Changes are needed for making claims at new outposts

[Disemboweled Ego]

Yeah I saw this one coming instantly when it was announced that it was first come first serve:

Colonisation Answers

Some answers on Colonisation from Frontier's stream today at Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XopKY1VWyA (Q&A starts about 25 minutes in) (I've shifted a few bits around in the summary here where there were related questions and answers, but I think I've caught all the key points made...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Imo an architect should have the power to veto any colonization from their system for the first 2-4 weeks except for their own claims.

 

[nemolomen]

I'm not sure I understand. You have a bunch of systems already up and running making a chain to another system that you wanted to colonize, your goal was to get to this system and another player claimed it right after your last system went online. Is what i'm reading- Hey that's mine to! I don't think the term "stolen" is accurate by any measure.
And gees how many systems do you need? There's a few billion stars out there, I guarantee there's gonna be a ton of great places to colonize. If I was to make a suggestion for the claiming of a system mine would be the opposite, after colonization the player has a cool down, idk i was thinking a few days, to prevent blatant run away greed, and large areas without any diversity. That would also require a strategy to get the bubble to a location that a player already has there eye on. Idk I just don't "feel" sorry for any of this type of story. It kinda sounds like the greedy just got out witted by someone else that is probably greedy. If I'm wrong, I apologize, I am seriously am having hard time wrapping my mind around this type of concern or complaint.

Not all systems are equal. Some small few are way better than most...and they are few and far between.

 

[Brieus]

The issue isn't about stealing, but that the architect and the camper don't have an equal chance of grabbing the destination. Why should the guy doing the work be at a disadvantage? They should have an equal chance of claiming the next system.

As for how many systems people need, it's not a case of need. FD is forcing players to daisy chain to their desired destination.

Well, the system I want is ~700 ly away from Sol, so I'm not going to daisy-chain that far.
However, people are already generally expanding in that direction. I just visited the furthest out system yesterday and the station was still under construction. But it was apparently functional because I could start the Colonization contact. There were only 5 systems in range. 2 of them were just stars, no planets, 2 with just icy planets and only one with any HMC planets.

People who say "Oh, there's 4 billion systems!" Well, there's only a few thousand that are worth developing.

 

[Rock Hunter]

Let's say you find a nice system, about 30 or so ly from one of your powers stronghold system... It has a pristene, metallic ring, some nice landable planets, not too far from a good supply of materials, maybe a nice view of an ice ring... You build 2 to 3 outposts along the way in systems that only consist of a star or 3 in an effort to get in range of that system... And somebody claims it before you can get there, kinda defeats the purpose of your efforts, don't you think.

I kind of did that in the run up to the update. I found a superb system with lots of landables, a mix of atmospheric, icy, metallic etc, plus all ring types.

I worked hard to get a system into fortified and through to Stronghold so that the 30ly radius encompassed both the system I had my eye on plus the inhabited system I’d try to visit the contact in.

All that work and someone got in just before me. Ok, it’s different pushing PP to Colonising but the luck of the draw is much the same.

I’m now 45ly away in a similar system (no metallic rings but all the others) and will have to push PP….very slowly….toward my new system.

I wonder how many of the systems that were initially Colonised by those with no great BGS ties were of a similar layout? I imagine many of us are after much the same thing, at least for now.

 

[GroG79]

Sad story

But you are not entitled. Rules are first come first served

 

[winchester1188]

I hate to be that guy, but how do you know they stole it? It wasn't your system and there's a lot of systems in the claimable range. I understand you're annoyed, but at the end of the day, you only have a claim over the current system, not those you want to chain to. There could also have been another station built within range?

Also, there's 400 billion stars. With 8000 systems in the last week, you've got hundreds of thousands of years until there's a shortage, even if that figure were to double or triple.

There was no other system within range. I spent quite a while figuring out how to get to it. My crappy little system that I was colonizing was the only bridge there. When I was around 80%, I also noticed some mats go down a little in my colonization ship so I knew someone was up to something, too. That's why I had someone else help me with the final load so I could be prepared to land on the outpost as soon as it was live. When I opened the colonization contact menu, the star I had been working toward was available. I hurried through the menu and as soon as I clicked the claim option, it was taken. They beat me to it by a split second on my own station.

It was blatantly obvious what I was doing, and that another CMDR was watching me do the work and waiting to grab the system before I could.

It's actually pretty slim pickings at the moment regardless of how big the galaxy is. 8000 systems in a week with a 15 ly restriction. It's getting pretty cramped in the bubble. All of the people who have missed out on a decent system are going to be watching the edges waiting to snipe because there's no other choice. A lot of this can be mitigated by FDev coming back with a much larger range when they open things back up.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Slim pickings around me as well, one system has a couple of planets, the rest are star only, just stepping stones really.

