Elite / Frontier Cannot get my head around FFE .. I have tried

[Luniticisi]

This post will probably infuriate a lot of people on here but, for the life of me I cannot get into Frontier or FFE ... I have tried so hard to try them out as E: D is going to follow some aspects of those models ..

I didn't like them back in the day, I have said before that my biggest disappointment in computer games EVER, was loading up Frontier: Elite 2 .. with immense anticipation and excitement, only to be presented with Frontier, with all of it's fantastic achievements in programing, the vast, almost unbelievable size of the universe, with orbit's and tons to do ... but without the most important aspect ... Game-play! ... It felt like a point a click game ... and still does.

Recently I thought I'd try out FFED3D as I thought to myself ... I am much older now and I will be able to appreciate the game more, People on these Forums seem to love it .. quite a lot seem to want the flight model in E: D .. it must be good ...That's what I thought ....

I was wrong ..

If anyone can come up with a convincing reason (or tips) to make me try it again .. then I will .. but for me if E: D is anything like those games (apart from the galaxy itself) I think I could be in for another disappointment.

 

[Susimetsa]

People just have different tastes, there's no changing that. There are several good threads with advice on how to fight the space fights in FE2 and FFE, so I'm not going to repeat them here. Those who like it, like it because of the added realism over most other space sims out there. Those who don't like it, are looking for "planes in space" feel and simply cannot accept that flight in space does not work the same way as it does in atmo.

Different tastes, that's all.

 

[Dr Wookie]

I'm not sure what you mean by no game-play.

If you mean that you're looking for a more rigid structure, then I think E: D might disappoint you too. There should be plenty to do, with many more roads to joining th e order of elite than just killing a whole bunch of ships

However, if you are referring to the rather boring space combat, then E: D should be a drastic improvement over FE2 and FFE. Due to the stupid speeds obtained in FE2 and FFE, combined with a realistic approach, combat was really "jousty", where you faced off with a single opponent, taking firing runs at them, turning, and trying again. Meanwhile, E: D promises combat with tens (hundreds?) of ships, many of them controlled by other humans.

 

[Philip Coutts]

The games following Elite were hard to get into, no doubt about that. It took me a long time to get into the combat and I always found it very frustrating. But they had so much in terms of gameplay that I was willing to do that. It looks like from the dev diary footage that ED is going to be more like Elite than Frontier in terms of gameplay. Certainly the chase through the asteroids would suggest a more Elite style of combat.

 

[withnail]

I'm with you on this. Picked up FFE the other day and pretty quickly put it back down.

I do still play the original from time to time and this has not lost any of its magic.

 

[Bingo Brewster]

I'm the same. I totally missed Frontier at the time so I thought I would give FFED3D a go as an alternative to Oolite in anticipation of E: D

I could never get it to work properly (my fault probably, no patience) and the flight model was a total turn off.

I don't care if a game is realistic, I just want it to be fun. Atmo flight for me every time

 

[Luniticisi]

Maybe 'Game-play' was too strong a word and I will retract that, of course there was plenty of stuff to do in the game, what I should of said was 'Fun'
I want the sandbox feel of all of the Elite games ... the whole .. Here's a ship ... off you go .. style that Elite invented (and has never been bettered)

I might just be stupid but trying to plot a course in the map screen on FFE was harder than flying the ship (which also felt wrong).

realism smelism, give me good old elite .. planes in space .. no ... more like really super fast helicopters in space (forwards, backwards, left, right, roll, yaw) ... And I really don't want the autopilot to be the main way to fly ... I want to do it myself ... ..

 

[Susimetsa]

And I really don't want the autopilot to be the main way to fly ... I want to do it myself ... ..

I really did not use much autopilot when I was playing. I mostly used manual control ('engines off' mode, which meant that the computer interfered as little as possible).

 

[Captain N]

You can fly without autopilot in Frontier.

Well, if you can.

 

[FrogsFriend]

I suppose that I felt it was the other way around. Elite had good dogfighting, but I wanted to do so much more. FE2/FFE had terrible dogfighting but I felt like I was really living and travelling in space, and that was what drew me in.

I spent so much time just visiting the different planets and moons, often skimming the surface or landing just to look around.

I guess that with both games it was my own imagination that really worked the magic, the game just provided a structure to start it off.

So far ED looks like it will have the best of both worlds but with a huge amount more detail and interaction to help draw us in. I really can't wait to launch my ship and start living in space again.

 

[JeffRyan]

I'm not sure what you mean by no game-play.

However, if you are referring to the rather boring space combat, then E: D should be a drastic improvement over FE2 and FFE. Due to the stupid speeds obtained in FE2 and FFE, combined with a realistic approach, combat was really "jousty", where you faced off with a single opponent, taking firing runs at them, turning, and trying again. Meanwhile, E: D promises combat with tens (hundreds?) of ships, many of them controlled by other humans.

