"One is the loneliest number you'll ever know." Three Dog Night, 1968.
Cash Cow's. Gold Rushes. Easy mode for the new? Bitterness for the old? Or a pointless argument?
- Thread starter imaner76
- Start date
"One is the loneliest number you'll ever know." Three Dog Night, 1968.
That's because Harry Nilsson didn't have K.I.T.T.
Still only have 350+ mill to my name and have no big ships and no interest in rushing to the next cash cow. I do the things i want to when i play and usually earning cash isn't one of them.
I don't really have any issue with people who do either but i also understand why it shouldn't be in the game. MMOs are designed to be a bit more like real life (grind included), not everyone can be a Jedi and frankly a game where everyone is soon looses its shine.
FDev want elements of the game to be epic achievements, players owning 20+ ships and swimming in a McDuck vault after a weekend isn't what they want.
Simple as that.
I don't really have any issue with people who do either but i also understand why it shouldn't be in the game. MMOs are designed to be a bit more like real life (grind included), not everyone can be a Jedi and frankly a game where everyone is soon looses its shine.
FDev want elements of the game to be epic achievements, players owning 20+ ships and swimming in a McDuck vault after a weekend isn't what they want.
Simple as that.
I'm pretty sure none of us really knows what Frontier wants, but I would certainly welcome any of them to speak up and actually tell us.
What I can deduce is this:
Frontier does not actually mind how many ships we have, given the storage capacity of any given station nor the number of stations with ship storage capacity.
Frontier does not mind if we amass large amounts of credits, due to the extremely high cap on our credit balance (anybody actually know what this is?)
Frontier does not seem to want to tell us what to or not to do, but does discourage certain activities, such as mercilessly preying on new players with extremely large and powerful ships.
From what I have gathered on the forum talking about this subject is simply that Hardcore ED gamers hate causal gamers. This is the long and short of it, they do not like or want players that can not invest at least 40 hours into this game a week. Examples would be when someone says what a good credit to hour rate, they will say 1-3 million. I ask how low should it take someone to get into a fully fit Cutter, why, because it and the Conda are the ships you will see in a lot of vids that might make you want to play the game. They would say 1000 to 1500 hours, so about 2-3 years for a casual player. They also call it "easy mode", then say money doesn't mean anything.
FD listens to them because they are on the forums all day while the majority of players have jobs and can't be there so all FD see's is them. The reality is if OA and Yamiks want change, vids aren't changing anything as nobody at FD watches them. They need to get their viewers here to say their piece.
FD needs to come out and say yes there is an issue and we are going to do something or tell causal gamers to get lost they don't need their money.
FD listens to them because they are on the forums all day while the majority of players have jobs and can't be there so all FD see's is them. The reality is if OA and Yamiks want change, vids aren't changing anything as nobody at FD watches them. They need to get their viewers here to say their piece.
FD needs to come out and say yes there is an issue and we are going to do something or tell causal gamers to get lost they don't need their money.
Agreed there are no caps so you can accrue as much money and ships as you like and their very motto is blaze your own trail.
But they don't need to tell us what the limits are, the very design of the game should tell you that.
We aren't heros, we are just everyday folk a little loftier than the common man as we've been to Pilots Federation Top Gun academy in Miramar.
Yes we can accrue massive wealth but whenever it involves things like mission stacking or other quirks of the BGS its clearly not as intended.
Selfie old son, you're far too combative about this whole thing. You're arguing, not discussing and you've already made up your mind that you're right. There's no 'common ground to work with' because you know you're right and the whole point of each of your posts is to preach to those of us who are so obviously wrong about a topic you clearly care a great deal about. You're absolutely claiming the moral high ground, as are a number of others on this board...
I'm not arguing btw, I'm making an observation.No offence meant.
Barry, old son, I'm quite happy to discuss the issue in whatever terms people choose to adopt.
If we were discussing, say, climate-change then I'd be quite happy to discuss the issues in a nuanced and even-handed manner but you can't do that as long as the other guy is flat-out denying that climate-change is an issue.
If you want to bring such a person into a useful conversation, the first step is to get them to admit there is actually an issue to be discussed.
You're trying to second-guess my motivations for asking that question and you're over-thinking it.
As I said, above, my only intention was to refute the idea that "the credits I have don't have an effect on anybody else".
