Casual Player Penalties FD Should Reconsider

[GammaZ]

From what I've seen the timers can range from 20 mins to 17 hours right up to a couple of days. As far as long range hauling goes, I'll take the short timers if I have time, or the 17 hour ones if I know I'm busy. It's not like the missions disappear if you don't select them. I've turned down plenty of of high paying missions because 2 hours is not enough time for me to get on with real life and come back to complete. No big deal, when I get home a new batch are waiting for me.

Sure, this things can be planned, and penalties are not that high, and missions can be taken at any time... it is just annoying when you take a mission (kill X pirates for example), partially complete it, then you have to go, and when you return a day or two later you basically have lost all your progress.
Also i just believe that any game need to have a way to exit it at any moment without penalties. Just because it is game... and it has nothing to do with it being "casual" or something...

 

[bamber]

Hi FD,








[*]Mission timers that don't stop when I exit the game


[*]I kid you not, I have failed 4 missions in a row because one of my kids threw up and I had to log off, a neighbor came over needing help, the wife demanded I stop for dinner with the family, and once I realized it was after midnight and I needed to sleep for work the next day and could not wait the hour still to go on holding the data.
.
.
[*]No ship transport mechanic

• make it magic like the transition to the SRV- I can call any ship I have for a cost based on distance, but after paying it will instantly be available in the starport where I am docked
• It is just a game, realistic or not. Will be like Multi-crew- to be fun FD won't be able to force us to dock and load on the friends ship all the time, there will have to be "teleportation", immersion be darned

[*]Insta scans and insta-death USS

• These could be bugs, but in the last week I have failed a mission due to a totally unavoidable scan- I turned on silent running and boosted with FA Off and all pips to engines as soon as it started but it was over in 2-3 seconds.
  
• Similarly, I dropped into a non-strong signal source while carrying a valuable data delivery and dropped right in the middle of 4 ships that started firing right away and was killed in seconds- and this was NPCs. Realistic maybe... I don't think they even had time to do a proper scan though. And I certainly had no chance to run, supercruise or fight

[/LIST]

I think 2.1 will be amazing for the game and my enjoyment, but it would be even better if it addressed these points.

Just took out some points for comment

pt 1 you failed 4 in a row - by your own admission 2 are avoidable - you know when you are getting fed and when you need to go to bed. Id have told the neighbour id be there in 30 mins so you failed 1 due to game mechanics
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Pt 2 Why should it be instantly available on a galaxy so huge? I don't have a problem with calling your ship - however my view is it takes 24hrs for every 120LY and costs equivalent to you insurance to shift it to you
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Pt 3 I do agree with being interested to know about how multicrew will work if you end up at a station where you have no ships and multicrew ends - but its not worth talking about until we see how it will be done
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Pt 4 if you go silent running and then boost you do realise that you are leaving a great biug trail behind you that points directly at your ship?
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Pt 5 if you have a mission to kill pilot x and find him in and he is in a lawless system do you scan or shoot first? I shoot him straight off - no need to wait on a scan why should NPC's

 

[777Driver]

.
Pt 2 Why should it be instantly available on a galaxy so huge? I don't have a problem with calling your ship - however my view is it takes 24hrs for every 120LY and costs equivalent to you insurance to shift it to you

That sounds a little too excessive My fully loaded T9 takes 9 minutes to jump 120LY, it wouldn't make much sense waiting 24 hours to have it brought to me. Will be interesting to see how they balance it, perhaps they will add different levels of service depending on price.

 

[Mephane]

Why should every single game out there bend over backwards for the casual market? I respect casuals but its scary how many games are being made boring , easy and shallow...
Even ArmA has gone done that road to a extent with A3 (still love it)

Elite is ment to be played as a life sim not a game... there is no end goal.

sorry if I sound agresive thats not my intent but I feel that elite being elite the game that used to hate players and do everything in its power to kill or just make you loose profit left right and center and everything else inbetween has gone very soft. the game needs more layers not less

Sorry, but having the option to pause and continue later has nothing to with "catering to the casuals". It's not even related to the difficulty of the game, but just a thing that acknowledges that real life happens so why not come back tomorrow to continue where you left.

