News Changes Coming to Multi-crew

[GhostBuster]

I've said it before, but I'll repeat.

The shallow gameplay in Elite is due either to the designers or the producers. I find it hard to believe that the designers wouldn't be capable of designing deeper, more engaging gameplay. They have to work withing the constraints given by the producers, who also sign off on the results. An overly tight schedule means everything ends up as minimal implementation. This would be ok, if it was then recognized, and following sprints would budget time for enhancement tickets.

Either the schedule needs to be relaxed, and quality emphasized over quantity (feature count), or there need to be frequent enhancement sprints where the hurried work from previous sprints is improved.

There is a strange air about Elite currently. It feels like the people putting the gameplay together don't actually play any games for fun. How else would it be possible that the behaviour of gamers in multiplayer online games keeps catching the company by surprise, time and again?

I think frontier are in trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if the small dev team they have have been moved onto other projects to try and bolster their bottom line, before the company goes bust.

You see it all the time with small developers who don't have particularly highly skilled dev teams and try and bite off a project too big and too grand in scale for them to accomplish to high enough standard.

I mean, years ago they tried to break the mould with a game called the outsider or something. They said that they were building the tech for that game to then use as a foundation for elite. That game never even made alpha before they realised they didn't have the skills or talent or manpower to pull it off.

Then star citizen beats them to the punch with crowd sourcing and they get the idea that suckers / gamers will pay for a slowly developed beta masquerading as a 'release', with the same talentless hacks.

That Braben still spouts all these lofty goals and rich depth of the game, yet there is very little real gameplay and what there is keeps getting nerfed for the instant gratification idiots says they are completely lost and have no clue what they're doing or where the project is going.

They'll limp it along getting as much micro transaction cash as they can until they kill the project or they go bust as a company.

And then probably blame us for not 'getting it'.

 

[Whitehair]

I think frontier are in trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if the small dev team they have have been moved onto other projects to try and bolster their bottom line, before the company goes bust.

You must have missed the most recent official financial figures showing the FD are doing 'just fine thank you very much' . (sorry - no link, but the documents have been linked on the forum)

 

[GhostBuster]

You must have missed the most recent official financial figures showing the FD are doing 'just fine thank you very much' . (sorry - no link, but the documents have been linked on the forum)

Yeah, there's two sides to 'that' story... dig a little deeper, and don't believe everything that gets put out. It's called 'critical thinking' - not enough people around here do it.

 

[Adept]

I think frontier are in trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if the small dev team they have have been moved onto other projects to try and bolster their bottom line, before the company goes bust.

You should do your research before spouting nonsense. The company is doing phenomenally well financially, and 2016 was their best year ever. As a publicly listed company, you can easily check up on their finances.

As for the Star Citizen cultist spiel, it's not worth more than a derisive snort

 

[Whitehair]

Yeah, there's two sides to 'that' story... dig a little deeper, and don't believe everything that gets put out. It's called 'critical thinking' - not enough people around here do it.

I'm going to call you out.

Put up and show some evidence of what you are imtimating.

 

[GhostBuster]

You should do your research before spouting nonsense. The company is doing phenomenally well financially, and 2016 was their best year ever. As a publicly listed company, you can easily check up on their finances.

As for the Star Citizen cultist spiel, it's not worth more than a derisive snort

What cultist spiel? Trolling much or just white knighting?

What a great community you have here, everyone just attacks everyone else... just damn wonderful. Is it a British thing?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm going to call you out.

Put up and show some evidence of what you are imtimating.

From what I've been told, any mention or uploading of 'evidence' gets the player banned and the posts removed.

 

[Soopyyy]

What cultist spiel? Trolling much or just white knighting?

What a great community you have here, everyone just attacks everyone else... just damn wonderful. Is it a British thing?

- - - Updated - - -



From what I've been told, any mention or uploading of 'evidence' gets the player banned and the posts removed.

My inbox is perfectly functional. Feel free to share.

 

[Sunleader]

You should do your research before spouting nonsense. The company is doing phenomenally well financially, and 2016 was their best year ever. As a publicly listed company, you can easily check up on their finances.