If we give newbie A a billion credits, he'll be able to go and do things that newbie B cannot do - many of which can have an effect on other people's game in ways tha newbie A can't match.
Credits do have an effect on other people's game.
Speaking of influence, the best way to influence anything in this game is to move stuff around. All the time spent chasing gold rushes could have a much greater impact on the bgs and therefore everyone else's game if the gold miner had stayed home and done some trucking instead. It doesn't take long to earn a decent truck!
I'm not saying a gold miner can't do all of those things, I'm saying they generally don't. (#NotAllGoldminers
Again, the only point is much more straightforward than you're trying to make it.
Whether or not they have an effect on other people's game by impacting the BGS at source isn't really the issue (although it's certainly possible).
The issue is simply that having a heap of credits allows people to go off and do things that they otherwise wouldn't have been able to do.
Maybe that'll be something obvious, such as buying an Annie and ganking, or maybe it'll be less obvious, such as buying a T9 and putting it to use in a CG.
It's all stuff they can do, which affects other people's game, as a result of the credits they have.
As I've been saying all along, I'm not suggesting that doing this stuff should be criticised.
As long as it doesn't involve an exploit, I'm all for it.
I'd much rather gold-rushes were implemented properly so that there was no stigma attached to them, people would know there was no moral reason to avoid them and then it would be reasonable to say "everybody has the same opportunity so stop moaning about them".
We can't really get to that point while people are still flat-out denying that there's an issue worth addressing though.
See, this is just a personal observation but I've seen plenty of evidence to support that concern.
I've been randomly attacked by plenty of CMDRs in Cobras and Vipers using pulse-lasers that can't even scratch my shields.
I've also been attacked by players in Annies and Cutters (rarely Corvettes for some reason though [where is it]) which can't do much damage either.
The latter would certainly appear to be would-be gankers who're hoping that credits will buy them infamy.
Ironically enough, they probably don't create a big problem for many other players in reality though.
About the only people they will cause problems for is similarly inexperienced players who just haven't spent the same amount of credits on a sturdy ship.
FDev doesn't hate casual gamers, its casual gamers believing that they have to have the best of the best to play the game. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere out in the black there is a commander who has been playing for 3 years and has never even come back to the bubble since 1.0 and is merrily flying along in a cobra or similar.
Yes getting the big ships are a goal for some people but getting them doesn't impact any other portion of the game, the 'content' is the same for big ships as well as small. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification society now where nobody has any interest in working for anything, real or virtual. Just because this is a game doesn't mean it should have an instant win easy mode.
Avoid open play? Cos some players use cheap quick fixes to get ahead then other players should avoid playing the multi player mode. That's very selfish and also not very bright.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Ok, I have my answer now.
"C, a pointless argument"
"C, a pointless argument"
I've noticed that too.
It's like some people think they should be entitled to unlimited credits and anybody who's concerned about the problems that might cause should stay out of Open and the game should be changed to cater to the people who want this, even if that is at the expense of people who're playing in Open.
Damn, I said Hardcore gamers hate casual gamers. Just look at the comments here for proof it is all over, including your comment. I don't care how you play this game, yet you just told evenyone "look at me, i don't a big ship, so your complaints mean nothing". At least that is how you are coming across to people. If money means nothing to you and it isn't affecting what you are doing then why do you care?
PEOPLE AREN'T ASKING FOR INSTANT GRATIFICATION!We are asking for Balance. BUT when it's brought up, YOU and the hardcore gamer base say "sidy and a billion" to side track the conversion that can't be had because on the hardcore base. Only the trolls say that to get a rise out of you people.
I'm saying it shouldn't take 2-3 years of non-stop grinding just get the biggest ships, but maybe 250-300 hours with faction ranks and system ranks involved. Missions are boring and need to be spiced up, BUT no they weren't made that way, pray to RNGesuss.
Some people have lives. Some people have different goal sets then YOU. Some want to see this game get better, not rot because people refuse to say"maybe there is an issue over here that needs to get looked at".
Lastly as far as FD goes, i'm pev'd because they haven't said anything on this, whether these low payments and taking 1000-1500 hours to get a ship are right, or if yes it's to low. They don't say what the target credits per hour they would like to on average from mission or trading is. Lets face if you, in a best case scenario cover the cost of your ship in a trading (using type 9 as example not conda) then its broken. It's called scaling, and credit payouts don't scale causing you to hit a wall at the ASP Explorer.
