CG, game itself actually encouraging cheating??

[Iron Golem]

Ill relog data at Jamesons or Megaships because organically collecting it is a nightmare for me and not fun at all.

I have never used Davs Hope and consider manufactured and raws to be reasonable to collect for the most part organically (I am not passed going to the crystals though for efficiency sake).

I am hoping the raw side feels more organic and less gamey with the planetary reworks with the heat maps, but that remains to be seen.

 

[Bob McBobblehead]

Gathering encoded data has to much RNG which is why lots of people just use the Jameson crash site and material trader instead.

 

[rrobes]

I find that relogging for anything truly sucks the soul out of the game, much less yourself.

Repetitive actions repels me now. I won’t spend hours bumping around in an SRV looking for mats, this in turn dissuades me from buying ships and engineering them.

If I search for mats, it’s only for entertainment, though IMHO, FD messed up when it made material trading such a drag, making certain materials too scarce. It forces you to trade, another soul-sucking mechanic.

Unintended consequences.

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

FDev touched on it earlier this week in a live stream saying that they are looking into ways to address the relog issue. The only reason people do it is because it is the easy way, then they get used to it then will complain when their free meal ticket expires. I have a near G5 Cutter and haven't done the relog game, over time playing, aside from the raw materials planet-side, the other data just comes naturally by playing and doing missions. But hey, who does missions anymore when there is a cash cow with 10+ FC's orbiting it

You can get Manufactured by few methods, fastest one (IMO) being HGE farm, which is utterly braindead in actions you have to perform, but doesn't feel as cheesy as Encoded one. Geo Site farming can actually be fun, at least for the first 10 minutes and also doesn't rely on relogs.

Jameson's is so popular because it is virtually the only reliable source of G5 encoded. Other sources either give rare drops of low grade trash or nothing at all. Missions are pure RNG, so you can't rely on them for decent Encoded income. But in big picture Jameson's still sucks, because you get only one type of G5 and G4, while traders ripping you off good on cross trade.

If ship scans did have higher chance to drop random G5 occasionally and if every outpost beacon/any other surface scannable did have guaranteed random G5 drop, pretty sure Jameson's would be forgotten like a bad dream, and they could safely set relog "protection" on these scannables, players wouldn't care.

 

[Katie Byrne]

So I saw CG top 75% earn 144 million, thought I would gather some data, looked for some resource on efficient means to do so.

Found Exigeous youtube video telling you to log/relog at jamesone crash site repeatedly.

Of course I can't do that because I have a soul. I am super disappointed that not only has that loop not been closed, but apparently passively encouraged for exploitation, (and actively so by leading fans)

So, what, do I have to cheat too .

I can only imagine re-logging was crucial to gathering guardian artifacts as well.

What are you doing?

dude its not cheating - its a badly designed system.

for example in the AX community - in order to take on the toughest fights you NEED certain mats to be full for ammo synth, heatsink synth etc. The only realistic way to take part in high level AX is to relog mat sites or HGE's.

If you ask me should the system be rethought - i'd say yes. But atm there are many legitimate reasons to relog for mats

far too many CMDRs think that they are just for engineering

 

[Jmanis]

...Missions are pure RNG, ...

What part of missions? The mission rewards certainly aren't... you want G5 data? You need to take missions that will pay =~ 1.5m+ for G5 rewards, noting there's a good chance of 5 x G4 unless you're taking missions over 2m, at which point it's pretty guaranteed. How and where certain mission types spawn, including those that will send you to places where you can get lots of data along the way, is pretty predictable, even if some of the more specific mechanics aren't known.

In the course of doing missions you'll then be exposed to plenty of ways of getting data along the way. Is it random? Sure, but you're still guaranteed at least a half-dozen opportunities along the way, whether it's scanning ships, wakes, mission targets, and then ofc the mission reward itself etc.

Where people royally screw it up is they go out seeking a specific data type and ignore everything except that. That's a highway to hell you simply can't recover from. If people simply got on with playing the game instead of following these absolutely outdated guides, they'd find themselves awash with all the materials and data they need.

