Ships Challenger-ammoless build for CZ

Innocentius

Innocentius
Christian-A-Hill said:
I see you are using Efficient beams in your Vette which has 600m. No issue staying on top of target with that heavy mass?
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Majority of damage from Vette does not come from the beams, but the huge bursts they also have a lot better damage per energy. It does not make much of a difference though regarding the distance. There is no need to stay on top of opponents in CZ unless using short range weapons like frags, they will come to you as long as you are going to the right direction. Most of the combat is done between 500-1500 meters. There is some damage falloff there, but nothing that breaks the build so I do not worry about that. What I basically do is that I reserve the gimballed weapons to engage only at sub 1500 meter distances and observe the distributor charge so I can put out most damage when the distances favor me.

I noticed on your build that it only takes 7 seconds to empty the weapon capacitor even with full pips to weapons. The engineering will eventually help with that, but while those are not fully engineered, it will be quite a problem.

Edit: oh I found an old video about me testing this ship in RES and CZ. Here is the link to the CZ part. Fighting with a wingmate there also so the healing turrets came in handy.
Source: https://youtu.be/UwFJxWkGtR4?t=1146
 
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Innocentius

Innocentius
Oh, looking at that PA build of yours I also found an old video of mine on learning a PA based shield tank build that I made for FAS. (It is unlisted video because it was not worth a real public slot and the audio quality was bad because the recorder used a different mic than I thought it was using).This was among my first runs with it and eventually I got pretty good (for me) in that ship also and I ran it to quite a while CZs also. Basically when I got bored of the Vette I took out the FAS to the same CZs. The combat is a lot faster paced, but the pace of killing is slower and even with plasma slug PAs one needs to head in to refuel quite often. With the ship fuel tank only I had to fuel every 2M in bounties and eventually I put one additional fuel tank on the optional slots and that solved the issue. I found out that I liked the "one turreted laser + rest PAs" approach. I could the concentrate only on getting the PAs to correct position and use the turret to do continual damage and handle any small ships like eagles that can be a pain to hit with PAs often.
Source: https://youtu.be/FJT9U8xs78o
 
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YoEgo

Y
I use the Challenger too. And I also need you not to use ammunition.

You can use plasma slug cannons, they do 10% less damage, but you can shoot as if they were lasers. I recommend you make them efficient, and you can have all three of T2 and T3 as well, no heat damage. However, you must fine-tune your aim, but if you get it all right in some cases it will be an instant kill. The rest use gimbaled lasers.

They don't understand that it's a ship you like (me too), apart, can have the resistance of a T10 and the firepower of an Anaconda, with a very good maneuver and speed, and superior to the previous ships. Its only disadvantage is that its size limits it in the options for optional modules, but, still, it is still very excellent ship. In my opinion, very undervalued.
 

Gully Foyle

Gully Foyle
Christian-A-Hill said:
I know it's The Challenger, it's a ship almost no one seems to care much. I love the engine sound, green cockpit and the ship design! Period! :)

I am trying to build a completely ammoless Challenger to use in conflict zone. I have access to most engineers except Pauline and handful few others. For no ammo obviously lasers are the way to go. I want to focus on taking out shield then power plant. My understanding is if power plant goes, Hull amount really does not matter. Could you offer a Challenger build with moderate engineering or set the record straight if it is not possible? Following are some info to consider:

  • I can't use Fixed weapon at all, yet.
  • I use hotas with VR.
  • I also own a Krait MK2. Am I better off using that instead of Challenger? Hate the Krait interior!
  • Currently I am testing Challenger with 3xC1 Beam Long Range mod, 3xC2 Pulse w/Focused+Scramble Spectrum and 1xC3 Burst w/Focused+Oversized. All gimballed. Having difficulties taking shield down and even more difficulties taking modules/hull down. Takes very long time. Either I end up recharging my bi-weave over dozens of time or the battle is over by then. Could never make more than handful kills.

Thanks!
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You could practise FA off as a toggle not a switch.
It makes aiming fixed weapons wayy easier.and is blistering compared to gimbs or turrets.
 