 

[babelfisch]

[*]Mission timers that don't stop when I exit the game

• So in this ED game the simulation ticks once a day, maybe twice? PowerPlay ticks once a week.
• But Mission timers cannot be delayed!
• I kid you not, I have failed 4 missions in a row because one of my kids threw up and I had to log off, a neighbor came over needing help, the wife demanded I stop for dinner with the family, and once I realized it was after midnight and I needed to sleep for work the next day and could not wait the hour still to go on holding the data.
• These missions are not critical to the game, to the BGS or to anyone but the Pilot that took them
• Why can't FD relax this burdensome rule and let me take a mission I want and then "pause" it when I have to log off
• In game time versus real time works for this, maybe not for other parts of the game, but this I just don't get

Missions get generated by and affect the state of the BGS. For example a system in famine doesn't need your food anymore when the state ended.

[*]Reputation Decay

• FD will sacrifice any aspect of "realism" for fun, such as Yaw
• But NOT pointless reputation decay as a "realistic" mechanism
• if I can't live in the game the in game RNG NPC's that aren't even persistent (maybe some of them changing with 2.1), and don't exist in my instance when I shut the game down, somehow get snotty and think I don't deserve the rep earned because it's been two weeks since I logged in
• It is a game FD, not my life, what gives?

Reputation decay is a myth, it basically doesn't exist because it stops at the top lvl of friendly. You just need to do 1-2 missions in order to get allied again. Anyway IIRC they want to look at rep decay again with the new reputation mechanics for minor factions in 2.1.

[*]No ship transport mechanic

• I get a Viper with all A modules, kitted out the way I want
• I decide I'd like an exploration ship or to just try something new
• I store the Viper and proceed to fly about
• A couple weeks later I want the Viper but it is 1,000 LY away and will take me 30-40 minutes of mindless jumping to get back to it
• If I sell the Viper then I will have to spend weeks re-kitting it with the modules I've found at the random spots in the game (since in the future apparently no ship-yard stocks everything or can re-order out-of-stock items from Amazon 3300= see FD making something "fun" but not "realistic" again!)
• make it magic like the transition to the SRV- I can call any ship I have for a cost based on distance, but after paying it will instantly be available in the starport where I am docked
• It is just a game, realistic or not. Will be like Multi-crew- to be fun FD won't be able to force us to dock and load on the friends ship all the time, there will have to be "teleportation", immersion be darned

I think ship transportation is something they want to implement when they are ready.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Soviet Union didn't all run by Moscow time obsiously) Just a little off-topic.

No, but it was on all the radio announcements and depending on your gig, it counted like UTC counts in the west.

Obviously you milk the cows at dawn whatever it says on the clock.



Edit: Did I just respond to an obviously with an obviously?

obviously?
obviously.

please kill me now, I just make up stuff and say it like its god's truth.

Obviously.

 

[bamber]

That sounds a little too excessive My fully loaded T9 takes 9 minutes to jump 120LY, it wouldn't make much sense waiting 24 hours to have it brought to me. Will be interesting to see how they balance it, perhaps they will add different levels of service depending on price.

my view is that you would need to find a taxi driver - that taxi driver then needs to get to your ship, check it out and then he needs to search out a wing to fly in (as he is guaranteeing the safe arrival). He will then route around systems that are in anarchy or with any conflict zones also adding time - he will then have rest rules etc that he has to follow. All this means it takes a long time to move

What we should have is little ships flitting round the galaxy looking for the big missions and then insta-calling them up to do those missions so making it possible but really painful is the way I would go

 

[Geehawk]

Just have to say I agree with the OP 100%.
I was so looking forwards to offline play, but cancelled my preorder when it was dropped.
I eventually gave in and purchased ED on sale before Christmas, spent over 50 hours off and on working my way up to a Cobra (timing out many mission along the way), and have hardly touched it since.
It is not a game which rewards anything other than long hours spent playing, hours I don't have, and dipping in and out every so often or so does not work as it would appear the 'rules' have changed each time I log on with some, buff, nerf, balancing etc..