Raw is the only one I've ever found difficult to come across, and that's resolved easily enough by a visit to crystalline shards... but thats just an inconvenient trip compared to getting manufactured or data.

Problem really continues to be that people get to the game, google "how do i get mats" and get these stupidly outdated guides. It's almost like a cult these days.

 

[Drelthar]

Relogging to gather mats isn't cheating

/thread.

It's not no.

Just terrible game design.

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

What part of missions? The mission rewards certainly aren't... you want G5 data? You need to take missions that will pay =~ 1.5m+ for G5 rewards, noting there's a good chance of 5 x G4 unless you're taking missions over 2m, at which point it's pretty guaranteed. How and where certain mission types spawn, including those that will send you to places where you can get lots of data along the way, is pretty predictable, even if some of the more specific mechanics aren't known.

In the course of doing missions you'll then be exposed to plenty of ways of getting data along the way. Is it random? Sure, but you're still guaranteed at least a half-dozen opportunities along the way, whether it's scanning ships, wakes, mission targets, and then ofc the mission reward itself etc.

Where people royally screw it up is they go out seeking a specific data type and ignore everything except that. That's a highway to hell you simply can't recover from. If people simply got on with playing the game instead of following these absolutely outdated guides, they'd find themselves awash with all the materials and data they need.

Raw is the only one I've ever found difficult to come across, and that's resolved easily enough by a visit to crystalline shards... but thats just an inconvenient trip compared to getting manufactured or data.

Problem really continues to be that people get to the game, google "how do i get mats" and get these stupidly outdated guides. It's almost like a cult these days.

There already been discussions on it, so we're beating dead horse here. Even if you come across station that offers you G5 encoded rewards you need, missions take quite a lot of time to complete for only few units. Getting mats like that will take eternity.

And as I pointed in other similar threads: played for more than a year until I got into engineering. Been doing all kinds activities, moving from place to place, and playing quite a lot. But when I actually started upgrading, I had mostly low grade garbage and nothing of what I really needed. If I didn't follow guides, I would probably had one ship engineered to G3-4 at best and that's it. But thanks to them, I have fleet of ships, fully G5 for all purposes I need, and never have to get into this mess again, so I'm finally free to enjoy game however I like.

A lot of people I talked to had same experience as I. Maybe someone who has been playing for ~5 years miraculously got bins full of G5s, but usually, if you just playing casually, you want get anything useful. You need to know where to get what. It's not a thing only with mats like this in ED, but pretty much anything.

 

[Jmanis]

There already been discussions on it, so we're beating dead horse here. Even if you come across station that offers you G5 encoded rewards you need, missions take quite a lot of time to complete for only few units. Getting mats like that will take eternity.

And as I pointed in other similar threads: played for more than a year until I got into engineering. Been doing all kinds activities, moving from place to place, and playing quite a lot. But when I actually started upgrading, I had mostly low grade garbage and nothing of what I really needed. If I didn't follow guides, I would probably had one ship engineered to G3-4 at best and that's it. But thanks to them, I have fleet of ships, fully G5 for all purposes I need, and never have to get into this mess again, so I'm finally free to enjoy game however I like.

A lot of people I talked to had same experience as I. Maybe someone who has been playing for ~5 years miraculously got bins full of G5s, but usually, if you just playing casually, you want get anything useful. You need to know where to get what. It's not a thing only with mats like this in ED, but pretty much anything.

shrug. You're right, it is a dead horse, mostly because people won't be saved from themselves at any cost.

All I know is that it seems like people who use these guides complain about engineering/mat collection being a grind. Those who don't, well, don't. This talk of it taking an eternity is, bluntly, wrong.

 

[Amanojaku]

There are 3 types of CMDRs when it comes to this issue:

1.) CMDRs who feel that exploits are immersion-breaking or "cheating. They think that logging sucks the fun out of the game, and the fun is in the "journey". They aren't wrong, because farming anything in a video game that requires you to relog gets tedious and boring.

2.) Ship builders and combat pilots who have more fun AFTER their ship's are done. They think that it takes too long without logging to fully engineer a ship. They aren't wrong either. It does, and the material traders 6-to-1 "deal" is the kind you'd get from a used car salesman.