 

[ruifo]

It was blatantly obvious what I was doing, and that another CMDR was watching me do the work and waiting to grab the system before I could.

From your story, that is very clear, bad, and sad.
I have seen a similar story as well.
Really frustating.

Colonization Piracy.

 

[Weps]

I've seen complaints elsewhere not just about camping the colonisation ship, but actually delivering the remainder of the commodities to the penultimate system, thus triggering the completion when the architect is offline, and then sniping the target system.

IMHO a cooldown is not enough. The architect should have complete control when their station comes online and offers the colonisation contract.

We've all seen *ahem... dedicated players willing to do everything to trigger a response from other players. We've seen dedicated players spending a lot of effort drawing memes or specific names on the galactic map, just to make a point. Make no mistake, there will be players abusing this situation just to annoy others, and the most vulnerable ones will be lone architects, where system chain progression is slower and deliveries take longer. FDEV needs to correct this while still in Beta.

 

[Makaan]

There was no other system within range. I spent quite a while figuring out how to get to it. My crappy little system that I was colonizing was the only bridge there. When I was around 80%, I also noticed some mats go down a little in my colonization ship so I knew someone was up to something, too. That's why I had someone else help me with the final load so I could be prepared to land on the outpost as soon as it was live. When I opened the colonization contact menu, the star I had been working toward was available. I hurried through the menu and as soon as I clicked the claim option, it was taken. They beat me to it by a split second on my own station.

It was blatantly obvious what I was doing, and that another CMDR was watching me do the work and waiting to grab the system before I could.

It's actually pretty slim pickings at the moment regardless of how big the galaxy is. 8000 systems in a week with a 15 ly restriction. It's getting pretty cramped in the bubble. All of the people who have missed out on a decent system are going to be watching the edges waiting to snipe because there's no other choice. A lot of this can be mitigated by FDev coming back with a much larger range when they open things back up.

I can understand why you would be frustrated by this specific instance, and I think I could get behind a short cooldown period being fair. Maybe 24hours maximum for the architect to bring the station online before it happens automatically? Just to mitigate situations like this, but also to not potentially lock off sections for multiple weeks as others have suggested.

I just don't agree that you have a claim to a system because you're chaining towards it, but I can see how a bit of a compromise would be fair here (the short cooldown).

In regards to slim pickings, I've been looking at SPANSH and have found a lot of decent systems that haven't been claimed yet. Perhaps people are hunting too much for a "perfect" system when there's plenty of good enough ones for the taking? I'm not saying that's what you did, it's just an observation of other comments here and elsewhere.

I do agree that the range needs increasing. 15ly is not enough. I hope Frontier increases it. Maybe in the range of 25 to 50 light years. I'm guessing they don't want us spreading out too far, too fast, though.

 

[rootsrat]

I've seen complaints elsewhere not just about camping the colonisation ship, but actually delivering the remainder of the commodities to the penultimate system, thus triggering the completion when the architect is offline, and then sniping the target system.

IMHO a cooldown is not enough. The architect should have complete control when their station comes online and offers the colonisation contract.

Agreed!

 

[Desirsar]

Maybe the Colonisation Contact should be activated randomly, in a time nobody can predict, between station completion and the next Thursday tick.

Then it would take the original estimate of "longer than the game will exist" to colonize any significant distance with a range of only 16 Ly. As it works now, you can drop the next colony as soon as the first one is finished, allowing daisy chaining as fast as you can bring materials. Restricting the first colony off a new system to the architect, as long as they use it within a specified time (24-48 hours at most) would be a perfect medium point.

 

[winchester1188]

I can understand why you would be frustrated by this specific instance, and I think I could get behind a short cooldown period being fair. Maybe 24hours maximum for the architect to bring the station online before it happens automatically? Just to mitigate situations like this, but also to not potentially lock off sections for multiple weeks as others have suggested.

I just don't agree that you have a claim to a system because you're chaining towards it, but I can see how a bit of a compromise would be fair here (the short cooldown).

In regards to slim pickings, I've been looking at SPANSH and have found a lot of decent systems that haven't been claimed yet. Perhaps people are hunting too much for a "perfect" system when there's plenty of good enough ones for the taking? I'm not saying that's what you did, it's just an observation of other comments here and elsewhere.

I do agree that the range needs increasing. 15ly is not enough. I hope Frontier increases it. Maybe in the range of 25 to 50 light years. I'm guessing they don't want us spreading out too far, too fast, though.

