Engineers Cargo rack engineer?

[Bunkerkind Anni]

ah, you're right.
since i had to learn that damn DIAMETER based formula for circle surface area (A=π·1/4·D2 ) i always end up mixing them up, especially late night

but the result is roughly the same:
those ingame representations for "cargo" containers are by far to small for many of the things they are supposed to contain.

maybe i should fix that T9 picture
atm it shows blue container representing the fuel capacity.
if i put in realistic fuel tanks the ship size may start to become more realistic. (and then i do the same with the conda )

 

[Robert Maynard]

ah, you're right.
since i had to learn that damn DIAMETER based formula for circle surface area (A=π·1/4·D2 ) i always end up mixing them up, especially late night

but the result is roughly the same:
those ingame representations for "cargo" containers are by far to small for many of the things they are supposed to contain.

If they had a length / diameter ratio of 2:1 and a usable volume of 14.11m³ with an effective permeability (estimated) of 90% then they'd be roughly 2.153m Ø x 4.306m.

.... except they're not cylinders.... Note to self: examine a cargo canister in detail tonight....

 

[Wyldwiisel]

Maybe ED should be changed then to ship by volume as we know the volume of a cargo container and work the weight out separately so you can jump further if carrying hydrogen and not so far if you packed to the rafters with platinum

 

[Robert Maynard]

Maybe ED should be changed then to ship by volume as we know the volume of a cargo container and work the weight out separately so you can jump further if carrying hydrogen and not so far if you packed to the rafters with platinum

The structure of the ship and module securing arrangements would need to be substantially beefed up to allow for cargo per container exceeding 1t.

It could also make ensuring that the ship's centre of mass and radii of gyration remain within limits rather challenging....

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Just think of the number of HRPs that could be installed into an optimally subdivided Class 8 module bay....

Or, Car Wars beer coolers...

The structure of the ship and module securing arrangements would need to be substantially beefed up to allow for cargo per container exceeding 1t.

It could also make ensuring that the ship's centre of mass and radii of gyration remain within limits rather challenging....

That's how Traveller did it (13.5 cubic meters per ton mass). It was one of many handwaves.

At least *we* had artificial gravity.

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Or, Car Wars beer coolers...



That's how Traveller did it (13.5 cubic meters per ton mass). It was one of many handwaves.

At least *we* had artificial gravity.

Ahh, Traveller, those were the days, I think it's the only game where your play could end during Character Creation..lol

I still have scores of those 'lil Black books'

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Ahh, Traveller, those were the days, I think it's the only game where your play could end during Character Creation..lol

I still have scores of those 'lil Black books'

I have them *all*.

What Elite players want, is Traveller Book 2: Starships and Spacecraft. Design our own ships. Book 2 is a treasure.

The death in generation rule was always the first house rule/mod implemented. I had prison, court-martial, marooned, etc...

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

Yup Fantastic game, High Guard is good too for Starship design... but

We must not Hijack this thread it's not fair... even if we are enjoying ourselves (have a rep point for being 'older' school)

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

we could also go with the X-Universe, that had cargo racks with "space compression". whatever quantum-handwavium witchspace magic that could be

 

[Robert Maynard]

we could also go with the X-Universe, that had cargo racks with "space compression". whatever quantum-handwavium witchspace magic that could be

Having just read "Consider Phlebas", the Minds had a pretty nifty way of storing bits of themselves in hyperspace....

(wouldn't work in this game though)

 

[DHMeyer]

I have them *all*.

What Elite players want, is Traveller Book 2: Starships and Spacecraft. Design our own ships. Book 2 is a treasure.

The death in generation rule was always the first house rule/mod implemented. I had prison, court-martial, marooned, etc...

Never played Traveller, but it sounds awesome. In regards to designing our own ships... I was sort of hoping the Engineers will allow for something similar. To make the ship truly your own. So you could take, say, YT-1300f light freighter, modify its hyperdrive to make it very fast, add better shields and weapons, scan-proof cargo compartments... Oh, sorry, that's another universe.

But you get my drift. You could take T6 or Python or whatever, basically gut it out and organise everything inside on your own. Different core modules, different layout of the internals. You could put, say, size 7 thrusters in a Python at the expense of loosing some space for internals. Or divide internal modules differently. That would add A LOT to the game. Alas, we got slot machines instead. But perhaps not all is lost and I feel if FD decided to allow us for some modification of the internals, that would still result in much more diverse ways to play Elite.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

The limitation on ship design is size, and the number of the slots.

Elite is a modular system, not a integrated whole. This ships are collections of slots, mounts, and utilities, surrounded by art, and, not on a consistent scale.

You *could* say that Elite ships *could* be procedurally generated, varied by RNG...

