News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

[Cobra1984]

As Ziljan has pointed out, we've been discussing the idea as well. I didn't know it was on the roadmap. To me it seems like a no-brainer at the core - the only question is the implementation.

But we'll have to disagree about the minigame being basic and silly. To me it fits the vibe of the game.

Look, we can theorycraft all day long or all year long but it does not change the fact that the proposals put forward for feedback are severely lacking in any meaningful or persistent gameplay and do not represent anything like an 'exploration update'.

If you're happy with it that's great, post your feedback and let them know.

 

[Faded Glory]

Ironic, don't you think, that these are the same people who bitterly opposed the "black sphere" mechanic all the way back in 2.2?

Completely different Marc.

When the detail from the system map was removed, nothing was added to balance it. It just meant you had to fly blindly (those potentially long SC trips) only to find out that what you hoped might be interesting, wasn't.

Now, with the new scanning mechanics, you won't have to fly anywhere, the energy graph will give an immediate indication of what is interesting or valuable, and you'll be able to scan them immediately (and apparently quickly).

 

[Six6VI]

Fact is, I very much doubt that either you or I represent anything close to the average Elite Dangerous player.

Wouldn't surprise me, at all, if the average ED player got stuck after the first mission told them to jump to another system when the start planet happened to be rotated in the opposite direction and therefore in the way, causing them to throw their hands up in disgust and log out after 15 minutes.

Might be nice if some direction was provided on how to resolve that FDev, just sayin...

If you buy a product in the supermarket that you would not usually buy at all because it was reduced from £1 to 50p, you haven't saved 50p. You've spend an additional 50p over and above what you were going to spend.

Yup, I've heard that referred to as "spaving", and it equally applies to high ticket items.

 

[WR3ND]

Ironic, don't you think, that these are the same people who bitterly opposed the "black sphere" mechanic all the way back in 2.2?

Not only is this inaccurate, it doesn't add anything to the discussion. At least mossfoot is hopefully a bit more familiar with that. I had my reservations back then, but I did agree is probably offered more to the game overall for exploration gameplay. Now if we could get back on topic...

 

[Six6VI]

- Have you considered giving USS's life-cycles? So sometimes a signal that starts out as a Convoy might "decay" into a "Weapon Fire detected", which becomes a "Distress Signal", then a "Combat Aftermath" and finally a "Degraded Emissions" before vanishing entirely. Not all signals would follow the same life cycle. It would add a sense of them being a living process.

Hey, now that's a good idea, +1
And, what happens if can only carry one or two of the materials, will the rest stay there for a bit?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Not only is this inaccurate, it doesn't add anything to the discussion. At least mossfoot is hopefully a bit more familiar with that. I had my reservations back then, but I did agree is probably offered more to the game overall for exploration gameplay. Now if we could get back on topic...

Actually, I was deeply involved in the 2.2 Beta, & contributed a lot to the conversation on that Exploration "bug". I have a very strong recollection of those who wanted the bug removed, versus those who wanted it left in.

 

[Six6VI]

I wouldn't be surprised if they are still trying to catch up - I certainly haven't had time to read this entire thread!

I've pretty much dedicated ALL my waking hours to this thread over the last few days, instead of actually playing the game, and I'm still ten pages behind...

Apologies for the apparent disconnect in responses, see above

[Guess I'd like to have some influence over how the next 9000+ hours invested in this game turn out...]
[Not counting the decade+ that I ploughed into the '84 original]

 

[Six6VI]

At this point I don't see a lot of constructive feedback being given by CMDRs here

I'm trying, but it seems to be getting lost amongst the mud slinging...

 

[disorganise]

Ironic, don't you think, that these are the same people who bitterly opposed the "black sphere" mechanic all the way back in 2.2?

Well you're wrong there. I was very much *for* the black spheres. But that was before I'd visited 26k systems where 99.5% are generic and boring.

It's really a micro v macro thing. If you want to find interesting *systems* you need to filter through a lot of systems, and the number of bodies is largely irrelevant The current honk mechanic allows for this. The new system (per OP) makes it slower.... Likely a LOT slower.