The problem that I have with it is it wasn't an "I got there first" situation. The CMDRs that are trying to deliberately snipe systems know what they're doing. It's dirty, even if the game mechanisms condone it, because you're right, I didn't have a claim to it. There's still people on the other side of the keyboards and it wouldn't cross my mind to do that to someone after all of their time and effort. Since there is a current disadvantage for the architect, the game seems to be actively encouraging it which takes away all incentive to try to reach those systems. But I hate "take that" mechanisms in games in general and I think this game is at its best when the community comes together to work on common goals. I've been wanting colonization ever since I discovered my first earthlike world, but if they don't find some way of giving the architect a little more control of their own system, this feature might just not be for me.

I've been looking through SPANSH, too, the last few days. I found a couple others I'm interested in that are currently out of reach. I don't think the perfect system exists, but I'm not looking for "good enough" either. I don't want to own a bunch of systems so I'm looking for the right one that meets at least most of my criteria. One of the limiting factors for me is the name, too, for role playing purposes. It would be great if we were able to purchase star name changes with ARX, too, assuming the star had a randomly generated name that holds no significance. It would be pretty annoying to be returning from a trip out in the black to be like "it's good to be home, back in... [checks notes] Col 285 Sector BC-R L15-9..." Some of them are fine but most of them are like this.

 

[Galactic Fork]

There was no other system within range. I spent quite a while figuring out how to get to it. My crappy little system that I was colonizing was the only bridge there. When I was around 80%, I also noticed some mats go down a little in my colonization ship so I knew someone was up to something, too. That's why I had someone else help me with the final load so I could be prepared to land on the outpost as soon as it was live. When I opened the colonization contact menu, the star I had been working toward was available. I hurried through the menu and as soon as I clicked the claim option, it was taken. They beat me to it by a split second on my own station.

It was blatantly obvious what I was doing, and that another CMDR was watching me do the work and waiting to grab the system before I could.

It's actually pretty slim pickings at the moment regardless of how big the galaxy is. 8000 systems in a week with a 15 ly restriction. It's getting pretty cramped in the bubble. All of the people who have missed out on a decent system are going to be watching the edges waiting to snipe because there's no other choice. A lot of this can be mitigated by FDev coming back with a much larger range when they open things back up.

The range should be unlimited but getting more and more expensive the further you go, with the farthest edge being many trillions of credits to make the claim. Plus an initial credit cost for each station/installation/settlement. Let others contribute to the initial cost as well so expansion becomes more of a group effort.

Also let us rename procedurally named systems!

 

[KRISXR]

Correct me if i'm wrong but your original post did say "daisy chain", that states more than one, more than two, and really three would be an overstatement for the term daisy chain. So in my mind you painted a picture of a daisy chain, not a single system, why wouldn't you simply state i completed one system to reach another?

Idk some of this discussion is thin veiled justification, some of it is a legitimate argument against the current system, which some are very good arguments, but simply crying foul and making a misleading statement, then backing it up with rather selfish points like i want certain names and there isn't that many good systems is rather trivial in the first case and not true in the second. I think I do understand your statements and you are simply upset and bummed, then thought that bringing it to the forum would somehow ease or unburst your bubble. i threw in a pun there.

Just so you know that I am really trying not to be a total twerp, I have re-read your original post and re-read a few other posts in this thread, a few times over, it is misleading and your story changes in your response back to me to suit your side of the argument of the current system that is in place. So at this point I don't know what's true, what isn't, and am inclined to think that a few simple poor choices of words has derailed your original thoughts on the situation. You did not make a daisy chain, you were not stole from, is it a bit underhanded what happened, possibly, is it a bad system, not great, is there room for improvement, most definitely.

 

[winchester1188]

Correct me if i'm wrong but your original post did say "daisy chain", that states more than one, more than two, and really three would be an overstatement for the term daisy chain. So in my mind you painted a picture of a daisy chain, not a single system, why wouldn't you simply state i completed one system to reach another?

Idk some of this discussion is thin veiled justification, some of it is a legitimate argument against the current system, which some are very good arguments, but simply crying foul and making a misleading statement, then backing it up with rather selfish points like i want certain names and there isn't that many good systems is rather trivial in the first case and not true in the second. I think I do understand your statements and you are simply upset and bummed, then thought that bringing it to the forum would somehow ease or unburst your bubble. i threw in a pun there.

Just so you know that I am really trying not to be a total twerp, I have re-read your original post and re-read a few other posts in this thread, a few times over, it is misleading and your story changes in your response back to me to suit your side of the argument of the current system that is in place. So at this point I don't know what's true, what isn't, and am inclined to think that a few simple poor choices of words has derailed your original thoughts on the situation. You did not make a daisy chain, you were not stole from, is it a bit underhanded what happened, possibly, is it a bad system, not great, is there room for improvement, most definitely.