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

if you want to design your ship on your own, you have to go an play "Dual Universe"

IF you can cope with the perspective of having a game that is the mashup of minecraft and eve, just without NPCs, because the DEVs think it only needs player created content.

 

[DHMeyer]

You *could* say that Elite ships *could* be procedurally generated, varied by RNG...

Spit it out! And was your mouth with soap. No more RNG please, you're g me out right now.

if you want to design your ship on your own, you have to go an play "Dual Universe"

IF you can cope with the perspective of having a game that is the mashup of minecraft and eve, just without NPCs, because the DEVs think it only needs player created content.

+Rep and thanks for the tip off. That doesn't look half bad, actually...

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

if you want to design your ship on your own, you have to go an play "Dual Universe"

IF you can cope with the perspective of having a game that is the mashup of minecraft and eve, just without NPCs, because the DEVs think it only needs player created content.

That's a pretty negative attitude there!

I feel that the introduction of player based but essentially ED approved content could be very good, you only have to look at Skyrim for some of the creations and ideas that players have provided,

3d models of flora & fauna, buildings, weapons, foodstuffs, utilities whatever and so many textures, story lines and fleshed out lands much of which with the only tools provided with the construction set,

If ED were to provide a basic tool box that would allow users to pretty up their game with no gaming advantages I bet it would go down a treat,
and if these mods were made available to download only if you'd bought the tool box there'd be a heap of takers

(it would probably mean that certain information would need to be stored on your machine of choice but ... their the ones with brains I'm just a Decorator)

 

[DHMeyer]

That's a pretty negative attitude there!

I feel that the introduction of player based but essentially ED approved content could be very good, you only have to look at Skyrim for some of the creations and ideas that players have provided,

3d models of flora & fauna, buildings, weapons, foodstuffs, utilities whatever and so many textures, story lines and fleshed out lands much of which with the only tools provided with the construction set,

If ED were to provide a basic tool box that would allow users to pretty up their game with no gaming advantages I bet it would go down a treat,
and if these mods were made available to download only if you'd bought the tool box there'd be a heap of takers

(it would probably mean that certain information would need to be stored on your machine of choice but ... their the ones with brains I'm just a Decorator)

Aah, but they sell stuff to pretty up your game already. They can't have players making something and others downloading it for free. Probably there is some scope for FD running the store and taking their cut, but for some reason they didn't give players tools to create content. Perhaps they are afraid they won't be able to cope with submissions approval process or maybe they decided they don't want unwashed masses messing up with their game.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Aah, but they sell stuff to pretty up your game already. They can't have players making something and others downloading it for free. Probably there is some scope for FD running the store and taking their cut, but for some reason they didn't give players tools to create content. Perhaps they are afraid they won't be able to cope with submissions approval process or maybe they decided they don't want unwashed masses messing up with their game.

or it was never meant to be such kind of game.

 

[DHMeyer]

or it was never meant to be such kind of game.

Well, yeah. There's that too.

 

[Shiro Akai]

As I see it it is a dead weight limit, not space that cargo occupies. Ships to move require thrust. If thrust > weight then ship moves. If thrust < weight then ship don't move. Simple. Rolling for upgraded cargo racks (I mercifully skip the part when you want to fit 5 beers into one glass issue) would mean total weight increase. So... it shouldn't be cargo racks that provide extra space - it would be power plant output. More mass requires more engine.

But there is volume problem. 1 tonne is universal in mass. But 1 tonne of beer would take far less space than 1 tonne of clothing. Hell, even clothing can vary in volume. 1 tonne of heavy leather coats would be smaller (in volume) than 1 tonne of bikinis. I just like to think we have space for some standardized cargo containers. It's a bit misleading with cargo being measured in tonnes tho. More appropriate would be container. But this would make engineering modding impossible.

 

[Requiem Mortis]

I'd like to see an Engineer be able to divide cargo racks, such that you can split them into multiple racks something a long the lines of the following, with a balancing loss of 1 class per subdivision thus...

Class 3 --> 2 x Class 1
Class 4 --> Class 2 + Class 1
Class 5 --> 2 x Class 2 / Class 3 + Class 1 / 3 x Class 1
Class 6 --> Class 3 + Class 2 / Class 4 + Class 1 / 2 x Class 1 + Class 2
Class 7 --> Class 5 + Class 1 / Class 4 + Class 2 / 2 x Class 2 + Class 1 / 2 x Class 1 + Class 3
Class 8 --> Class 6 + Class 1 / Class 5 + Class 2 / Class 4 + Class 3 / 3 x Class 2 / 2 x Class 1 + Class 4 / 4 x Class 1

...may be the balancing penalty should be 2 Classes per division and only one division allowed but you get the general idea.