As many people state round here "it's not the game for you" which is a great shame because there seems to be no good reason that it could not have been a game for all.

 

[babelfisch]

As many people state round here "it's not the game for you" which is a great shame because there seems to be no good reason that it could not have been a game for all.

1. There are no "games for all".
2. If they exist it don't like them, go back to point 1.

 

[Caramel Clown]

No, but it was on all the radio announcements and depending on your gig, it counted like UTC counts in the west.

Obviously you milk the cows at dawn whatever it says on the clock.



Edit: Did I just respond to an obviously with an obviously?

obviously?
obviously.

please kill me now, I just make up stuff and say it like its god's truth.

Obviously.

It's all too...obvious Yes, it was used as a reference for other time zones...obviously) In that case, your first statement makes perfect sense. Obv....okay okay, that was the last one.

 

[Gedemon]

Sorry, but having the option to pause and continue later has nothing to with "catering to the casuals". It's not even related to the difficulty of the game, but just a thing that acknowledges that real life happens so why not come back tomorrow to continue where you left.

"Pause" is not viable for MP, the core of the problem is the absence of the offline mode.

 

[Mephane]

"Pause" is not viable for MP, the core of the problem is the absence of the offline mode.

Le sigh. No one is talking about pausing the flow of moment-to-moment gameplay here. It is just about the mission timers ticking down even when not logged into the game.

Missions get generated by and affect the state of the BGS. For example a system in famine doesn't need your food anymore when the state ended.

And to repeat myself even within the same thread, because even after I said it, the "but BGS" argument is brought up yet again: missions could simply not produce any BGS effect if their actual completion is after the time would have expired had it run in real-time.

And regarding the point about "doesn't need your food any more" - seriously, who cares? If you want to play the BGS, you would have to do the mission on real-time, if you don't and just want to get it done on your own schedule, you also wouldn't care whether it fits into any story about a local famine any more.

 

[jamesremuscat]

I've said this before, but FD could have avoided a heck of a lot of problems and complaints by:

* Including a UTC clock on the HUD;
* Correctly labelling missions as "must be completed by YYYY-MM-DD HH:mm"

The previous games got this right... and yet it's not too late to fix this. Shouldn't even need to change any of the mission logic, just the views.

 

[Count]

That pretty much sums it up. Regarding a clock, we have a clock and date in the galmap & system map, a small clock on the HUD or side menu's would be a nice addition. In VR I use voice attack to read me the time, can't see how it is a problem for non VR users, can't you just look at your phone or a clock? Even my HOTAS displays current time & UTC.

The only way you can get insta killed is if you are flying a badly kitted out ship. Can't comment on insta scans, have never seen it happen, the bulk of my gaming is smuggling in the slowest ship in ED - Does anyone have a video of these insta scans?

The insta-scans seem to happen if you take a secret-data mission. What I have found is since the last update the NPCs behave differently towards you depending on the missions you have taken. I can no longer do Salvage missions because you get followed and interdicted by an NPC, meaning you have to keep respawning the sites, and sometimes can NEVER reach them, getting stuck in a loop.

I also used to enjoy data-smuggling missions. But since the last update, an NPC seems to be waiting for you to drop out at the station. I went from enjoying 100% success with these missions to 100% failure - this was due to NPCs waiting for you to drop out. You drop out of SC at the station, and there is literally an NPC there, in front of you facing you, immediately scans and you fail the mission. No time to react. If you're just plain smuggling goods this wont happen, but if you take a mission it seems to.

I get fed up of testing new mission types and of failing them, and not being able to work out if its a bug or just my technique, so I just don't bother anymore. Just basic delivery of resource missions that is all I do.

Thankfully this is all rendered moot as they are overhauling the missions in the next update.

 

[tomalus]

The insta-scans seem to happen if you take a secret-data mission. What I have found is since the last update the NPCs behave differently towards you depending on the missions you have taken. I can no longer do Salvage missions because you get followed and interdicted by an NPC, meaning you have to keep respawning the sites, and sometimes can NEVER reach them, getting stuck in a loop.

