NOTICE: Sorry for the late finish, my Browser decided to Submit when i added a Line to the Table.
Lets be honest, the current Version of Odysseys on-foot Combat is...not great.
But why? Lets give a few examples.
Lets take a look at some Weapons first:
What do we notice?
1) Why should i use an SMG? They are not Sidearms, they are Primary, and inferior to the Assault Rifles.
2) Why is there nothing "special" for the Lasers?
3) Why do Pistols have the highest DPS?
4) <50m is the usual effectve Range
So, the numbers are totally whacky.
Not to mention that engagement Range really isnt that high. There is no large Battlefield in the CZ where Range would matter.
What else is there?
Plasma Weapons all have a traveltime of around 50m/s. Maybe a bit more or less, its hard to measure. So why is there a Marksman Rifle with 100m effective Range, which takes 2s to hit? Thats fine for the Pistol and Shotgun, but not for Marksman and Assault. Not only that, there is no "Overshield Damage". Even 1p of Shield absorbs a full Plasma Blast. Not the Shotgun though, because this one fires multiple Projectiles.
So "effective Range" really isnt true here. The Executioner is not effective at 100m, the Aphelion is.
The Oppressor is also currently the weakest Weapon. Yes the numbers say that it deals the same amout of Damage as the others, but due to the Projectiles it cant be used at the same Range. And since Pistols are so strong, a simple Weapon-Swap is more effective...or just use another Manticore Weapon.
So, Damage and effectiveness is NOT only about Damage. There are a lot more factors to consider. Accuracy, Speed, Recoil...
And with that we have the next issue. Weapon Swap.
The Rock-Paper-Plasma balance is just bad.
Weapons should be a choice, just like they are on Ships. I can use a full Laser Ship, i can use a full Multicannon Ship.
If my Multicannons are bad against Shields, i engineer them to deal Thermal Damage. Same the other way around with Lasers.
Why cant i do that with Personal Weapons? Why am i forced to swap in Combat just to take out an Enemy?
Then there is Variety and Mission balance
As i said, the current System is designed and balanced entirely around Arena-Combat. Combat Zones. They are not meant for Open-World Combat.
Why is only the Plasma Section "different"? Why is there no Kinetic Sniper or Shotgun? A Beamlaser?
There is no Weapon for a specific Job. I can only go Lethal and Loud. To make a Weapon silent, i need Engineering.
Assassination Missions are a good example. Stay undetected. Your Tool for the Job? An overcharged Taser...
Even Punches are Lethal. Imagine an Assassination Mission where you knock out the Guards from behind, similar to how the Taser is instakilling them. Just without the Bounty...until they are discovered and you are discovered to be the Attacker.
Or whats the Reason for a Rocket Launcher? There is no Infantery VS Vehicle Combat. You dont bring Rockets to fight against Infantery. Thats what Underbarrel-Grenadelaunchers are for.
And while we are at that...
Why exactly is it possible to take out a huge Ship with Infantery-Grade Weapons? I can understand an SRV, but why is it even possible to destroy a Ships Shield with a Pistol?
A Shield that can tank several Class 4 Plasma Projectiles, each of them bigger than a Human?
Conclusion
Combat needs a complete rework, away from Arena-Combat and towards Open-World-Combat. Open World Combat is not just Infantery VS Infantery at close Range.
You dont rush towards eachother, there is cover, there is height advantage, there is environment. A Weapon should be chosen for a specific Job, and not just for its DPS because nothing else matters. SMG and Shotguns for Close-Range, Assault Rifles for Mid-Range, Sniper Rifles for Long Range, Special Weapons for Anti-Vehicle and such things.
EDIT: I heard the argument with "Snipers would be too strong" quite a few times now.
Thats just simply wrong. Why are Sniper so strong in most Shooters? Because most of them are balanced around Arena-Combat. Just look at the famous Call of Duty. You run around and Quickscope. Thats not a good example for a well designed Sniper Rifle. Its just like our Executioner. You run around, Quickscope, and kill. Thats what makes them "too strong". They are Cannons, not Snipers.
Instead, look at the (older) Battlefield Games. Choose your hiding spot, lay down, and camp. Yes, camp, the one thing everyone hates in those fast Arena Shooters. You cant bring a Sniper into quick and agile Combat. Any other Weapon will kill you there, even the Dude with his Pocketknife.
