News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

No, it really isn't just an opinion. To an explorer, surely a planet is a planet.......something that is inherently very exciting to find? So why this arbitrary value assigned to one planet type over another? It'd be like Mawson saying "no point trying to explore Antarctica, 'cause its just a load of ice".

Well, as Tippis and Ziggy said... Hardly.

So again, if someone isn't interested in spending time scanning a barren body of which there are hundreds of billions just like it, then they are not an explorer? It would be helpful honestly if you stopped always trying to categorize others based upon your perceived prejudices.

As I said, if you find it rewarding (no, not credits) to examine any planet regardless of what it might have to offer, then that's fine, the game allows you to do just that. Others want the game to give just enough information about bodies so that they can make an educated and personal choice about what they spend their time investigating. I cannot see why that shouldn't be fine too.
 
What about people who aren't interested in exploring? Who just want to find a station or outpost in a previously unknown system?
Are they going to have to explore it first - or drop out of SC and scan the Nav Beacon - when previously they could have done a 10 second honk?
Surely this change negatively impacts other playstyles. Is that a development goal?
 
I didn't raise that question, I quoted your post which demonstrated my criticism, and I called out your attempt at twisting yourself out of it.

You haven't read or understood my disappointment at Frontier proposing a minigame scanner mechanic in place of meaningful gameplay mechanics as relates to exploration.

There are third party apps bringing more to the game than this proposed scanning mechanic will.

This was the one update I was looking forward to, and there's been more thought put into forum posts quite frankly than two screenshots and a rough minigame spec from Frontier.

You have your logic all backwards and inconsistent. I pointed out the common ground and you tried to twist out of it to maintain your fandom. I see a few others doing the same and I even saw criticism dismissed as 'salt' which is poor.

The original question was... is using your brain instead of a calculator a "redundant" and "trivial" experience? Which is the same question as asking, how automated should the game be, and hence much should the game be susceptible to bots? I am personally of the opinion that the games are more fun when humans can't replaced by scripted AI. And this new mechanic offers the opportunity for gameplay that isn't easily scripted (the opposite of what have now).
 
What about people who aren't interested in exploring? Who just want to find a station or outpost in a previously unknown system?
Are they going to have to explore it first - or drop out of SC and scan the Nav Beacon - when previously they could have done a 10 second honk?
Surely this change negatively impacts other playstyles. Is that a development goal?

I may be wrong but I think stations will continue to appear as they do now. Otherwise yes, you'll need to 'discover' the system, and yes that might take longer if you don't do it regularly & are therefore less familiar with the new skill-based mechanism.
 
I may be wrong but I think stations will continue to appear as they do now. Otherwise yes, you'll need to 'discover' the system, and yes that might take longer if you don't do it regularly & are therefore less familiar with the new skill-based mechanism.

Sorry, mate. I've just finished my 5th, but skill is very much a relative term here – from my experience playing the game, this can not be understated. Anyway, some may need to scan the nav beacon in systems that offer them, which should be simple enough. But yes, might be another step they weren't hoping for.

...

My latest pic from tonight, and now I'm well on my way to the next waypoint...

xEpoh0z.jpg
 
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What about people who aren't interested in exploring? Who just want to find a station or outpost in a previously unknown system?
Are they going to have to explore it first - or drop out of SC and scan the Nav Beacon - when previously they could have done a 10 second honk?
Surely this change negatively impacts other playstyles. Is that a development goal?

Frontier has stated that the initial honk will still reveal all orbiting stations and platforms in 3.3, and scanning the nav beacon in bubble systems will reveal the entire system map so that you won't have to bother with the exploration mechanics if you choose not to.

Of course this could all change before release, but I think Frontier wants to allow bubble players an easy way out.
 
Frontier has stated that the initial honk will still reveal all orbiting stations and platforms in 3.3, and scanning the nav beacon in bubble systems will reveal the entire system map so that you won't have to bother with the exploration mechanics if you choose not to.

I was actually under the impression that stations and platforms would always show up regardless. Ie, not even a "honk" necessary.

As for needing to drop into the NavBeacon, I think that's an improvement in the gameplay loop. Yes, it'll make it a little slower IF you go to a previously unvisited system (Oh noes! My credits-per-hour) but does also make missions/trading more dangerous/immersive and gives the NavBeacons more use.

There's also still the option to buy the NavData when you accept the mission/trade destination.
 