I also used to enjoy data-smuggling missions. But since the last update, an NPC seems to be waiting for you to drop out at the station. I went from enjoying 100% success with these missions to 100% failure - this was due to NPCs waiting for you to drop out. You drop out of SC at the station, and there is literally an NPC there, in front of you facing you, immediately scans and you fail the mission. No time to react. If you're just plain smuggling goods this wont happen, but if you take a mission it seems to.

I get fed up of testing new mission types and of failing them, and not being able to work out if its a bug or just my technique, so I just don't bother anymore. Just basic delivery of resource missions that is all I do.

Thankfully this is all rendered moot as they are overhauling the missions in the next update.

Doing the same thing again and again is called insanity, so expecting them to fix the things they keep doing the same over and over every patch is in fact Insanity.

 

[CMDR Mansoul]

I agree with you OP. I've been playing for almost a year and I'm still bitter about the yaw nerf. Also about the lack of rotational assist. This what we have now is not the proper way to handle spaceships. And a joystick is for planes, not space. Elite 2 and 3 did it right back then.

Oh well, I'll keep playing a bit at a time until a proper space game shows up. Maybe give Evochron Legacy a chance in spite of the brutal combat.

 

[cpunk]

+rep OP, reputation decay is a big concern. I lose 1% per day I'm not playing. I don't understand ! I was 100% once and it means I have to play everyday to maintain it so? that is quite sad!

 

[lefty1117]

I think the main places where casuals are screwed is in CGs, and in the merit rank in powerplay. Most everything else is on a linear progression and can be achieved over time. In the CGs you're dealing with a proportional scale, so there's a huge disadvantage if you can't set aside the time. Don't know what can be done with that, I think it's just a fact of life. On Powerplay, the merits have to be re-earned and maintaining rank 5 as a casual means you're going to spend most if not all of your play time in a week just running on that treadmill. I think there are things that can be done with PP to fix that, which I have posted elsewhere, but probably too deep and complex to change at this point, without a Seasons release dedicated to it.

 

[pindleton]

I just wanted to say--missions do affect the BGS. Mission outcomes can affect minor/major faction standings in the system that the missions were taken and can affect system status (Boom, Bust, War, etc)

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Le sigh. No one is talking about pausing the flow of moment-to-moment gameplay here. It is just about the mission timers ticking down even when not logged into the game.



And to repeat myself even within the same thread, because even after I said it, the "but BGS" argument is brought up yet again: missions could simply not produce any BGS effect if their actual completion is after the time would have expired had it run in real-time.

And regarding the point about "doesn't need your food any more" - seriously, who cares? If you want to play the BGS, you would have to do the mission on real-time, if you don't and just want to get it done on your own schedule, you also wouldn't care whether it fits into any story about a local famine any more.

Please read: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=193064

 

[Kristov]

So, the OP wants a real time online multiplayer game to accommodate his personal schedule and it sucks that it doesn't do so.

Hey there! Welcome to the Internet and Online Gaming, we're so glad you could find your way to these, always glad to have newcomers!

A few things you need to understand before you get started..

1) Your personal schedule is YOUR problem, no one else's! If this isn't a concept you are familiar with, well, I honestly don't know what to say, even children understand this concept, how a presumed adult doesn't understand is beyond me.

2) Real time online multiplayer games don't stop running because you leave the game, they continue running and events happen regardless of your existence inside the game world. Missions have a set time they can be completed it, always given to you upfront, if you don't have the required time to do them, don't take them. See point 1 about schedule conflicts.

There are probably other things that will happen due to it being an online real time multiplayer game that doesn't stop because you leave the game, and you may have issues with these other things, only advice that I can give, suck it up buttercup. This isn't new, it's been a thing for over a decade going back to games like UO and EQ and even farther back to MUDs and BBS games. Your complaints aren't new, they aren't unique, and they've been answered thousands of times already and those answers don't change, your personal schedule is YOUR problem, there's hundreds of thousands of other people using the same game world all the time, no one putting YOU above anyone else. This isn't Burger King, you don't get things your way.