As for the Star Citizen cultist spiel, it's not worth more than a derisive snort

True.
FD is not doing bad at all lol.

The Games Population is Stagnating which worries me.
Because I still hope this Game to come out and make it Big. Instead of just remaining in its small corner and produce money at an steady pace.....



I disagree with Star Citizen tough.
Following it its doing tremendous strides forward.
Ships Physics also feel much better now ^^ (took them long enough lol)
Its still up in the Air of them going to be good or not. But I would be careful in where you put their worth *gg*
They might in fact happen to overtake Elite Dangerous if FD does not get up from their couch and start adding some Depth to the Game

 

[Rojo Habe]

What a great community you have here, everyone just attacks everyone else... just damn wonderful. Is it a British thing?

We can do without the racist comments, thanks very much.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

True.
FD is not doing bad at all lol.

The Games Population is Stagnating which worries me.

Proof please. The only evidence we have which doesn't give us the full picture says otherwise (Steam spy).

 

[Sunleader]

Proof please. The only evidence we have which doesn't give us the full picture says otherwise (Steam spy).

Nope.
Steam Spy actually tells you just this.
The Playerbase is sitting around at roughly below 1 Million.
Not really going up. Not really going down.

Short Spikes after Updates which Disappear Short time later again.

Its Stagnating.
Steam Charts gives a bit of an longer Period as well.
Showing that the Active Players Playing at all times (Online at the same time in average) wander between 4000 and 5000. Spikes on Updates going over 6000 and Lows going down to 3000. But not really breaking away from this.

Thats not Bad. Not Bad at all. But its also not becoming Bigger.
Which is not Surprising because the World while being tremendously Big.
Has astonishingly little to do for Players aside from Grinding.


If they want to break this trend and increase their Playerbase. They need to get off the Couch and get working on some more Depth in the Mechanics rather than just adding more flat content the player has explored fully 2 hours after its launched.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Posting misinformation without backing it up with evidence isn't really Cricket.

If you see posts like this in future you know who to call.

 

[Soopyyy]

Nope.
Steam Spy actually tells you just this.
The Playerbase is sitting around at roughly below 1 Million.
Not really going up. Not really going down.

Short Spikes after Updates which Disappear Short time later again.

Its Stagnating.
Steam Charts gives a bit of an longer Period as well.
Showing that the Active Players Playing at all times (Online at the same time in average) wander between 4000 and 5000. Spikes on Updates going over 6000 and Lows going down to 3000. But not really breaking away from this.

Thats not Bad. Not Bad at all. But its also not becoming Bigger.
Which is not Surprising because the World while being tremendously Big.
Has astonishingly little to do for Players aside from Grinding.


If they want to break this trend and increase their Playerbase. They need to get off the Couch and get working on some more Depth in the Mechanics rather than just adding more flat content the player has explored fully 2 hours after its launched.

This is fairly well a perfect summary.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Nope.
Steam Spy actually tells you just this.
The Playerbase is sitting around at roughly below 1 Million.
Not really going up. Not really going down.

The playing population has gone up a lot since the last update (please look at players in the last 2 weeks for the best judge).

Short Spikes after Updates which Disappear Short time later again.

To a degree yes, but that is the same as pretty much all games.

Its Stagnating.
Steam Charts gives a bit of an longer Period as well.
Showing that the Active Players Playing at all times (Online at the same time in average) wander between 4000 and 5000. Spikes on Updates going over 6000 and Lows going down to 3000. But not really breaking away from this.

Thats not Bad. Not Bad at all. But its also not becoming Bigger.
Which is not Surprising because the World while being tremendously Big.
Has astonishingly little to do for Players aside from Grinding.

Steam charts is concurrent players. It doesn't tell you how many people have played that day at all, so is completely irrelevant.

If they want to break this trend and increase their Playerbase. They need to get off the Couch and get working on some more Depth in the Mechanics rather than just adding more flat content the player has explored fully 2 hours after its launched.

What poeple call depth seems to be completely different. What you may want in the game may break it for others. There are a lot of stuff that I want in the game that others don't and would add depth for me, but would take away the credit farming for others.

