Will you be changing the "honk" mechanic? If it only will reveal the entry star, make the honk a one button push and not one that you have to hold down a few seconds. It will just add to the tediousness if you will also have to do the mini game to discover all the other bodys.
News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal
Will you be changing the "honk" mechanic? If it only will reveal the entry star, make the honk a one button push and not one that you have to hold down a few seconds. It will just add to the tediousness if you will also have to do the mini game to discover all the other bodys.
Thanks for the update! A few questions follow:
1) USSs not being spawned randomly. Does it mean they are going to be fixed locations in the system generated by the server, not the end-user PC? And does that mean When I target some USS, my wingmate will be able to take over my target? Reason for this question being it does not work in the current game play - you can take over wingman's target if it is a system, a station, a ship... However, it does NOT work for USSs, Mission targets, and planetary targets (even stations, which is really silly and a bug I guess (reported it a while ago)).
2) The probes - They will obviously have to be bought or synthesized. Will they be automatically replenished at the station upon clicking the Reload button? What will the synth price be? (hopefully a lot cheaper than limpets, a longer exploration run will need a lot of those probes... Scanning a system with 40 bodies could easily use about 200 probes, guessing from your description).
3) When talking about probes and limpets - could we just set how many limpets we want in our cargo as maximum and upon clicking the Rearm button could we just buy them (instead of having to go to Advanced maintenance)? Would make life MUCH easier...
4) Will the Discovery scanner stats change. As it is now, the Intermediate scanner is totally useless, being only slightly better than the basic one. I feel it should be much more efficient so it would make sense getting it on a ship... Still, the Advanced one is a no-brainer once a new pilot gathers enough money to get it.
5) Hope there will be a nice tutorial explaining all the new scanning procedures to help new pilots learn it along with all the other stuff needed
1) USSs not being spawned randomly. Does it mean they are going to be fixed locations in the system generated by the server, not the end-user PC? And does that mean When I target some USS, my wingmate will be able to take over my target? Reason for this question being it does not work in the current game play - you can take over wingman's target if it is a system, a station, a ship... However, it does NOT work for USSs, Mission targets, and planetary targets (even stations, which is really silly and a bug I guess (reported it a while ago)).
2) The probes - They will obviously have to be bought or synthesized. Will they be automatically replenished at the station upon clicking the Reload button? What will the synth price be? (hopefully a lot cheaper than limpets, a longer exploration run will need a lot of those probes... Scanning a system with 40 bodies could easily use about 200 probes, guessing from your description).
3) When talking about probes and limpets - could we just set how many limpets we want in our cargo as maximum and upon clicking the Rearm button could we just buy them (instead of having to go to Advanced maintenance)? Would make life MUCH easier...
4) Will the Discovery scanner stats change. As it is now, the Intermediate scanner is totally useless, being only slightly better than the basic one. I feel it should be much more efficient so it would make sense getting it on a ship... Still, the Advanced one is a no-brainer once a new pilot gathers enough money to get it.
5) Hope there will be a nice tutorial explaining all the new scanning procedures to help new pilots learn it along with all the other stuff needed
Obviously none of us actually know til the beta is out, but... I guess you need to consider why you're exploring? Are you a wanderer, just out to see what's there? Or a space tourist heading for a particular POI? Or are you a speculator, looking for high cr returns by finding a particular class of planet, or for particular resources? If so, then tune for what you want... else just go look and see.
We all play different, and that's what makes it fun.
How will multi-crew work for pilots joining the crew of a vessel in deep space, contributing to some discoveries, but not being on board when the pilot returns to habitated space to sell the data?
All the changes sound quite promising but it might be nice for some actual Astrophysicists to chime in on some basic things your team might want to consider given you are putting in all the extra work here, it might be nice to add additional levels of realism while you're at it:
#1. If you are observing any celestial bodies from an orbit near or literally around a star, generally speaking the brightest objects in your view of the sky will be of those inside the solar system! So it wouldn't be accurate to put black empty space there where an orbiting body might be; perhaps a more pixelated/distorted image/decayed signal might be better until you actually fine tune your sensor resolution to bring the object into proper focus, but it wouldn't be just empty unless it was in shadow, even then we would see something there in any of the spectrums we use to observe (much wider than just optical).
#2. I believe the sense of scale within a solar system is not properly appreciable with the current 'instantaneous scanning' of celestial bodies at vast distances away from the primary star. An object that is 1,000ls away requires 1,000 seconds for a signal to move through space, so to honk at that object would require 2,000 seconds for any electromagnetic signal to traverse across space and return back to the emission point, generally speaking. It takes the light from our Sun nearly 8min 20seconds to reach earth and that tells you exactly how far earth is away simply by converting into LS and the multiplying by *C* the speed of light (300,000 km/s).