The definition of daisy chain is "to link together in series" which I believe is the case when I create a link from one established system that was someone else's, the system that I colonized, and the system I was trying to reach. That's a chain. That has also been the term used by the community to describe reaching specific systems as part of colonisation so it's the term I used. I apologize if I didn't have the correct number of systems to qualify to use the term, but the definition is lacking of that detail.

Selfish points like wanting certain names? Everyone has a list of criteria they're looking for in a system, like number and types of bodies, number of landable planets, and I'm not the only one that mentioned name. And how is that more selfish than someone watching someone else do all the work then sniping it before they can claim it? What on earth are you talking about? Reasons for wanting specific systems are irrelevant. In my initial post, I gave my story to provide a reason for why I think there should be some changes to the claim process. The suggestion carries more weight if I explain why I think it should be addressed, no?

My post is not misleading. We just have a different understanding of the meaning behind "linking together in series". I never made any misleading or factually incorrect statements to the events that took place, only offered further details about the final couple minutes when I was pressed to. My story has never changed. I'm sorry but you seem to be the only one that's confused by this and believed my thoughts on the matter were derailed. It's ok to admit that you simply misunderstood what I was saying. Obviously the CMDR didn't literally "steal" the system because I didn't have a claim in first. If I did, that would for sure be a bug and I wouldn't be here making suggestions on the claim process. While we're discussing definitions, you should check out the one for "colloquial" to explain my usage of the word "steal".

 

[winchester1188]

Correct me if i'm wrong but your original post did say "daisy chain", that states more than one, more than two, and really three would be an overstatement for the term daisy chain. So in my mind you painted a picture of a daisy chain, not a single system, why wouldn't you simply state i completed one system to reach another?

Idk some of this discussion is thin veiled justification, some of it is a legitimate argument against the current system, which some are very good arguments, but simply crying foul and making a misleading statement, then backing it up with rather selfish points like i want certain names and there isn't that many good systems is rather trivial in the first case and not true in the second. I think I do understand your statements and you are simply upset and bummed, then thought that bringing it to the forum would somehow ease or unburst your bubble. i threw in a pun there.

Just so you know that I am really trying not to be a total twerp, I have re-read your original post and re-read a few other posts in this thread, a few times over, it is misleading and your story changes in your response back to me to suit your side of the argument of the current system that is in place. So at this point I don't know what's true, what isn't, and am inclined to think that a few simple poor choices of words has derailed your original thoughts on the situation. You did not make a daisy chain, you were not stole from, is it a bit underhanded what happened, possibly, is it a bad system, not great, is there room for improvement, most definitely.

Also, in regards to the many good systems that are still available, if you find some you aren't going to colonize, feel free to enlighten me and the several others in this thread that have reported slim pickings. "Good" is subjective, and what I said on the matter was in response to someone who said there were plenty that were "good enough". I feel like I have already addressed those points and that doesn't need to be rehashed, but my reasoning for choosing a specific system is 100% irrelevant to the issue that there is no incentive to "[complete] one system to reach another" when the architect is at a disadvantage to make claims in their own system to someone who is camping and that issue should be addressed before this update is out of beta. And given the current gold rush approach to colonization, as the bubble pushes outwards, it's not going to get any better until the 15ly restriction is changed.

I have no idea how you can read through this entire thread and determine that I'M the one that's being selfish and greedy. Picky, sure. I'll give you that one.

 

[winchester1188]

...you are simply upset and bummed, then thought that bringing it to the forum would somehow ease or unburst your bubble. i threw in a pun there.

The last point I want to address directly. I didn't come here to "ease or unburst my bubble". I came here to provide a suggestion on an aspect of a feature in beta that I don't think was well thought out, and then provided my experiences on why I feel like a change should be considered. I said straight up that this was a feature I had been wanting for a long time but that if they don't make a few changes to address the issues I had with it, then it's not a feature for me. I also originally posted this in the Suggestions forum but moved it here because I thought there would be more visibility and was interested to hear thoughts from other CMDRs. So again, you're making assumptions.

 

[AngryAntz]

Nothing got stolen, as you didn't own the system in the first place. So once available it is available for anyone who wants to claim it, for whatever reasons their heart desires.

I have seen a few thread claiming that they should have first dibs because <insert reason here>. My question is how long should everyone else in the game have to wait whilst you procrastinate on what you want to do next, a day, a month or even a year. I am not there for you on this one.

First in, first serve is the fair way imo, even if it doesn't fit into your personal head cannon.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Seems like this is a "welp this didn't happen to me yet so I don't care about it" situation.

Maybe a little also of people not fully reading the OP.