As Dr. Livingston once said: "A tree! I have discovered a tree. Lets investigate it. It's similar to the last tree. This is great! Look! Another tree. Holy smokes, I must check that one out! Oh my! There's another one! I'm going to be here for ages exploring the hell out of this forest, at this rate I'm never going to make Africa this century

Oh my giddy aunt! Is that a rock? It is a rock!"


Except that, to a botanist, no two trees are exactly alike. To a geologist, no two rocks are exactly alike. Maybe you have to be an actual scientist to understand that way of thinking? The point, though, is that all of you talking about planet "values" are basing that subjective view on planets as they are now. After all, who knows what high value information you might be missing out on-on those "barren" planets you currently dismiss-even without the ability to land on those planets (though I suspect 2019 might be the year we start seeing more planets opened up to us). So maybe time to reevaluate your valuations.

Also, as I myself have pointed out-more than once-I am entirely fine with a parallel mechanic that allows the Honk to reveal system map info, with ever decreasing detail as you get further out, along with the new Emission/Gravity well system. I just don't want the infinite Insta-reveal system we currently have.
 
My thoughts

So being that this is going on Page 265 of the chain it will likely never be read by Frontier, which is understandable cause this is a massive thread going on, but if you do see it then here is my feedback as an Elite status explorer:

I will say that overall what I'm seeing here sounds absolutely amazing and hats off to your team for trying to improve exploration! I think this really adds depth to the process of detailed exploration of system bodies and will really work out nicely. In particular the detailed surface scanning and probes to find all POI’s is truly a game changer that both makes perfect sense from a sci-fi standpoint and will also eliminate hours of “grind” type gameplay just to find POI’s. However, I am concerned with how other changes will negatively affect the basic mechanics of how we currently do exploration. Today, for serious explorers (i.e. those who spend most of their time doing it and use the Advanced Discovery Scanner and Detailed Surface Scanner on any ship they go exploring with) there are essentially two levels of exploration:

• What I call “shallow” exploration which is basically hitting the ADS, waiting for the “honk” and then moving on unless something of really high value shows up on the system map
• “Deep” exploration where you actually travel the system scanning bodies of value religiously with the DSS before moving on to the next jump.

In reality I think most explorers do a combination of both, especially if you’re racing back to the bubble to turn in a ton of really good discoveries you found on the way out of the bubble. This is currently the basic exploration game-play for those who do long distance exploration (i.e. halfway or more across the galaxy and back). Yes it’s monotonous at times, but it’s methodical and the level of data you receive initially allows you to make an informed decision on whether you want to invest additional time for more data (and credits). It’s very basic, but it’s solid “time vs. reward” gameplay and makes the multi-hundred FSD jump trip to places like Beagle Point bearable.

My concern is that the new functionality will be a massive improvement when one decides to invest that additional time in exploring a system (i.e. the “deep” exploration play) but will bring the basic travel time of exploration to a screeching halt. Without SOME ability to see at a quick glance after the “honk” whether there’s anything of high value worth spending that extra time exploring for, a commander will essentially have to decide between doing only shallow scans of every system as they traverse one of side of the galaxy to the other (and knowing they’ll likely miss some good things along the way) or do a “deep scan” of every system and just accept that their long trips will take them weeks or perhaps even MONTHS depending on how often they have free time to play. I’ll admit the proposed system does make sense from a sci-fi standpoint (i.e. it’s kind of how you’d expect exploration and mapping of stellar systems to work in real-life 3304) but in practice just aren’t going to be acceptable in game for 2 reasons:

1. Without having the ability to intelligently decide whether deep exploration is worth your time and knowing that more often than not you’ll likely find little of value in an unknown system, I think all but the most hardcore explorers (of which I’m admittedly not) will just choose the “shallow” exploration gameplay, if they continue exploration at all. Those of us who have been doing it for some time know the probability of any given system having something super valuable is relatively low and that more often than not if we go deep exploring “blindly” we will be disappointed with the results; those new to exploration will quickly learn this and give up which would be a real shame for a growing player base.
2. And even worse there’s that whole concept of losing something you’ve already had and having to go to something less capable. It’d be akin to going from years of smartphone use back to an old button flip-phone – you were perfectly ok with it at one point in your life, but now that you’ve had something fundamentally easier you just can’t go back. Plus for the hardcore role-players out there, how do you sort out from a Lore perspective how commanders went from instantly being able to see at a glance what every body in the system was, to now having to look at signals and try to figure it out?