So what extra depth do you want in the game.

 

[Sunleader]

The playing population has gone up a lot since the last update (please look at players in the last 2 weeks for the best judge).


To a degree yes, but that is the same as pretty much all games.



Steam charts is concurrent players. It doesn't tell you how many people have played that day at all, so is completely irrelevant.



What poeple call depth seems to be completely different. What you may want in the game may break it for others. There are a lot of stuff that I want in the game that others don't and would add depth for me, but would take away the credit farming for others.

So what extra depth do you want in the game.

1.
2 Weeks is no useful Timeframe Mate.
Especially not after an Update.
Every Game has an Spike in Userbase after the Update.
But these Spikes dont carry over. They come simply because alot of People Play at once to test the new Update. And afterwards alot of them leave again.
Thats why you need to use longer Timeframes to see actual Changes.

2.
It is very Relevant.
It tells you an nice summary of how many People Play the Game at the same time and how long.
Meaning that you have an actual Information about the Average Game Population.
You know just how many People you can Expect to actually be there in the Game World when logging on.
Which is much much more telling of the Health of an Game. Than knowing how many People got the Game Installed.

3.
Depth is generally how engaging the Game is to a Player.
How much difference him knowing the Game makes.

Example.
Take Planetary Exploration and Mining right now.
Be it an Outcrop and Meterite or whatever.
You Scan it. You Shoot it You Loot it.
Always the exactly same action.
The name on it does not really matter to be honest. Because its always the same course of action anyways.
That means there is no Depth here.
Same for Exploration.
You jump into the system. Press the Big Scan. Then Fly and Scan the Single Bodies.
What your scanning relevant to this process ?
Nope. Honestly said you dont really even need to look before scanning.
Always the same Repetition.

Now simple example.
Add some different things to the Planet.
Add some Veins of Minerals Surfacing which can be Mined using a Mining Laser.
Add some Patches of Earth on the Planet you can take Probes from rather than shooting it up.

Or in short. Increase the Decisions the Player actually makes.
By adding different things which require the Player to actually read what it is and thus make a decision on how he handles it.
Thats whats called Depth.

If for Planetary Mining you suddenly cant just approach the Rock, Shoot it, And Collect the Item.
But for example it being an Earth Patch thus you needing to drive onto it. To Mine with your Buggy by standing on it and pressing a Key.
By making it an Vein that you have to Mine with a Ships Mining Laser Instead.

These are mini things.
They are incredible small.
BUT they actually mean you have to know what your facing. They mean that you have to make a decision.
Do you shoot at it ?
Do you try to probe it ?
Or do you call your Ship ?


Thats just a simple fast example of course. I am sure there is better ideas around.
The Point is you actually need to give Players a reason to care about what they got in front of them.
You can have Tens of Thousands Different Names for that Rock sitting in front of you.
And it can have Tens of Thousands of Different Shapes and Graphics.
If your Action is always the exactly same of "Scan it, Shoot it, Gather it" Then its ultimately the exactly same thing lol

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

1.
2 Weeks is no useful Timeframe Mate.
Especially not after an Update.
Every Game has an Spike in Userbase after the Update.
But these Spikes dont carry over. They come simply because alot of People Play at once to test the new Update. And afterwards alot of them leave again.
Thats why you need to use longer Timeframes to see actual Changes.

As stated it is the best we can get from steam. But there are a lot that don't play on steam.

2.
It is very Relevant.
It tells you an nice summary of how many People Play the Game at the same time and how long.
Meaning that you have an actual Information about the Average Game Population.
You know just how many People you can Expect to actually be there in the Game World when logging on.
Which is much much more telling of the Health of an Game. Than knowing how many People got the Game Installed.

No it isn't as it doesn't say how many people have played that day at all. There could be 80,000 people play that day, but the stat won't tell you that. It is irrelavant

As stated steam is not a good measure as there are a lot of players that don't use steam (me being one of them), so using steam is pretty pointless, all we can do is trust what FDev have said, and that is that player numbers are very good and had gone up, and that was before the update came out.

