against wriggling oponents and you must maintain time on target for 1 second to do full damage but cannons do 2 seconds worth of damage in an instant so there is some advantages to using cannons even if they have less than half the effective damage potential and fly slower and have less usefull specials.. looking at you force shell.

 

[ChampN252]

Cannons are vastly underrated. From what I've seen, they are the only weapon that has no damage fall off throughout it's entire traveling distant. If my huge cannon hit you point blank or from 4500 km, it's the same damage. That's impressive, if you can land the shots.

 

[Sunleader]

Ok i dont like to use multicannons cus every one does, and as a result i think they are boring and i hate them. I like to be different, what can i say.

So regular cannons. I have been a fan since beta when they were the bees knees.. then they got nerfed some what and were.. erm not so good. One buff later and they are.. ok.. ish?

I have a viper built for light waight. I have 2 light waight rails on the medium slots.. they are great and save me 7 tons so they are keepers. But the small hard points are a bit of a conundrum.

Normaly i have rails in the smalls and a plasma and missle rack in the meds but its too heavy for this build.

So i put long range cannons in the smalls both have high yeald on them and... well they seem rubbish.

I can hollow out the inside of a fas with them but rather than destroying the power plant they seem to spread the damage over all the modules so it takes untill i have prety much melted the inside of the ship for the PP to go pop.

Any one have better experiance with them?

Dispersal field on one cannon seemed like a good alternative and hopefully when i hit the PP ot will do more damage to it and thing will be better? But then what of the other cannon?

Any cannon gurus out there?

I actually like to Fly with an Engineered Class 4 Cannon lately.
I used the High Yield Upgrade. So it deals Damage to Internal Modules if it Penetrates. Which this thing is pretty good at lol.

Cannons unfortunately are hard to Hit with. Even more so at anything but Short Range.
But they do Hurt alot if they Hit. And with Upgrades like that it often happens that I give Ships but 2 or 3 hits and they suddenly Float helpless in Space because I grilled their Engines or stuff malfunctioned.

If anything. I recommend using Gimballed Cannons only. As turrets will waste Ammo and barely hit anything.
Also I would not use Cannons below Class 3 as they simply dont pack enough Punch when they Hit.



I generally like Burst Lasers more than Multi Cannons by the way.

 

[Pauciloquent]

Agreed. More ammo would be grate so you are at least on par with multicannons, in terms of damage potential. And eather a 200 or 400ms speed boost or velocity unification across classes so they all fly at 1200. This would be plenty of buffage imo.

Yes an ammo and projectile velocity buff would be enough... a unification of 1200 m/s I think would be fair "if" multi-cannons stay at 1600 m/s... plus it would fit that multi-cannon bullets are about 60% faster then 21st century equivalent guns like the GAU-8 (1010m/s) so why not have the cannons 60% faster as well (21st century 5" to 16" cannons 750-800 m/s).

Multicannons have spin up time that can realy lower effective dps against wriggling oponents and you must maintain time on target for 1 second to do full damage but cannons do 2 seconds worth of damage in an instant so there is some advantages to using cannons even if they have less than half the effective damage potential and fly slower and have less usefull specials.. looking at you force shell.

Ah yes cannons have better burst damage, and the spin up time can have an effect on performance, especially class 3 MC (but not class 4 MC it has no spin up)... I tried to use a fixed class 3 MC on my vulture... that was not fun.

 

[metascrawl]

I have used cannon as burst hull/module damage for ever. My PvE set ups generally go with Pulse lasers for shields and small ship, with one or two cannon, depending on the ship, for cracking the nut. They are pretty powerful, hit above their class, and are great at mincing modules. One of the side values, for me, of a cannon is the added ammo control one needs.

MC's are just spray them out there. After a while that get boring. I rather the boom, and then the real drop in integrity. Frag Cannon are great fun, up close. At any range they are less effective.

It boils down to getting the power of a Rail, or PA, without all of the drain on my power plant.

Repped for using the correct plural. (Not that I care if people don't, I just like that you did)

 

[Calrissian]

I give cannons 2 thumbs up. Especially if you like going a bit old school on you ship builds. They need more ammo though IMO. 20 more rounds should do the trick. ;-) I really don't like the way the Class 3 cannon looks though. It's a bit too "Doctor Who."

 

[Morbad]

Projectile velocities for cannons vs multicannons should be flipped. It would be more realistic and it would fix everything.

A shell fired from a 155mm M114 Howitzer has a muzzle velocity of about 560m/s.

A 20mm M61 Vulcan projectile has a muzzle velocity of about 1050m/s, while the GAU-8/A's 30mm projectile leaves the barrel at a barely lower 1010m/s.