The point being, all that sense of scale across vast distances over time is lost a bit in this game, and while it may not be reasonable to have to wait hours for a signal to return from the HONK, perhaps SOME delayed signals after the honk would give players a more reasonable sense of how things work in the real universe. So if a player arrives in a solar system much like ours and honks from the sun, it would take any signal 500 seconds going 1 way to reach earth- meaning 1,000 seconds roundtrip for the honk to return back towards the sun; with 10x faster signal speed that is reduced to a 100 second honk; 100x signal speed means a 10 second honk before earth would show up on any sensors. Signals from objects farther away would come in later perhaps even taking minutes to arrive but giving players a much better sense of scale!
#3. We can't observe anything behind any stars (our sun) at such close proximity to it there's far too much noise. I've always found it amusing that after the initial honk you get all this data back on orbiting bodies that were found *behind* the nearest star as our honk would have just been absorbed by the sun and any signals from anything behind the sun would be lost in the sea of electromagnetic interference. So positioning relative to the local star(s) is very important in astrophysics when it comes to satellites, orbiting telescopes and the onboard communication/sensors. Perhaps more than 1 honk from more than 1 position, or else 1 honk from a very good position (above the solar plane) would add some additional realism.
Well short of doing a Neil Degrasse Tyson style review of all the quirky physics related criticisms of the game here I'll just point those few out as they are relevant to the exploration aspects of the changes currently underway. I'd love to hear other insights, feedback or suggestions from other scientists in the interests of making the game more simulative.
Sorry, but I'm asking a valid question on how this system will operate......the way I explore is frankly none of your business!
Are there any changes to Horizons content; e.g. being able to find planetary higher yields of specific minerals as a result of the new scanning mechanic?
The emission signature will get me to the types of planets/stars but I looks like I will have to get their position by doing the scan on all of them.
Now after the discovery scanner went of I can go to the system map and see the whole system. The way I understand it that feature will be gone.
Even a system with only ice worlds may be interesting if the setup is right
.If that is true then I will have to scan the nav beacon(if this stays as it is) or do the scanner-minigame on all planets, whatever is faster to see everything in the system map.
So "ADS scan->dull system->jump" switches to "scan nav beacon->dull system->jump"
well, after digging through 82 pages, first of all
THANKS FD !
With the new exploring mechanics You definetly put a hold to rush-exploration and give exploring a meaning of use of brains and brawls (back).
Nevertheless, the new ADS characteristics are not really logical - on the high speeds we travel in-system, we (in RL) within of seconds would have an appropriate baseline for an optical / paralax analysis of a system, which should reveal number of bodies (incl. number of moons of those) and distances, hence the Sysmap should be established fully, using position markers only.
From there the detail-analysis using the new mechanics (gravitational/electromagnetic analysis with ADS) and mapping with DSS is the next logical step.
Anyhow - 42 Thumbs up !!!!
THANKS FD !
With the new exploring mechanics You definetly put a hold to rush-exploration and give exploring a meaning of use of brains and brawls (back).
Nevertheless, the new ADS characteristics are not really logical - on the high speeds we travel in-system, we (in RL) within of seconds would have an appropriate baseline for an optical / paralax analysis of a system, which should reveal number of bodies (incl. number of moons of those) and distances, hence the Sysmap should be established fully, using position markers only.
From there the detail-analysis using the new mechanics (gravitational/electromagnetic analysis with ADS) and mapping with DSS is the next logical step.
Anyhow - 42 Thumbs up !!!!
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Initial thoughts after reading the reveal: good stuff, but not without concern.
- I like the enhanced mechanics, exploring a system will now be an actual activity. My only worry is that it may get old quickly. Hopefully after we've mastered the skill of energy patterns recognition, we'll be able to tell from the initial scan if the system is worth exploring further
- Everything seems to be tuned for a cartography type of exploration and my other worry is lack of things to find while exploring. It will be all good and cool to use the new mechanics to map out the system, but there needs to be something to be found. Discoveries to me made. The OP does not mention anything of the sorts, apart from the new stuff in USS' - but does it mean we will come across them in deep space now as well and the "new stuff" will be something interesting and cool for explorers to discover OUT THERE?
- The new USS system sounds great! This is a living proof that Frontier DOES listen to the playerbase and takes their suggestions on board, as something along the lines of what's being introduced was requested many times on the forums. Awesomesauce!
- New tag - great move. More than one way to leave your footprint on the galaxy
- Involvement of crew members in the process - also great. It's small thing, but it will allow for more cooperative type of gameplay. Great stuff.
