Cargo dropping space, does it stay?

Fromhell · Jul 1, 2013

Cargo dropping in space, does it stay?

Anyone know if we will be able to drop a box of cargo somewhere in space and send coordinates to someone else to pick it up.
Will the cargo become part of the persistent universe and be there until someone picks it up?

Also will we be able to password protect secure containers and anchor them in the universe?

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Mentski · Jul 1, 2013

I like this idea. Maybe not permanently persistent, because nobody wants a galaxy full of space junk (imagine what would happen to all the jettisoned rubbish/radioactives/etc), but maybe at least a few hours so somebody can make the pick up.

Serpentstar · Jul 1, 2013

Fromhell said:
Also will we be able to password protect secure containers and anchor them in the universe?
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I, for one, do not want to see this. Especially if they can be turned into stationary advertisements for groups, to advertise credits for sale for real cash, to promote groupings, etc.

Then again, this could also be used as an exploit. Someone could send out the locations to their friends, all in different instances, and since they are in difference instances, they could each be opened by someone.

Once you exit a system and re-enter, there is no guarantee you will enter the same instance as the containers. Unless of course, the instance is keyed to a given player.

Aewarin Jameson · Jul 1, 2013

Fromhell said:
Anyone know if we will be able to drop a box of cargo somewhere in space and send coordinates to someone else to pick it up.
Will the cargo become part of the persistent universe and be there until someone picks it up?

I know you can drop cargo and potentially give coordinates to it (via your own location perhaps) but I doubt it would become part of the persistent universe ... maybe for a period of time when you exit the instance before it evaporates into nothing ?

Fromhell said:
Also will we be able to password protect secure containers and anchor them in the universe?

No information about PW protecting containers.

How do you anchor containers in space ? Anchor them to what ? What do you use as a frame of reference to ensure they're not moving ? (Not deliberately being obtuse here, I just don't know how this would be done in real life)

Fromhell · Jul 1, 2013

Liqua said:
I know you can drop cargo and potentially give coordinates to it (via your own location perhaps) but I doubt it would become part of the persistent universe ... maybe for a period of time when you exit the instance before it evaporates into nothing ?

Would be cool if it works, it works in that other online space sandbox and I´ve been using it every now and then for black market trading and PLEX transfer. Also useful for player run treasure hunt events. (e.g. puzzle solving to get coordinates and the password)

Liqua said:
No information about PW protecting containers.

How do you anchor containers in space ? Anchor them to what ? What do you use as a frame of reference to ensure they're not moving ? (Not deliberately being obtuse here, I just don't know how this would be done in real life)

Anchoring is just the term for code locking/securing containers to make them permanent and stay 30 days in the universe and can´t be taken away by another player. Unsecure containers disappear a lot earlier (half an hour or so or until someone comes along and takes it on board)

Mentski said:
I like this idea. Maybe not permanently persistent, because nobody wants a galaxy full of space junk

In Star Wars Galaxies (another sandbox) it was possible to build permanent houses. We have lots of space in ED, I guess it would take quite a while to fill up 100 000 000 000 star systems with cargo containers..

Susimetsa · Jul 1, 2013

How do you password protect containers in the real world? If you leave a container by a highway, how do you secure it so that no one can pick it up?

If there is no rational explanation to it (other than "I want to do it") then do not make it possible.

Aewarin Jameson · Jul 1, 2013

Susimetsa said:
How do you password protect containers in the real world?

Small step from numbers to letters

Susimetsa said:
If you leave a container by a highway, how do you secure it so that no one can pick it up?

You can't .. so proximity mines ?

Erimus Kamzel · Jul 1, 2013

I would like to see this in game. If its to be a true persistant universe then this sort of thing should be included.

I've been reading about the Explorer profession and from I gather having the ability to drop supply containers out in the depths of space where there are no known stations would be a great feature.

It adds logistics and forward planning to the game play. :smilie:

I agree with others who say these containers should not last forever though. I'd hate to see it like it was in Eve where the galaxy was at one point littered with containers advertising all sorts of .

Containers should not be nameable and they should not be anchorable like they were in Eve. If you see one in space anyone should be able to scoop it like normal cargo. The ED galaxy is big enough to hide your stash of essentials so there shouldn't be a need to lock it down and password protect it Eve-style.

Aewarin Jameson · Jul 1, 2013

Fromhell said:
Anchoring is just the term for code locking/securing containers to make them permanent and stay 30 days in the universe and can´t be taken away by another player. Unsecure containers disappear a lot earlier (half an hour or so or until someone comes along and takes it on board)

Ahh right - thanks - kind of obvious when it's in front of you to read

Erimus said:
I've been reading about the Explorer profession and from I gather having the ability to drop supply containers out in the depths of space where there are no known stations would be a great feature.

I think for the explorer you're supposed to take enough with you for the 'just in case' scenarios.