3.
Depth is generally how engaging the Game is to a Player.
How much difference him knowing the Game makes.

Example.
Take Planetary Exploration and Mining right now.
Be it an Outcrop and Meterite or whatever.
You Scan it. You Shoot it You Loot it.
Always the exactly same action.
The name on it does not really matter to be honest. Because its always the same course of action anyways.
That means there is no Depth here.
Same for Exploration.
You jump into the system. Press the Big Scan. Then Fly and Scan the Single Bodies.
What your scanning relevant to this process ?
Nope. Honestly said you dont really even need to look before scanning.
Always the same Repetition.

Now simple example.
Add some different things to the Planet.
Add some Veins of Minerals Surfacing which can be Mined using a Mining Laser.
Add some Patches of Earth on the Planet you can take Probes from rather than shooting it up.

Or in short. Increase the Decisions the Player actually makes.
By adding different things which require the Player to actually read what it is and thus make a decision on how he handles it.
Thats whats called Depth.

If for Planetary Mining you suddenly cant just approach the Rock, Shoot it, And Collect the Item.
But for example it being an Earth Patch thus you needing to drive onto it. To Mine with your Buggy by standing on it and pressing a Key.
By making it an Vein that you have to Mine with a Ships Mining Laser Instead.

These are mini things.
They are incredible small.
BUT they actually mean you have to know what your facing. They mean that you have to make a decision.
Do you shoot at it ?
Do you try to probe it ?
Or do you call your Ship ?


Thats just a simple fast example of course. I am sure there is better ideas around.
The Point is you actually need to give Players a reason to care about what they got in front of them.
You can have Tens of Thousands Different Names for that Rock sitting in front of you.
And it can have Tens of Thousands of Different Shapes and Graphics.
If your Action is always the exactly same of "Scan it, Shoot it, Gather it" Then its ultimately the exactly same thing lol

This is the issue here. I agree with some of what you have said to a degree. For me depth is a good amount of tools and a good amount of areas to use these tools.

The issue with adding some small stuff to the planets is actually finding that stuff. I am an explorer most of the time, but there is no compelling reason for me to scan a load of ice planets, even if I use a DSS it gives me nothing. You could have all the content (there is already decent exploration content, but could do with more like your ideas), but there are no tools to interact with the content or to find that content in any meaningful way. There could be stuff out there that have been put in by Fdev, but have ignored it as there is no way to know.

We have similar issues with combat but the other way round. An absalute tonne load of tools, but no desent stuff to do with those tools. Basically bounty farming in res sites and combat bond farming in CZ's if you don't do PvP.

There are issues with the game. I do know that. I don't think there are issues with the amount of players playing. But I am with you with added gameplay elements.

 

[Sunleader]

As stated it is the best we can get from steam. But there are a lot that don't play on steam.



No it isn't as it doesn't say how many people have played that day at all. There could be 80,000 people play that day, but the stat won't tell you that. It is irrelavant

As stated steam is not a good measure as there are a lot of players that don't use steam (me being one of them), so using steam is pretty pointless, all we can do is trust what FDev have said, and that is that player numbers are very good and had gone up, and that was before the update came out.



This is the issue here. I agree with some of what you have said to a degree. For me depth is a good amount of tools and a good amount of areas to use these tools.

The issue with adding some small stuff to the planets is actually finding that stuff. I am an explorer most of the time, but there is no compelling reason for me to scan a load of ice planets, even if I use a DSS it gives me nothing. You could have all the content (there is already decent exploration content, but could do with more like your ideas), but there are no tools to interact with the content or to find that content in any meaningful way. There could be stuff out there that have been put in by Fdev, but have ignored it as there is no way to know.

We have similar issues with combat but the other way round. An absalute tonne load of tools, but no desent stuff to do with those tools. Basically bounty farming in res sites and combat bond farming in CZ's if you don't do PvP.

There are issues with the game. I do know that. I don't think there are issues with the amount of players playing. But I am with you with added gameplay elements.

1.
No its not.
Steam Charts are way waaay better.

2.
It is. Because how many People Play per Day is not relevant.
What does it use to you when a Million People log in for 1 minute but dont actually Play the Game ???