There is no Quickscoping. You need to set up your Rifle, you dont move around much. Stay there too long to farm kills, and something big and explosive from the Sky nukes your Camp. And thats exactly the Environment that we have outside a CZ. We dont have that one optimal Path to the next Objective. Enemies dont spawn all in the same Spot and run down the same Road. They can be everywhere, you can attack from any direction you wish.
The Elite AI, from what i have seen, can already actively narrow down your location and react to noise. We just lack the Tools and Weapons to utilize it. We cant really Snipe, and the enemy cant really counter us. They cant call in Air-Support or Artillery. I also have not yet seen one carry a Rocket Launcher. Yes they carry Executioners, but they are bad with it, for the same reason why we are bad with it. Its not meant to be a long Range Weapon. You see a slow moving Orb coming your way? Just step to the side, it will take a while before the next one crawls your way.
"But i can hit just fine at 200m with the Executioner" yes, it works. But lets look at Ship Weapons. Yes, you can hit a Ship at 6km with Plasma, but its not effective. Using a Hitscan Weapon like Rails or Laser is more effective, using Full Auto Weapons like Multicannons is more effective. Its the same with On-Foot Weapons. Just because it works, doesnt make it good. You are better off using it at short Range where you can reliably Hit and Kill. But for that we have a Plasma Shotgun already, which even negates the Shield Issue mentioned above. We also have a Mini-Executioner that behaves pretty much the same, just in form of a Pistol.
Lets be honest, the current Version of Odysseys on-foot Combat is...not great.
But why? Lets give a few examples.
Lets take a look at some Weapons first:
Long Range | Medium Range | Short Range | Special |
Karma AR-50 Kinetic Assault Rifle Full Auto Base DPS: 9.0 Effective Range: 50m | Karma C-44 Kinetic SMG Burst Base DPS: 8.0 Effective Range: 25m | Karma P-15 Kinetic Pistol Semi-Automatic Base DPS: 14 Effective Range: 25m | Karma L-6 Rocket Launcher - Base DPS: 44.4 - |
TK Aphelion Energy Assault Rifle Burst Base DPS: 9.1 Effective Range: 70m | TK Ecplipse Energy SMG Full Auto Base DPS: 9.0 Effective Range: 25m | TK Zenith Energy Pistol Burst Base DPS: 9.7 Effective Range: 35m | - |
Manticore Executioner Plasma Marksman Rifle Semi-Automatic Base DPS: 12.5 Effective Range: 100m | Manticore Oppressor Plasma Assault Rifle Full Auto Base DPS: 9.0 Effective Range: 35m | Manticore Tormentor Plasma Pistol Semi Automatic Base DPS: 18.6 Effective Range: 15m | Manticore Intimidator Plasma Shotgun Semi-Automatic Base DPS: 21.9 Effective Range: 7m |
What do we notice?
1) Why should i use an SMG? They are not Sidearms, they are Primary, and inferior to the Assault Rifles.
2) Why is there nothing "special" for the Lasers?
3) Why do Pistols have the highest DPS?
4) <50m is the usual effectve Range
So, the numbers are totally whacky.
- SMG should have a higher DPS at shorter Range than the Assault Rifles, due to accuracy and spread the Assault Rifles would then be better at long Range.
- Pistols should not be stronger than SMGs
- Pistols should not be stronger than Rifles
Not to mention that engagement Range really isnt that high. There is no large Battlefield in the CZ where Range would matter.
What else is there?
Plasma Weapons all have a traveltime of around 50m/s. Maybe a bit more or less, its hard to measure. So why is there a Marksman Rifle with 100m effective Range, which takes 2s to hit? Thats fine for the Pistol and Shotgun, but not for Marksman and Assault. Not only that, there is no "Overshield Damage". Even 1p of Shield absorbs a full Plasma Blast. Not the Shotgun though, because this one fires multiple Projectiles.
So "effective Range" really isnt true here. The Executioner is not effective at 100m, the Aphelion is.
The Oppressor is also currently the weakest Weapon. Yes the numbers say that it deals the same amout of Damage as the others, but due to the Projectiles it cant be used at the same Range. And since Pistols are so strong, a simple Weapon-Swap is more effective...or just use another Manticore Weapon.