Tank guns firing kinetic energy penetrators have much higher muzzle velocities, but the cannon we have in Elite seem to be firing shells of some sort and most large rotary cannon have projectile velocities in excess of most artillery.

Regardless, none of the ED weapons are depicted with realism in mind.

In space? Class 4s should rocket you backwards!

Being in space doesn't make a vessel massless, only weightless.

We have the projectile velocities, but what's a reasonable mass for each projectile? 105 rounds fit into a standard Elite cannon and firing them does nothing to the mass of out ships. They can also be synthesized on the fly from materials we can seemingly carry on our CMDR's persons.

Even if we are generous and say that half the mass of the weapon is the ammunition, that leaves us with under 80kg a shot for a huge cannon. There would certainly be some recoil from pushing that out a barrel at ~800m/s, but it would hardly cause any ship massive enough to have a huge hard point to "rocket backwards".

So do you find the high yealds to be more effective against modules than regular shells? I wunder why i feel like they do less module damage.. have you tested them without?

They do less module damage...to more modules. This will cause multiple malfunctions faster and destroy MRPs more quickly.

If you are sniping one specific module, that you can reliably hit, and don't care about any others, then you just want raw damage.

 

[Threeofseven]

Cannons are my favorite weapon. However, you must use fixed as gimbled cannons miss all the time (except for small gimbled which are pretty accurate). Also use overcharged, don't do the long range thing or you just end up with an inferior and heavy slow firing multi-cannon.
Dispersal field is a must on any build as it screws up gimbled weapons, followed by high yield shell. Force shell is also fun.

 

[Dad Rock]

Grade 5 long range small cannons shells travel at 2400ms i can hit a boosting eagle at 2k with ease. Eaven overcharged travel at 1200ms and do around 30 damage each so 2 of them is 60 it should be possable to 2 or 3 hit most PPs but in practice that doesnt seem to translate when using high yeald.

Im guna try dispersal and see if i get the expected results..

I gotta get me some of these!!

 

[Vlad Tepes]

They do less module damage...to more modules. This will cause multiple malfunctions faster and destroy MRPs more quickly.

If you are sniping one specific module, that you can reliably hit, and don't care about any others, then you just want raw damage.

Does it means that hitting a specifically targeted module with high yeld cannon will, aside for doing the splash to other modules, not do the base penetration damage of the weapon but only the splash explosive damage to it ?

 

[Morbad]

Does it means that hitting a specifically targeted module with high yeld cannon will, aside for doing the splash to other modules, not do the base penetration damage of the weapon but only the splash explosive damage to it ?

I'm not precisely certain what portion is converted to explosive with a splash effect, but the damage is either the same or less than a normal direct hit, and the ROF is slower...which makes a cannon with no special (or anything without ROF, or damage penalties) superior for going after individual modules...if you can land the shots.

 

[Starman 1966]

Cannons are great. You should see my 7-cannon gunship. It's one of the most effective ships I got, even more so when a fighter is out with me.

Sounds tempting to me. [up] Would you let us know how you have engineered / mixed your cannons? I would very much like some variety from the usual boring combination of lasers, PA's and MC's.

 

[Pauciloquent]

A shell fired from a 155mm M114 Howitzer has a muzzle velocity of about 560m/s.

(I can't belive I'm saying this) I don't think the Howitzer type/style of cannon is suitable for space ship to space ship combat as it's ment for high trajectories with a steep angle of descent, so I think the velocities for naval guns from about 5" to 16" is more appropriate, so about 750-800 m/s... add about 60% to that and you have the velocity I think cannons should have (1200 m/s).

A 20mm M61 Vulcan projectile has a muzzle velocity of about 1050m/s, while the GAU-8/A's 30mm projectile leaves the barrel at a barely lower 1010m/s.

Add about 60% to that and you have the velocity of multi-cannons (1600 m/s)

Tank guns firing kinetic energy penetrators have much higher muzzle velocities, but the cannon we have in Elite seem to be firing shells of some sort and most large rotary cannon have projectile velocities in excess of most artillery.

I'm a bit off topic here but I would love to see AP and HE in synthesis insted of standard and premium.

Regardless, none of the ED weapons are depicted with realism in mind.

Yes... but sci fi weapons still needs to be believable and... well cannons seem a bit of to me...

 

[bladebss]

I must say after testing out one dispersal and one high yeald.. i like it. The high yeald does damage if i miss and does secondary module damage when i havent got line of sight. And the dispersal does nice direct damage when i have line of sight. I have been testing out long range vs overcharged and in pve overcharged is great but pvp i need the long range to be shure to hit reliably. So much more fun than multis.. if only i had more ammo for them.. its not too bad as i tend to run out of rails around the same time. I do miss my target lock pa thogh lol