Allowing a drop point is a nice idea but means they have to be permanent in space.

Erimus Kamzel · Jul 1, 2013

Liqua said:
I think for the explorer you're supposed to take enough with you for the 'just in case' scenarios.

Allowing a drop point is a nice idea but means they have to be permanent in space.

I like risk vs reward. If someone wants to push things to the limit and risk living beyond the boundaries of known space they should be given mechanics to do it. It adds tension to the gameplay - imagine being out in the wilderness, down to your last few supplies due to unforeseen circumstances (environmental damage to your ship, or pirate attack etc) - you don't have enough supplies to get you back home. Luckily you've got a secret supply dump just within reach though. Now you're heading to it but you don't know if its still there or not. That adds a whole new emotional dynamic to the game.

I wouldn't make them permanent - that'll lead to a cluttered galaxy like in Eve. Maybe there could be different grades of container. Cheap ones last 2 days before imploding. Expensive ones last a week?

Aewarin Jameson · Jul 1, 2013

Erimus said:
I wouldn't make them permanent - that'll lead to a cluttered galaxy like in Eve. Maybe there could be different grades of container. Cheap ones last 2 days before imploding. Expensive ones last a week?

Sounds reasonable .. odd on though that someone will spell something out in space using cargo cannisters

Erimus Kamzel · Jul 1, 2013

Liqua said:
Sounds reasonable .. odd on though that someone will spell something out in space using cargo cannisters

Thats true

Unless they're very expensive and not worth the waste of money.

In Eve they were incredibly cheap if I remember and people would create massive artwork with them that would lag the system. They could be refreshed by anyone flying near them too I think, so they were essentially permanent features.

In ED if they're fragile, expensive, and have a finite life they could be a decent money sink.

Oss133 · Jul 1, 2013

I like the idea of a supply dump. I would also like to see that they were permanent at least until it was proved to cause a system issue. Cleaning up old supply dumps sounds like salvage work to me.

Fromhell · Jul 1, 2013

Erimus said:
I wouldn't make them permanent - that'll lead to a cluttered galaxy like in Eve.

The amount of EvE-phobia is always astonishing. Does the number 100 000 000 000 star systems tell you anything about the chance of "cluttering"?

A million players would probably need 1000 years to "clutter" the universe with containers.

If we can´t even anchor a container, not even talking about about building a space station which is not part of the game design anyway, how does this compare to sandboxes like Minecraft, EvE, SWG (dead) and the upcoming Archeage and EQ Next which even let you build permanent stuff in the game world?

deMangler · Jul 1, 2013

But how would this work with the grouping mechanism?
Would players not in your group suddenly see a cargo cannister or jetcan suddenly appear from nowhere?
Would they suddenly disappear for no reason when someone in another group destroyed or scooped it?

The only option that makes sense to me is that only those in the same group when the can is dropped or created can interact with it. Ever. I do want them to be persistent though.

Captain N · Jul 1, 2013

I've been under the impression that due to the supposedly p2p heavy architecture of the multiplayer universe it would be rather unlikely that there would be a server capable of tracking small objects like canisters (they would be handled by the clientside and disappear when nobody is there to see them and the instance gets closed) This isn't like Eve where the entire universe is held on a single server and all players interact in a massive sandbox.

I think a dev may have explicitly said somewhere that objects like canisters and asteroids wouldn't be persistent, though I don't have the link here.

Erimus Kamzel · Jul 1, 2013

Fromhell said:
The amount of EvE-phobia is always astonishing. Does the number 100 000 000 000 star systems tell you anything about the chance of "cluttering"?

A million players would probably need 1000 years to "clutter" the universe with containers.

Perhaps cluttered galaxy was the wrong example. More likely a cluttered Core system, especially around high traffic trade hubs. If you don;t think that's what will happen with permanent canisters you're very naive.

If we can´t even anchor a container, not even talking about about building a space station which is not part of the game design anyway, how does this compare to sandboxes like Minecraft, EvE, SWG (dead) and the upcoming Archeage and EQ Next which even let you build permanent stuff in the game world?

Why eliminate risk? Do you want an easy game? Unsecured containers add risk to the game. You drop valuable supplies off in them you now have an element of risk to take into account. In eve there was little risk because containers had more hitpoints than a battleship

Yeah that's realistic and totally risk free. No thanks.

I think permanent playermade structures will be in the game one day - but even those should not be indestructible and risk free player havens.

Sparkam · Jul 1, 2013

I think this is important feature and it was discussed alot in other threads. I like it very much, and hope it will be in game...

Kerrash · Jul 1, 2013

Fromhell said:
...Does the number 100 000 000 000 star systems tell you anything about the chance of "cluttering"?...

True, but most people would probably end up dumping in the same area

Sparkam · Jul 1, 2013

Kerrash said:
True, but most people would probably end up dumping in the same area

And there will be missions to clean up these areas from debris and containers