Steam Charts gives you the Average Number of Players Online.
It tells you what the Game Population is.

There is no more Importand Statistic than that.
Because that is how many Players are actually Playing the Game.

Installed or Sold Copies tell you how good the Game Started.
It does not tell you how the Game develops.
Because you have no idea how many of these People actually Play the Game and will buy the next DLC or Expansion.

However. You can assume that the 4k People which are Average Online at all times will Buy the Expansion. Because they in fact Play the Game
Pls note you have to set this number in relation of course. 4k Average Server Population does not mean that you have only 4k Players.
Its the Server Population. Its how many People you actually have Online in Average.
Assuming everyone plays 2-3 Hours you can guess that likely in a Day you got 50k Players Playing.
But it does not matter. Because the thing that Matters. Is what population does your Game have.
If it Drops you messed up.
If its Stable your not in Danger but not making Progress either.
And if its rising you can assume your doing Good.

Spikes are irrelevant.
Because they are just that. Spikes.
People checking out your stuff dont mean they buy it.
But People actually being in your Game mean they are playing it and liking it

Thats why Steam Charts is likely the most Importand Health Bar any Online Game can have.

3.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...another-paying-customer?p=5426446#post5426446
Maybe give it a read.
It was an bit more fleshed out idea than what I posted here to explain what I mean.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

1.
No its not.
Steam Charts are way waaay better.

2.
It is. Because how many People Play per Day is not relevant.
What does it use to you when a Million People log in for 1 minute but dont actually Play the Game ???

Steam Charts gives you the Average Number of Players Online.
It tells you what the Game Population is.

There is no more Importand Statistic than that.
Because that is how many Players are actually Playing the Game.

Installed or Sold Copies tell you how good the Game Started.
It does not tell you how the Game develops.
Because you have no idea how many of these People actually Play the Game and will buy the next DLC or Expansion.

However. You can assume that the 4k People which are Average Online at all times will Buy the Expansion. Because they in fact Play the Game
Pls note you have to set this number in relation of course. 4k Average Server Population does not mean that you have only 4k Players.
Its the Server Population. Its how many People you actually have Online in Average.
Assuming everyone plays 2-3 Hours you can guess that likely in a Day you got 50k Players Playing.
But it does not matter. Because the thing that Matters. Is what population does your Game have.
If it Drops you messed up.
If its Stable your not in Danger but not making Progress either.
And if its rising you can assume your doing Good.

Spikes are irrelevant.
Because they are just that. Spikes.
People checking out your stuff dont mean they buy it.
But People actually being in your Game mean they are playing it and liking it

Thats why Steam Charts is likely the most Importand Health Bar any Online Game can have.

3.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...another-paying-customer?p=5426446#post5426446
Maybe give it a read.
It was an bit more fleshed out idea than what I posted here to explain what I mean.

Steam charts only has cucurrent players. It does not tell you how many people have played that day. Steam spy has the same stats.

Please look here for what they mean :

https://galyonk.in/steam-spy-the-missing-manual-cc22ef6eebe1

 

[Robert Maynard]

Steam charts only has cucurrent players. It does not tell you how many people have played that day. Steam spy has the same stats.

.... on PC / Mac only (and even then only those PC / Mac players who use Steam) - not at all on XB1 or, soon, PS4.

 

[Sunleader]

Steam charts only has cucurrent players. It does not tell you how many people have played that day. Steam spy has the same stats.

Please look here for what they mean :

https://galyonk.in/steam-spy-the-missing-manual-cc22ef6eebe1

Concurrent Players is the Active Player Population.
Its the amount of Players Online on the Server in Average.
In Short its the amount of Players actually Playing the Game.

There is no Better Statistic to know if a Game is Healthy or not Mate.


And no Steam Spy does not have that.
If you actually read the link you posted me. It does Explain to you on the very First thing that the Two Player Stats is an Estimate on how many People have the Game in their Account. Which tells you nothing about how good the Game is.
And the other being an Picture of the last 2 Weeks.
Which is just not an big enough Time Frame to tell anything about the Game.