Payout Scalability
The game needs some sort of meaninful payment scale. I made a forum post today where i posted this.
The picture is something i did just because i felt that ranks are underused and we practically don't get any benefit from them, besides unlocking 3 ships. They would help scale payouts for vets and keep the pay for the newbies. win-win
Check the link under my signature if you wish to get into the post
The game needs some sort of meaninful payment scale. I made a forum post today where i posted this.
The picture is something i did just because i felt that ranks are underused and we practically don't get any benefit from them, besides unlocking 3 ships. They would help scale payouts for vets and keep the pay for the newbies. win-win
Check the link under my signature if you wish to get into the post
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Thank You Genex, that is more along the lines of what we want, makes all those progression bars worth more than a discount and encourages people to use underdeveloped system within the game while boosting payout at the same time. Thanks for the visual as well.
Yeah - I spend most of my time doing assassinations, bounty hunting, and CZs. I'm not doing it for the cash. I use my cash to build and gear dozens of ships with weird builds for fun. Can I hunt in a haz res in an ieagle? Hell yeah. I've tested it and enjoy it. Can I be successful in my clipper, my chieftain, my courier, my cutter, my corvette etc. in a high intensity CZ? Hell yeah I've tested it.
What allows me to enjoy the game in this way is my access to those 100 m/hr gold rushes. Credits buy access to game functionality.
I posted this before - apologies for repost:
Three neighbors decide to build pools in their back yards.
Fred is a purist. He loves dirt, and the act of digging. He uses a spoon. He savors every bite, the crunch of the quartz, the smear of the kaolin, and the occasional earthworm. It takes him 3 years but he really enjoyed the process.
Sam is a perfectionist. With cat-like poise and style he uses his shovel while going through 15 levels of black belt katas. His pool edges can be measured with a micrometer. His muscles ripple as he completes the pool. It takes him a month, but he looks like a god when he sits by the pool.
Joe wants a pool. He drives a back hoe into his backyard, excavates the hole and has the pool completed in 10 days.
Fred says, I'm sure those guys can't appreciate their pools, they did not spend the time to appreciate the creation of the void within, and the glacial transformation of the universe around it.
Sam says, I'm sure Joe will drown, he is not physically fit enough to swim. What an idiot.
Joe says, hey can you guys keep it down, I'm trying to enjoy my pool.
In RL I'm 54 and swim a 28 minute mile daily. And yes, the pool I swim in was excavated with a backhoe. You really should consider letting people swim in the pool they've paid for.
It all comes down of what is Rewarding and what feels rewarding and for me Only activity that feels currently rewarding enough to do is material hunting for Engineering.
Problems:
Bounty hunting (Not worth my time to do it for money only good for pew pew and materials)
Open gameplay (too many gankers to be enjoyable)
Missions in general (Not worth the time and feel extremely unrewarding most of em)
Grinding for faction status (was rewarding to get the big 2 ships but not rewarding since does not offer monetary rewards later on)
Minor faction rank/status (again pennies not rewarding enough)
Travel 20000ly deliver something for 3 mill (NOT rewarding at all. I would not do that even with 30mill pay.)
Mining (Not my cup of tea in this game so much hazzle for little reward also i would hope to be able to make those asteroids smaller asteroids I even liked EVE mining more atleast mined asteroids were removed)
I admit i have used multiple Cash rush/cow methods to make the game more fun for me and for me game started when i got my big 3 ships. (I disliked the small ships in this game)
What i think should be the correct rate would be based on your rebuy cost and faction rank/reputation (example my Rebuy cost on my big 3 ships is 15-30mill each so i expect that i would NOT need to do missions for whole damn day to afford 1 rebuy instead i should be able to afford it by doing between 3-7 missions currently it is not possible)
Problems:
Bounty hunting (Not worth my time to do it for money only good for pew pew and materials)
Open gameplay (too many gankers to be enjoyable)
Missions in general (Not worth the time and feel extremely unrewarding most of em)
Grinding for faction status (was rewarding to get the big 2 ships but not rewarding since does not offer monetary rewards later on)
Minor faction rank/status (again pennies not rewarding enough)
Travel 20000ly deliver something for 3 mill (NOT rewarding at all. I would not do that even with 30mill pay.)