So, Damage and effectiveness is NOT only about Damage. There are a lot more factors to consider. Accuracy, Speed, Recoil...
And with that we have the next issue. Weapon Swap.
The Rock-Paper-Plasma balance is just bad.
Weapons should be a choice, just like they are on Ships. I can use a full Laser Ship, i can use a full Multicannon Ship.
If my Multicannons are bad against Shields, i engineer them to deal Thermal Damage. Same the other way around with Lasers.
Why cant i do that with Personal Weapons? Why am i forced to swap in Combat just to take out an Enemy?
Then there is Variety and Mission balance
As i said, the current System is designed and balanced entirely around Arena-Combat. Combat Zones. They are not meant for Open-World Combat.
Why is only the Plasma Section "different"? Why is there no Kinetic Sniper or Shotgun? A Beamlaser?
There is no Weapon for a specific Job. I can only go Lethal and Loud. To make a Weapon silent, i need Engineering.
Assassination Missions are a good example. Stay undetected. Your Tool for the Job? An overcharged Taser...
Even Punches are Lethal. Imagine an Assassination Mission where you knock out the Guards from behind, similar to how the Taser is instakilling them. Just without the Bounty...until they are discovered and you are discovered to be the Attacker.
Or whats the Reason for a Rocket Launcher? There is no Infantery VS Vehicle Combat. You dont bring Rockets to fight against Infantery. Thats what Underbarrel-Grenadelaunchers are for.
And while we are at that...
Why exactly is it possible to take out a huge Ship with Infantery-Grade Weapons? I can understand an SRV, but why is it even possible to destroy a Ships Shield with a Pistol?
A Shield that can tank several Class 4 Plasma Projectiles, each of them bigger than a Human?
Conclusion
Combat needs a complete rework, away from Arena-Combat and towards Open-World-Combat. Open World Combat is not just Infantery VS Infantery at close Range.
You dont rush towards eachother, there is cover, there is height advantage, there is environment. A Weapon should be chosen for a specific Job, and not just for its DPS because nothing else matters. SMG and Shotguns for Close-Range, Assault Rifles for Mid-Range, Sniper Rifles for Long Range, Special Weapons for Anti-Vehicle and such things.
EDIT: I heard the argument with "Snipers would be too strong" quite a few times now.
Thats just simply wrong. Why are Sniper so strong in most Shooters? Because most of them are balanced around Arena-Combat. Just look at the famous Call of Duty. You run around and Quickscope. Thats not a good example for a well designed Sniper Rifle. Its just like our Executioner. You run around, Quickscope, and kill. Thats what makes them "too strong". They are Cannons, not Snipers.
Instead, look at the (older) Battlefield Games. Choose your hiding spot, lay down, and camp. Yes, camp, the one thing everyone hates in those fast Arena Shooters. You cant bring a Sniper into quick and agile Combat. Any other Weapon will kill you there, even the Dude with his Pocketknife.
There is no Quickscoping. You need to set up your Rifle, you dont move around much. Stay there too long to farm kills, and something big and explosive from the Sky nukes your Camp. And thats exactly the Environment that we have outside a CZ. We dont have that one optimal Path to the next Objective. Enemies dont spawn all in the same Spot and run down the same Road. They can be everywhere, you can attack from any direction you wish.
The Elite AI, from what i have seen, can already actively narrow down your location and react to noise. We just lack the Tools and Weapons to utilize it. We cant really Snipe, and the enemy cant really counter us. They cant call in Air-Support or Artillery. I also have not yet seen one carry a Rocket Launcher. Yes they carry Executioners, but they are bad with it, for the same reason why we are bad with it. Its not meant to be a long Range Weapon. You see a slow moving Orb coming your way? Just step to the side, it will take a while before the next one crawls your way.
"But i can hit just fine at 200m with the Executioner" yes, it works. But lets look at Ship Weapons. Yes, you can hit a Ship at 6km with Plasma, but its not effective. Using a Hitscan Weapon like Rails or Laser is more effective, using Full Auto Weapons like Multicannons is more effective. Its the same with On-Foot Weapons. Just because it works, doesnt make it good. You are better off using it at short Range where you can reliably Hit and Kill. But for that we have a Plasma Shotgun already, which even negates the Shield Issue mentioned above. We also have a Mini-Executioner that behaves pretty much the same, just in form of a Pistol.
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