If you want to find interesting *bodies* (poi's essentially), you need to filter through lots of bodies and the number of systems is practically irrelevant. The current system is garbage for this and the new system looks to be much better (still reckon you'll be SC up close so it won't be "quick")

I want to do both.

 

[disorganise]

Another compromise option...
Let the insta map start black and convert to low res images that improve *per body type* as you scan (or maybe map?) more of them. Until we end up with the insta system map we have today once suitably "experienced"

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Well you're wrong there. I was very much *for* the black spheres. But that was before I'd visited 26k systems where 99.5% are generic and boring.

It's really a micro v macro thing. If you want to find interesting *systems* you need to filter through a lot of systems, and the number of bodies is largely irrelevant The current honk mechanic allows for this. The new system (per OP) makes it slower.... Likely a LOT slower.

If you want to find interesting *bodies* (poi's essentially), you need to filter through lots of bodies and the number of systems is practically irrelevant. The current system is garbage for this and the new system looks to be much better (still reckon you'll be SC up close so it won't be "quick")

I want to do both.

Define boring? I've never come across a planet that I haven't wanted to land on.......especially since the Beige Plague was eliminated.

 

[WR3ND]

Actually, I was deeply involved in the 2.2 Beta, & contributed a lot to the conversation on that Exploration "bug". I have a very strong recollection of those who wanted the bug removed, versus those who wanted it left in.

You want me to start posting links to my posts on the 2.2 Beta forum here or something? [weird] Come off it, man.

 

[Six6VI]

Have to agree with this - a persistent complaint is 'how do I find Thargoid / Guardian stuff without 3rd party sites?'. If extra cool things are being added then this will just multiply: want to find a Crash X? - look on edsm. If everyone got access to finds once someone sells the data it would allow shared exploration.

Also if you find a lucrative mining spot - do you sell the exploration data and let others see it

Might work well with the codex if it listed 'recently found X' or something.

Yup, yup, and the anticipation is palpable.
ED could be so much more...

 

[Six6VI]

Would a spot of pseudo raycasting help?

You perform a long range scan, and send out a strong pulse. Whatever that pulse washes over, shows up as % surface data. So, if you were firing that pulse from the centre of the system, you'd have (hypothetically) revealed the planets but not discovered the 'dark sides' as they were not facing the pulse front.

You then take this scattershot data and then refine it with your SpaceScope™, looking for planets that are interesting and then use more pings, fired probes etc.

You might weave this into a better supercruise detection method, where active radar shows your position more clearly than passive, higher sensor grades detect more anomaly's etc. So, traders can make stealthy ships that pirates need to look for- and so on. Passive radars might update the scope every second or so, the options are broad and would add a lot to sc travel.

CAUTION: DO NOT deploy within planetary ring systems...

Spoiler

[video=youtube;33SrgAn7hao]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33SrgAn7hao[/video]

 

[Six6VI]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

In this Brave New World, I could literally eyeball a planet, fly to it, crash into it, land on it maybe, and it still wouldn't appear to my ship's computer until I'd jumped through some hoops?

That's ridiculous.

Dare I say it, it's beyond ridiculous.

Agreed. The name I gave my Chieftain months ago is perfect:

SIX37F - BEYOND RIDICULE

 

[Lngjohnsilver1]

So after watching the stream on exploration last night I am both more and less t-eed off with the whole thing.

One thing: Using probes to map a surface is woop dee doo wonderful if it does indeed map out POI's and other wonderful things. However, one presumes this 'map' cannot be transmitted to another commander (or can it?), and if it cannot, will be there some way we can mark a planetary location for another commander and get rid of that GD awful easting and northing coordinates shambles?

 

[Six6VI]

Quick FYI - Seems peeps have wandered off over here...
[Edit: And, due to the above probably, I finally caught up!]

So, conclusions: KISS, and if it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT...

