CG predictions...

Jmanis

Jmanis
Raxiel said:
Thanks, is that 4 out of 8? I've had a few more runs out tonight, 50 limpets each time.
Last one I killed all but one scout and fired all 8 into it, then another 8 once they came back.
Got multiple returns each time, averaged out a hair above 50% on that one with 22, which was more than I expected, but in line with what you're seeing?
Two other runs had 4 and 5 scouts respectively I spammed the limpets but tried to keep them spread out across all targets I got 33 & 30 back so slightly higher success but still could be within the bounds of RNG

So if there is a cooldown its just a soft one influencing some RNG, either that or there isn't one and I'm just seeing a pattern where it doesn't exist.

I also had a crack at a Medusa, just because I don't have a sample from one. Fired 8 limpets, 6 died (the only time tonight I heard the limpet had failed from COVAS, around the time I ed it off) and of the two that survived to return only one had a sample. I didn't hang around for a second salvo.
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Nope, 4/4. I posted above, but of 26 launches, 22 came back with a scout sample, the other 4 I was able to observe destruction of the sample via a collision.

Limpets dying can happen if you stray too far... though that distance is further than the 2km max launch range.

It's not some RNG cooldown though, it's just a bug outright. People (and probably FD too, since this is a five-years-old bug) just forget the sample rate off everything used to be 100%. My suspicion is that, because Interceptors used to not scoop tissue samples, the change to make them scoop them means the sample gets "scooped" by the interceptor as it spawns on the limpet (as the spawn/sample location is in the center-rear of the interceptor, while the "scoop" point is center-front... and you want the scoop point away from the body or you risk a collision).

Even if, in some parallel universe, this wasn't a bug, I'd be arguing the text description of the limpet controller should describe that in some form, as it's definitely 100% off deep space organics. To silently differentiate would be bad design.

Factabulous said:
I have a few more data points than you 🤷‍♀️
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I get what you're saying, but with your claim of about ~56%... that means me getting 26 successful samples from 26 limpets, (acknowledging that 4 succeeded but were destroyed), that's event has a 0.0000000537% chance of occurring. Even if I was wrong about those 4 failures... that's just a 0.02% of that event occurring. You gotta admit, the odds here are very unlikely.
 

Sombient

Sombient
CMDR @Brrokk has been doing science. These are their results taken from the current CG thread:

Here are 6 consecutive results today of using a salvo of 11 research limpets (one universal controller and three size 1s). Again, I noted that you can see which ones are carrying samples on the radar. Samples are therefore lost at extraction rather than arrival back at the ship.
  • 7/11 Medusa samples
  • 9/11 Cyclops samples
  • 5/11 Cyclops samples
  • 5 /11 Cyclops samples
  • 9/11 Cyclops samples
  • 2/11 Cyclops samples
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I'm planning to add to the science by tomorrow night with my own run of tests on a 13 limpet build. o7
 

Raxiel

Raxiel
Jmanis said:
Nope, 4/4. I posted above, but of 26 launches, 22 came back with a scout sample, the other 4 I was able to observe destruction of the sample via a collision.

Limpets dying can happen if you stray too far... though that distance is further than the 2km max launch range.

It's not some RNG cooldown though, it's just a bug outright. People (and probably FD too, since this is a five-years-old bug) just forget the sample rate off everything used to be 100%. My suspicion is that, because Interceptors used to not scoop tissue samples, the change to make them scoop them means the sample gets "scooped" by the interceptor as it spawns on the limpet (as the spawn/sample location is in the center-rear of the interceptor, while the "scoop" point is center-front... and you want the scoop point away from the body or you risk a collision).

Even if, in some parallel universe, this wasn't a bug, I'd be arguing the text description of the limpet controller should describe that in some form, as it's definitely 100% off deep space organics. To silently differentiate would be bad design.
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I've yet to see anything close to 100% return rate on samples from scouts, either with 8 per target, 2 or 1. Except the time I fired a single limpet at one scout and waited for the result. There's been 100% return on the limpets themselves. I don't think it's a range issue. With the samples visible on the radar I can have multiple limpets on the scout drop off in quick succession and see how many worked immediately all at close to the same range.

Your scoop theory is plausible, but I don't think it can be proven or disproven with the information available to players. Still have to resolve the missing returns from scouts.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Raxiel said:
I've yet to see anything close to 100% return rate on samples from scouts, either with 8 per target, 2 or 1. Except the time I fired a single limpet at one scout and waited for the result. There's been 100% return on the limpets themselves. I don't think it's a range issue. With the samples visible on the radar I can have multiple limpets on the scout drop off in quick succession and see how many worked immediately all at close to the same range.