3.) The CMDRs who belong in category 1 or 2 who insist their way of playing is the only way to play, and quite frankly, more often than not it's CMDRs from category 1. Sorry but you're wrong. You're idea of fun is not the same as everone else's idea of fun. Although I do understand that CMDRs in category 1 get sick of CMDRs in category 2 always complaining about the engineering grind when they have 5000+ G5 upgrades in their codex.

This game is grind on top of grind and everyone knows it. ED players just have different opinions on what parts of the grind are fun. This entire issue could be avoided if Fdev made a wider variety of mats more easily accessible. They could give them out as part of PP rewards, CG rewards, etc. And imo Raws need to be added to the list of mats given out as mission rewards. None of this has been addressed in years, and if it was, I guarantee NO ONE would be complaining.

 

[Susanna]

It's not cheating, it's a tolerated exploit.

So why was relogging into the different play modes to respawn different missions for stacking stopped if relogging to farm mats is allowed? Seems to be an inconsistent train of logic there for me...

Still, I'm milking this CG as much as I can until fdev breaks Jameson's crash site too...

 

[Susanna]

Yep, gather mats/data for engineering, and synth, becomes a lot more time consuming without relog. Even with Traders. Fully engineering one of the big 4 takes hundreds of mats/data. Killing relog at Dav's/Jameson's crash and the like will definitely cause the salt to flow.

Fdev would have to be really out of touch, as in a galaxy away sort of out of touch with their game if they did not know how the data for this CG was going to be gathered. Jameson crash relog. Fly to Jameson Crash, 10-15 minutes of relogs, then off to trader, then off to turn in, then back to Jameson. It's a 30-40 minute game loop.

I can't do it quicker than 1 hour to gather the Mats fly to the CG, hand in and back to the crash site again. I've timed it several times.

 

[Susanna]

Never relogged to gather mats yet, maybe I am playing the game wrong?

Depends upon how much you want results over ethics...

 

[BL1P]

When surface mats at geo and bio sites were first released in the game.
You could re-log and farm them over and over.
to stop that exploit Fdev introduced a very long timer on those geo and bio mats.
Why dont they just add the same timers to every other perm mat producing sites in the game ?

Once all mats have a timer that cannot be exploited.
Take a good look at how long it takes someone to collect mats and then re-work the spawn amounts or permit player-player trading of mats.

 

[Bigmaec]

When surface mats at geo and bio sites were first released in the game.
You could re-log and farm them over and over.
to stop that exploit Fdev introduced a very long timer on those geo and bio mats.
Why dont they just add the same timers to every other perm mat producing sites in the game ?

Once all mats have a timer that cannot be exploited.
Take a good look at how long it takes someone to collect mats and then re-work the spawn amounts or permit player-player trading of mats.

Because of the riots of people who don't know better than to relog.

Although I plan to test Jamesons today, I never was there and what I hear it's really insanely effective.
Shame on FD putting in such a CG, even more shame on them not cracking down on relogging.

 

[Eymerich]

They've been looking into preventing relogging since 16 December 2014.

And they were succesfull unfortunatly: with mission board... at the point that after that "fix" i reduced 2/3 times of my playing time in elite....

 

[yianniv]

I concur that relogging to gather mats is a very bad game design. I know for a fact, however, that without it, the Colonia Engineers wouldn't have reached G5 yet.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

The real problem is people's OCD in wanting everything maxed out.

You don't need to G5 absolutely everything, unless you're doing competitive PvP. The majority of players don't.

 

[yianniv]

The real problem is people's OCD in wanting everything maxed out.

You don't need to G5 absolutely everything, unless you're doing competitive PvP. The majority of players don't.

But, but, but, but, but, but.....

 

[Brrokk]

Relogging isn't cheating, and it isn't an exploit.

(In a game I define "cheating" as doing something I've previously agreed not to do, and "exploit" as something the publisher has said I'm not supposed to do).

In my opinion it's bad game design and bad (immersion-breaking) play. I don't expect everyone to share my opinion though.