Seems to me there are a number of things here that NEED fixing, and many that simply don't. While I really do appreciate what FDev are trying to do, without disadvantaging anyone that's already way out in the black, and probably relatively happy with their ship, and game the way it is I'm thinking that may be the first part of a problem that doesn't need fixing, since I'm guessing most explorers have gotten used to the idea of having to fly back to one of the bubbles to fit any shiny new technology that might be added since they left civilization anyway.

BDS / IDS / ADS - Ain't broke, leave them exactly as they are.
DSS - Semi-broke, would x3 base range be a simpler solution?
Navigation beacon scans - Should be the SENSORS job instead.
USS - Hopelessly broke - OP sounds like a promising resolution.

Now, the fun part, because there is currently no other way to adequately address the problem of spending hours nay, days dolphin diving landables and listening to your hard drive groan for an indication there may be something other than, quote: "boring" on the surface below. This is what desperately needs to be fixed, so FDev can let us loose on all the new and shiny things that might be out there to be discovered, if only we had more efficient tools to do so, so here's my suggestion:

Add a NEW shiny, for a slot that's typically vacant on exploration ships.

Small, Medium, Large, maybe even a Huge HARDPOINT, for the committed Conda...

So, here's the example gameplay: Lets say I'm not quite in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here on a clear day. I've honked once, sniffed out an "interesting" (expensive) cherry I'd like to go and mark as my territory from near the primary star, using the system map, while scooping, exactly like what already happens, as clearly and vociferously evidenced in this very thread (see above, ad infinitum).

I then set off in supercruise towards my target, which is around 1500LS away and whoohoo! My DSS kicks in way earlier than it used to because I still have my G5 long range modification that nobody tried to take away from me and swap for more ammo for no apparent reason and I have plenty of time to check the system map to see what materials are on it well before I have to worry about crashing into it and lucky me, it happens to have the very common materials I need to restock my "Mapping Probe Launcher" with another sixty thousand rounds of probe ammo, awesome!

As I approach the body, since I've already decided it also looks pretty enough to land on, with lots of ridiculously deep canyons, stupendously tall virtual mountains and a green glowing ringed gas giant just over there for a photo op, I get an alarm which informs me I just reached maximum deployment range for my Mapping Probes so I slow down, drop out of supercruise, deploy hardpoints, cycle through my fire groups until I get to the new launcher and automagically see the shiny new mapping probe lobbing reticle right there in my usual HUD with no need to be yanked sideways into a catastrophically immersion destroying mini-game or 2D flat panel that's way too difficult to use in VR with my HOTAS...

I line up the shot, with the awesome little blue-zone-optimal-targeting helper-widget-thingy that tells me I'm going to cover 33.3% of the surface with a single probe and bombs away. The widget thingy remembers the previous shot, shows me the next 33.3% optimal lob and FIRE! And, because I'm in a conda, and I happened to pick a large probe lobber I can fire a third unit to efficiently cover the remaining third while the first two probes are already in flight, deploying all three into low ORBIT so they don't leave a load of messy garbage or risk contamination of the surface.

Oops, did I forget to mention completely avoiding interdictions and crashing into planets while in normal space?

And, probes populate planet mapping data, pick target, jump back into supercruise...

Tip: You might need to read ALL 2752 replies to get the "jokes".

[/sarcasmludicrousmodesafedisengage]

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

So after watching the stream on exploration last night I am both more and less t-eed off with the whole thing.

One thing: Using probes to map a surface is woop dee doo wonderful if it does indeed map out POI's and other wonderful things. However, one presumes this 'map' cannot be transmitted to another commander (or can it?), and if it cannot, will be there some way we can mark a planetary location for another commander and get rid of that GD awful easting and northing coordinates shambles?

FDEV should add these beacons, but only for OPEN play. I don't want to see other players signs so this function should be off in SOLO.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Quick FYI - Seems peeps have wandered off over here

I don't like that proposal. I'm fine with what proposed by FDEV for the moment. I hate the current system so I don't want any hybrid with it

 

[Marc_Hicks]

You want me to start posting links to my posts on the 2.2 Beta forum here or something? [weird] Come off it, man.

Never said there was a 1:1 correlation.