Looking forward to seeing more, Frontier. You have a good start, I like what I'm seeing! What was presented in this thread sound really cool - but at this stage for me it's not enough to call Chapter 4 a patch I'm looking forward to and you did not really encourage me to go and explore (I'm more of an discoverer than a cartographer).
- The biggest worry of mine at this stage - there are no new things to discover when exploring. To boldly go while scanning like a madman is one thing, but I hope exploration will lead us to some interesting new discoveries. Otherwise the new mechanics WILL get old quickly. I remember that we were shown "an anomaly" at Lavecon (space storm). I hope there will be a whole separate thread telling us what we can find out there.
There is one thing I forgot to mention, which is quite important to me.
Must say I REALLY like the fact that every system will be an unknown now. This will add A LOT to the feeling of mystery and danger during exploration. Jumping into the unknown... love it!
Indeed it is not... but the answer to my question is also the answer to what you need to fine tune for. There's no need to get defensive.
Like the concept -- looking forward to the beta for unreality check!
This new 'FSS'* map, is it not an orrery, or is it strictly a 2.5D schematic? It looks like it's getting closer to an orrery...
We'll be spending time flying a reticule around this map, looking for the right location to 'cast your rod' using the carets on the reticule as a guide, and hoping a planet is there to bite. I hope that there will be a wide range of possible energy signatures for each type of body, with scope for interpretation and red herrings, such as (in the current system map) atmospheric high metal content worlds that could be mistaken for ELWs.
Will the panning speed of the reticle take into account very large systems?
Will the scan view be linear or logarithmic scale?
Will this be tested in VR, where the current system map is very slow to pan around?
Will there be a way to quickly jump to already-discovered bodies, for example, to complete discovering their moons?
Will there be a clear warning in the scanning screen when the ship's fuel reservoir has been replenished, and when the main tank level becomes low?
I hope that the 'Holistic' bullet point also informs tactical play between ships, so that the new scanner can be used to detect other ships in a system at distances where they are not yet visible in supercruise, and is not a walled-off gameplay mechanic only usable for interrogating the static elements of the system and the generated USS, even if for technical reasons, this has to be done by reducing normal supercruise visibility range.
Examples:
* see label on the OP's screenshots
We'll be spending time flying a reticule around this map, looking for the right location to 'cast your rod' using the carets on the reticule as a guide, and hoping a planet is there to bite. I hope that there will be a wide range of possible energy signatures for each type of body, with scope for interpretation and red herrings, such as (in the current system map) atmospheric high metal content worlds that could be mistaken for ELWs.
Will the panning speed of the reticle take into account very large systems?
Will the scan view be linear or logarithmic scale?
Will this be tested in VR, where the current system map is very slow to pan around?
Will there be a way to quickly jump to already-discovered bodies, for example, to complete discovering their moons?
Will there be a clear warning in the scanning screen when the ship's fuel reservoir has been replenished, and when the main tank level becomes low?
I hope that the 'Holistic' bullet point also informs tactical play between ships, so that the new scanner can be used to detect other ships in a system at distances where they are not yet visible in supercruise, and is not a walled-off gameplay mechanic only usable for interrogating the static elements of the system and the generated USS, even if for technical reasons, this has to be done by reducing normal supercruise visibility range.
Examples:
- will a honk elsewhere in the system become visible on the FSS view? (Rationale: as expiring and appearing USS appear and disappear on the scan view, there must be some continuous scan process going on, it's not just interpreting the results of a scanner honk)
- will there be any indication in supercruise when another ship is triggering its focussed discovery scanner to zoom in on a location? It would be nice if there were some downsides to 'zooming in' in a populated location, such as becoming temporarily easier to spot for distant enemies.
- will mining activity create a signal source in the 'FSS' view?
- will player-initiated combat create signal sources?
* see label on the OP's screenshots
This is the question that needs an answer. Will we need to lose a slot for a cargo rack?
In view of the number of posts I've seen focusing on the way that someone else explores, whether someone scans all the bodies in every system or not, if they don't do that whether it's because they're 'cherry picking' bodies that will pay high amounts for data or simply looking for things that they are personally interested in regardless of how much they're 'worth', people who do all (or none) of those things saying that their way is the 'right' way and insisting on applying wholly subjective categorisations of their own invention to other players, such as explorers/travellers/tourists, I wish FDev had embedded this in original post:
https://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/
If people could just give their feedback on the changes as stated without feeling the need to also give their feedback on how other people play the game, that would be great. More to the point, it would also be of much more use to FDev.
https://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/
If people could just give their feedback on the changes as stated without feeling the need to also give their feedback on how other people play the game, that would be great. More to the point, it would also be of much more use to FDev.