Your scoop theory is plausible, but I don't think it can be proven or disproven with the information available to players. Still have to resolve the missing returns from scouts.
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sigh @Factabulous, you were right

Yeah, so today I've jumped on and got nowhere near 100% for scouts. NFI what happened last night, since a ~56% standard success rate translating to a 100% success rate across 26 samples last night (again noting, even if I'm wrong on the collisions, that's still a 1 in 5000 event) is grossly unlikely.

So.... still bugged all to hell. I'm going to fork this off to a separate thread (though I'll post it in this part of the forums since there'll probably be people wondering if it's bugged or not on the day) since this is the "CG Predictions" thread, not the "Jmanis whines about Research Limpets" thread :)

Now just to hope FD set realistic targets on this one...
 
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GraphiteGB

GraphiteGB
Salvation Strengthens Bonds with Superpowers


GALNET

SALVATION STRENGTHENS BONDS WITH SUPERPOWERS​

18 APR 3308
The anonymous anti-xeno scientist Salvation has received further military support from the Alliance, Empire and Federation.
Multiple official sources have highlighted the increasing number of crew members being seconded from the Alliance Defence Force, Federal Navy and Imperial Navy. Previously, enlisted members had been forced to resign their commissions, but regulatory changes now permit temporarily serving on vessels owned by Salvation’s commercial partner Taurus Mining Ventures.

One of the recent volunteers, Lieutenant Andrew Jones, was quoted by Vox Galactica:
“Most of us are here because it feels like Salvation is the only one taking the fight to the Thargoids. Now that Aegis is as good as gone, he’s our best hope for stopping these aliens before they wipe us all out.”

Other non-naval recruits from the superpowers are providing support in intelligence, logistics and security. A number of specialists are alleged to be working directly with Salvation on his anti-xeno superweapons, which are derived from Guardian technology.

In related news, scientific research journal The Empirical reported that no evidence of atypical radiation has been detected in the Synuefe CE-R C21-6 system. This has raised questions as to the purpose of Taurus Mining Ventures’s recent mining operation.
 

Cmdr. Numa

Cmdr. Numa
St0rmFury said:
I'm not getting good vibes for the next CG... will we even get enough participants?
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I'm undecided yet. The cargo racks interest me, but I'd have to kit a ship with the current ones, since those samples are corrosive. I could kit a Cobra IV with Xeno Controller, or I just ignore the corrosion and simply go with my T10 miner which has a universal limpet controller. Just how bad is the corrosion ?
 

Raxiel

Raxiel
Cmdr. Numa said:
I'm undecided yet. The cargo racks interest me, but I'd have to kit a ship with the current ones, since those samples are corrosive. I could kit a Cobra IV with Xeno Controller, or I just ignore the corrosion and simply go with my T10 miner which has a universal limpet controller. Just how bad is the corrosion ?
Click to expand...
It's not awful in a big ship with plenty of integrity to start with. On the occasion I overspilled the 16t CRCR I had maybe 25-30 samples in the regular rack and it didn't cause any problems in the 20 minutes or so I had them burning away before I unloaded.

It was notable however, how much more expensive the repairs were compared to the pure hull damage that scouts normally do.

If you were going to just tank it, I'd suggest sticking some MRP's (Guardian ones if you have them) in the military slots. I don't know for sure if they help or not, but I was using my AX ship which has three of them and that might be why they weren't too problematic for me.
Edit: Ignore all that.

Right now I'm running 3xC4 racks and 1xC1 for a total of 50. Each run out with those 50 limpets takes about 12 minutes plus supercruise time. Thats using a 7A controller and 8 limpets out at all times. Theres a bit of variation with limpet flight time, but the extraction time itself presents a hard limit on how fast you can gather.
 
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Jmanis

Jmanis
Cmdr. Numa said:
I'm undecided yet. The cargo racks interest me, but I'd have to kit a ship with the current ones, since those samples are corrosive. I could kit a Cobra IV with Xeno Controller, or I just ignore the corrosion and simply go with my T10 miner which has a universal limpet controller. Just how bad is the corrosion ?
Click to expand...
The corrosion is very bad. A single thargoid item can take out your canopy in 20 hits.

That might not seem too bad, but it means 20 or more unshielded thargoid items will one-shot your canopy, and AFMUs can't save you at that point. It'll also wreck many more subsystems in a single hit, such as cargo hold and the like, so you're highly likely to lose all those items unless you plan accordingly and have good actions-on planned.