Mining (Not my cup of tea in this game so much hazzle for little reward also i would hope to be able to make those asteroids smaller asteroids I even liked EVE mining more atleast mined asteroids were removed)
I admit i have used multiple Cash rush/cow methods to make the game more fun for me and for me game started when i got my big 3 ships. (I disliked the small ships in this game)
What i think should be the correct rate would be based on your rebuy cost and faction rank/reputation (example my Rebuy cost on my big 3 ships is 15-30mill each so i expect that i would NOT need to do missions for whole damn day to afford 1 rebuy instead i should be able to afford it by doing between 3-7 missions currently it is not possible)
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I can use the same arguement to say everything should be free including engineer mods, ranks, unlimited jump range etc.
If it were solo then yes cheats, why not. I see no reason to object and you'd be right. But Elite is online and therefore it matters.
It's like saying I want all the prestige gear in COD without doing the time/effort to prestige. Then using that gear to massacre everyone and being untouchable because you got all that gear.
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Yeah - in games like GW2 Prestige gear is cosmetic only and not game -competitive. Prestige gear is not required to access game content like pvp, wvw, raids and "fractals". Your analogy is empty and not factual.
In Elite, ships = different modes of play. If I'm playing in solo, pg, or Open it doesn't matter. I bought the game, I used the game as designed to access the features of the game. Go sit in the corner with your puritanical self-denial and keep it to yourself. Are you just not good at playing the game?
In Elite, ships = different modes of play. If I'm playing in solo, pg, or Open it doesn't matter. I bought the game, I used the game as designed to access the features of the game. Go sit in the corner with your puritanical self-denial and keep it to yourself. Are you just not good at playing the game?
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I said COD, not Guild wars 2
p). COD does restrict weapons as evidenced by the many "what's worth earning" posts: https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/call-of-duty-ww2-all-the-division-prestige-weapons/2900-1632/If you don't like that perhaps look at Destiny, or Mass Effect, or any other shooter/RPG. You don't start with the OMFBFG in level 1, you gain rank and experience and work up to it.
Anyway, now I have proven my analogy is factual, if you don't deliberately change it to something else entirely, it lets move on to your counter point.
In Elite credits do not buy access to content. A Cobra III can do anything an Anaconda can, not as easily/effectively sure, but tell me what's locked out by not having credits? Give me one undeniable thing.
You can PvP in a Cobra, it's been done, you can club together and beat up a thargoid with small ships again been done. You can explore, you can trade, you can mine. Nothing is restricted. The only thing big ships do is increase the numbers on the screen. The mechanics of combat, trading, mining, exploration are identical.
So who's arguments are empty and not factual again?
Solo/Open/PG does matter. I can exploit 500 billion credits and have a few thousand rebuys for my Corvette. I can then sit in the starter systems ganking newbies forever. Even if much more skilled players attack me I simply die and re-spawn. Even if ATR attack me and I loose my Vette I can buy another one and exploit my way to rebuilding my bank balance. There is nothing you could do to prevent me from doing that.
This has/is happening, not up to speed on the latest but it was happening.
As I say, if the game were solo then exploit away. In online it affects other peoples game.
Congratulations, you bought the game. That entitles you to what now?
Games lock content, whether that be a story mode, a levelling system. If you don't like it you shouldn't have bought it. Do you complain that Dark Souls locks the story because it's too hard so you should get god-mode? Your time must be really short if you are arguing you should be able to complete a game the second you buy it for every game you've ever played.
Now the bit I wasn't going to post:
The game was clearly not designed to be exploited because the developer took the exploits out which is why we are here having the discussion. Wow, arguments so poor you have to resort to attacking the person through the anonymity of the internet. Top quality, go back to your bridge, or to Star Citizen since you clearly want to buy a game with an "I win button", they will give it to you with a lovely price tag attached and compliments.
See, works both ways, I was discussing, you turned it into mudslinging. Your family must be proud.
To respond to the attempted character assassination maybe check my past 5-10 posts. I'm actually in favour of buffing payouts for the late game ships, or cheapening the module exponential curve. But nah, I guess keep attacking me as if I'm suggesting we return to the days of 300 credit bounties and 400 credit mission rewards.
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