Christian-A-Hill

Christian-A-Hill
YoEgo said:
They don't understand that it's a ship you like (me too), apart, can have the resistance of a T10 and the firepower of an Anaconda, with a very good maneuver and speed, and superior to the previous ships. Its only disadvantage is that its size limits it in the options for optional modules, but, still, it is still very excellent ship. In my opinion, very undervalued.
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Ah super excited to see another Challenger liker. :)

Since I opened this post, my knowledge on Ships builds, mechanics has been expanded and have G5ed few weapons of choice such as Beams, MCs. Have been trying out both Krait and Challenger with different weapon config and I came to realize Efficient Beams really are great when attempting to go ammoless as much as possible. At least with my limited combat/flying skill. Before I needed to use MC to take down small ships, but now I can nip them with Efficient beam without using MC at all. On My Challenger I currently have Efficient Beams and Overcharged MCs. All gimballed. Never tried Cannon before. On the Krait I am practicing a Focused PA. With increased shot speed I seem to be able to land more shots now.

I just came back from a mini 5k LY exploration to unlock Palin. Right now working on to get the Thrusters modded to G5. After that going to try some Burst/Pulse and see if I can replace those MCs on Challenger to test out initial desire to go fully ammoless. I know PA also has Plasma Slug but that would mean I am also running to Fuel scoop to top off. Just want to see if I can really go on 0 ammo. Everything I can do in the Challenger, I can do it all in Krait mk2 and probably better. But Challenger is my personal hobby project because LOVE it.

One day, mark my word I will replace the Krait with the Challenger. LOL May be Crusader is the right match? Only if I could put the Challenger engine sound and green screens in the Crusader Oh and remove the Crusader spoiler. :D
 

YoEgo

Y
Gully_Foyle said:
You could practise FA off as a toggle not a switch.
It makes aiming fixed weapons wayy easier.and is blistering compared to gimbs or turrets.
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Yes, I've tried... but it drives me crazy, besides, I usually fight past, and my combat range is greater than km... the truth is that plasmas go very well against large ships (and against the Krait, which their profile is like a target), but usually small ships and most medium ones, I find it quite difficult to take them down with plasmas, mostly because I don't hit them , because when I give them, as I say, in some cases it is a satisfying instant kill.
Christian-A-Hill said:
Since I opened this post, my knowledge on Ships builds, mechanics has been expanded and have G5ed few weapons of choice such as Beams, MCs. Have been trying out both Krait and Challenger with different weapon config and I came to realize Efficient Beams really are great when attempting to go ammoless as much as possible. At least with my limited combat/flying skill. Before I needed to use MC to take down small ships, but now I can nip them with Efficient beam without using MC at all. On My Challenger I currently have Efficient Beams and Overcharged MCs. All gimballed. Never tried Cannon before. On the Krait I am practicing a Focused PA. With increased shot speed I seem to be able to land more shots now.
Click to expand...
Efficient lasers are one of my favorites, however, due to the amount of materials to upload them and their damage decreases with respect to the range, I usually use them more long range, and not even to the maximum, with one or two degrees of improvement already covers my expectations ... that's right, you have to keep an eye out for the heat. But the damage remains constant so it is more advantageous from my point of view, especially in the damage/materials spent ratio.
 

Christian-A-Hill

Christian-A-Hill
Gully_Foyle said:
You could practise FA off as a toggle not a switch.
It makes aiming fixed weapons wayy easier.and is blistering compared to gimbs or turrets.
Click to expand...
Do you mean I should try to aim while toggling FA off? Never tried that. I do have the FA on toggle and only use it to make tighter turns.

YoEgo said:
the truth is that plasmas go very well against large ships (and against the Krait, which their profile is like a target), but usually small ships and most medium ones, I find it quite difficult to take them down with plasmas, mostly because I don't hit them , because when I give them, as I say, in some cases it is a satisfying instant kill.
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Totally agree. I did not have any luck nipping small ships with PA even with long range mod added with increased shot speed. Now that I have modded my Beams, I solely use Efficient beams for all small ships and practice PA on larger ships.

YoEgo said:
Efficient lasers are one of my favorites, however, due to the amount of materials to upload them and their damage decreases with respect to the range, I usually use them more long range, and not even to the maximum, with one or two degrees of improvement already covers my expectations ... that's right, you have to keep an eye out for the heat. But the damage remains constant so it is more advantageous from my point of view, especially in the damage/materials spent ratio.
Click to expand...
Before I modded my Beams with Efficient+Thermal Vent, I actually used Long range on all Beams to only Grade 1. That indeed saved lot of mats and I could sit a distance. But yes thermal was an issue. After much tinkering with Ship build on edsy.org and based on suggestions from others, decided to go with Efficient. Heat problem is obviously gone now. Also because I am practicing close combat Efficient seems to give me greater result without any negative effects.
I wander if I can apply all this knowledge gained from Challenger build into Crusader. It is slower I know, but a Condor SLF with Multi cannon may be good addition to increase overall DPS for hull dmg.
 
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