I was Dangerous or Deadly on my C64. I don't think I rose about mostly harmless in Frontier or First Encounters. Hell I knew the RAF were missing a natural talent when I could shoot missiles out of space without even batting an eyelid. In Frontier I could hardly hit a ship.

 

[Susimetsa]

Those of us who took the trouble to understand Newtonian physics could very well hit the enemy ships (all but the smallest fighters - those were annoying!).

BUT: We've had several discussions about this already. No need to repeat it all: some prefer atmospheric flight (and I think they should stay with flight simulators instead of wanting to play a space sim) and others would like as realistic experience as possible (those who love science and loved FE2 and FFE). Many are prepared to see what sort of compromise Frontier has in mind for Elite 4.

 

[gunbladelad]

The key point about the Frontier games is that in terms of combat, it does have a bit of a steep learning curve (as in jump into the wrong system and not only will you hit a brick wall, but said brick wall will then crush you if you're unprepared...)

In truth, it's all about learning how to handle Newtonian physics. Check out the "Frontier Fundamentals" videos on Youtube and you'll get some very useful pointers on good & bad practices - including how to avoid the stereotypical "jousting" combat, which is always the fault of the player not controlling their ship well enough. (Of course, if a player's in a Panther clipper, then the odds are they'll be picking fleets of small fighters off the hull when they reach spacedock...)

 

[Sir.Tj]

Moved to the Elite Frontier section.

 

[Pappy55uk]

I am the same to some extent..

I fraking love FE2 it's my favorite game of all time. FFE for some reason just does not feel the same for me. I dont know if its the new cockpit interface or the gfx that feel more chunky.

 

[drew]

I 'reviewed' fe2 and ffe a couple of months back and came to similar conclusions...

http://www.drewwagar.com/progress-report/beyond-the-frontier/

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Good review Drew.

I'd have to agree. Frontier I completely agree with. The constant jousting took its tole. In Frontier, wasn't there a restriction that meant you only encountered one ship at a time?

As far as FFE is concerned, I'm mostly agree. The only difference I'd say is that the engines off lateral thrusters, which were put in via JJFFE (and are in FFED3D), changed the game for me. It made the combat a lot more accessible, especially when dealing with four piddling little Eagles in my Asp.

 

[gunbladelad]

The "one ship at a time" thing only took place with regards to the time acceleration - I think it was programmed in to prevent being instantly killed by fleets of ships at maximum acceleration, but it is somewhat buggy.

The best way to play FFE is to avoid the maximum time acceleration except for in "safe" systems where you simply want to dock ASAP and don't have to worry about NPC ships attacking you.

 

[Penthux]

This post will probably infuriate a lot of people on here but, for the life of me I cannot get into Frontier or FFE ... I have tried so hard to try them out as E: D is going to follow some aspects of those models ..

The differences between personal preference is what makes us unique as people. I can't say I agree with you about FFE, as I love it to bits, but what's funny is that I prefer FFE to the original Elite because I find the ships easier to fly. With or without autopilot!

I do remember initially installing and playing FE2 and finding it very difficult at first to get used to the way the ship handled. When I moved on to FFE the physics were pretty much the same so no problems there for me.

The reason I favour FFE over FE2 and Elite is the depth of fiction and history involved. Especially with the in-game journals. It gave me a sense of being part of something bigger. I remembering featuring in them too, once or twice. LOL!

On top of that were the ships. So many ships in different shapes and sizes. If they weren't enough there was the Thargoid Warship just waiting to be discovered. I spent around 7 years playing FFE on and off. I still have a dabble now and then when the feeling grips me.

I know FFE isn't everyone's cup of tea but it suits me very well indeed. :smilie:

 

[Captain N]

The "one ship at a time" thing only took place with regards to the time acceleration - I think it was programmed in to prevent being instantly killed by fleets of ships at maximum acceleration, but it is somewhat buggy.

The best way to play FFE is to avoid the maximum time acceleration except for in "safe" systems where you simply want to dock ASAP and don't have to worry about NPC ships attacking you.

I started a new game in FE2 (Amiga) using only the second highest stardreamer setting, and I can verify this. Pirates attacking in groups appears to be common behaviour now.

Before I've always used the highest acceleration while traveling and never saw more than one ship attack at once.

I've even had intense situations where I watched a ship close in from thousands of kilometres (having targeted them in the system map), thinking they were alone, before I notice one or two pixels moving to the side, realising they brought friends... Very different from the highest acceleration in FFE where they pretty much teleport straight into your face.