For reference, my record number of unshielded items carried at once was around 30... the risk comes from the time taken to gather that many. By the time i reached my target, most subsystems were at 10-30% integrity, if not destroyed outright.

The CG text notes that these CRCRs will be "... needed for the next phase of Palin's operation" so i can only anticipate that there will somehow be a need to transport multiple hundreds of items... though since there's no ready source of that many at once, I'm not sure how this will play out.
 

GraphiteGB

GraphiteGB
Phase 2 would likely be planet based corrosive items.. When you have to park on planets You have even longer wait times as SRV would be doing it 4 at a time... Going over by 4 at a time would increase damage to ship.
Having to Fly to move the jump point to line of sight adds time from planet surface... or adds extra jumps to avoid having to mess with lining up the jump...
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Jmanis said:
Now just to hope FD set realistic targets on this one...
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This is more my worry - since sampling takes a known time and we have a good idea of a maximum yield, which is only maybe 200/hr (not including hand-in). So if ppl do 5 hours and we get 1000 CMDRs involved that would still only be 200 * 5 * 1000 = 1M samples. And ofc many will do far less than that (can't blame them :) ).

Also worrying if the tiers are like we saw in the leak as we will struggle to hit a high T1 as progress will be slow - hopefully the tiers were from the current CG.

Jmanis said:
The CG text notes that these CRCRs will be "... needed for the next phase of Palin's operation" so i can only anticipate that there will somehow be a need to transport multiple hundreds of items... though since there's no ready source of that many at once, I'm not sure how this will play out.
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Interesting - hadn't noticed that. Will be interesting to see how the CRCR are made available, as 1 of each as a reward won't be much use. And then we can get on with complaining about the lack of size 7 & 8 :)
 

GraphiteGB

GraphiteGB
Yong-Rui: ‘History Will Judge Sirius’


GALNET

YONG-RUI: ‘HISTORY WILL JUDGE SIRIUS’​

19 APR 3308
The CEO of Sirius Corporation has addressed public concerns regarding its anti-xeno defence pact with the Alliance.
Li Yong-Rui’s comments were made during an in-depth interview with The Alliance Tribune:
“The best way to predict the future is to study the past. This is as true of interstellar organisations as it is of individuals – our former actions indicate the probability of behaviour. So I invite you to study the role that Sirius Corporation has previously played on the political stage.”
“Ever since the Battle of Achenar and the widespread conflicts of the 2300s, our neutrality has allowed us to mediate between the Empire and the Federation on many occasions. More recently, we defused inter-power tensions by establishing the Marlinist Colonies, which provided permanent homes for millions of refugees.”
“It should also not be overlooked that the Galactic Summit was hosted in the Sirius system, where we encouraged humanity’s leaders to peacefully debate their differences. Furthermore, our development of the frame shift drive has revolutionised exploration and allowed many independent societies to flourish.”
“Some continue to cast aspersions on our strategic partnership with the Alliance, and I fully understand their caution. The fear that corporations can only act self-servingly is born from a millennium of notable examples. But it is history that will judge Sirius Corporation’s efforts to defend and preserve civilisation. I truly hope the Alliance will play a significant role in those efforts.”
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Factabulous said:
This is more my worry - since sampling takes a known time and we have a good idea of a maximum yield, which is only maybe 200/hr (not including hand-in). So if ppl do 5 hours and we get 1000 CMDRs involved that would still only be 200 * 5 * 1000 = 1M samples. And ofc many will do far less than that (can't blame them :) ).

Also worrying if the tiers are like we saw in the leak as we will struggle to hit a high T1 as progress will be slow - hopefully the tiers were from the current CG.


Interesting - hadn't noticed that. Will be interesting to see how the CRCR are made available, as 1 of each as a reward won't be much use. And then we can get on with complaining about the lack of size 7 & 8 :)
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200/hr is pretty generous. I'd be erring on planning at most 100, especially with the bug as it is right now.

WRT the cargo racks, the text i yoinked didn't have what the goals/ tier rewards were, so maybe the bigger crcrs will become commercially available later.

But yes, the numbers are a big concern. FD haven't got them right for something like this before.

EDIT: Oh, yeah...
1650375360354.png
 
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Factabulous

Factabulous
Jmanis said:
200/hr is pretty generous. I'd be erring on planning at most 100, especially with the bug as it is right now.
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I can get 100 in just over 30 minutes with sampling how it is. Supercruise times aren't that high ... 🤷‍♀️

Edit: And if I didn't spend most of the time tabbed out doing other stuff it would be faster
 
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