If this is indeed how the new mechanics are slated to work then I likely would give up exploring since I just don’t have that much free time to endlessly scan and analyze signals just hoping occasionally I’ll find that rare Earth-like world (I’ve discovered quite a few already and it’s a real reward when you find them!); I hope I’m wrong cause I really do enjoy exploration (it’s my primary activity in the game).

In order to provide truly constructive criticism instead of just generic complaining, I’d like to propose some slight additions to the currently proposed changes as you’ve laid them out. If we had these then I think it would enable us to continue doing informed shallow exploration, with the MUCH improved gameplay you’ve worked to give us when choosing to do the deep exploration of a system. I propose that you keep the proposed “signal” discovery mechanics that require interpretation using the new interface to find bodies, but also give an instant readout of the following metrics (after doing the “honk” with an Advanced Discovery Scanner):

• # of Earth-like signatures detected
• # of Water World signatures detected
• # of High metal body signatures detected
• # of Gas Giant body signatures detected
• # of Lifeform signatures detected (i.e. brain-trees, pumpkins, or any other lifeforms you guys have out there we have yet to find)
• # of human signal source readings
• # of non-human signal source readings (i.e. signals from guardian, thargoid or non-human structures)

At a minimum if we at least have the Earthlike, Water World and Non-human signal counts then that would give us enough information at a glance to decide if it’s worth investing further time into deep exploration and would improve the entire exploration experience. Alternatively, instead of doing the signal markers you could just display all the planets visually as they are today but require the same mechanics to actually find their location in the system, providing a more interactive gameplay experience.

That’s all I have and looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

P.S. If making these changes would mean pushing out the Chapter 4 release date, I’m PERFECTLY OK with that, even if it it’s Christmas or New Years week (or heck even early 2019 for that matter). In the meantime we have plenty of thargoid incursions to deal with. Cheers!







Hello Commanders!

We're going to be shaking the format up slightly for the final main topic of discussion surrounding some of the major features of Chapter Four of Beyond. We're soon going to be revealing more details about the next update, so for this post, we'd like you to share all of your questions and comments in reply to this thread, and we'll try to respond to as many as we can!

In this post we’ll be presenting just some of the improvements coming to exploration in the next update. There's a number of benefits that we are aiming to bring in with this exploration overhaul which we've listed out below, with more detailed explanation underneath.

Benefits of Exploration Improvements

  • Make exploration more involved: By introducing a process we aim to make exploration feel more meaningful, making the results more satisfying and rewarding.
  • Replace flying time with gameplay: We want to reduce the amount of time you have to spend flying to a planet just to discover it. The only time we want you to fly to a planet is because you want to visit it as there’s something there you want to see or do. Ultimately that will make exploring planetary bodies and getting first discoveries in a system quicker and more engaging at the same time.
  • Remove Random USS Spawning: You will now be able to use your skill to locate signal sources rather than rely on luck. you will have the ability to identify a USS from anywhere in the system and then explore and discover these locations.
  • Reduce the time to find planet surface locations: You will now be able to employ game play to make searching out interesting surface locations/POIs quicker and more interesting rather than flying across the planet in low orbit.
  • Improve multiplayer exploration: With both of the module upgrades we are making sure that wings and multi-crew are supported.
  • Holistic System:The improvements to exploration mechanics tie together not just new discoveries, but mining, missions and signal source location in one package.
  • All new "First mapped": You'll be able to add a first mapped across any planet within the galaxy, including within the bubble. Giving all players that have joined the game since it's launch even more opportunity to make their mark on the galaxy.

Check out the full details below.

The Discovery Scanner

Because explorers ply their trade far from civilized space, we’ve decided to not add new module requirements. Instead, we’re improving the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner so Commanders can jump right in as soon as the update is released, without having to spend time traveling back to a port to purchase new gear.

When you activate the discovery scanner you will now be taken to an all-new scanning interface and view. In this augmented camera view you are able to interrogate the system using new functionality of the scanner.


The process still starts with the “honk” (system scan), though its usage is now the start of a more engaging process (if all you did before was scan for some credits, don't worry, the scan still awards credits.)

The system scan now returns an aggregated display of how energetic the electromagnetic emissions are in the system. Signals are sorted on a low to high scale by their apparent energy. For example, emissions from rocky clusters will appear at the lower end of the scale, hot gas giants at the upper range. This information requires some interpretation as signals can overlap.

You are able to tune the focus of your sensors to a particular point on the scale, making emissions from objects at this range much clearer, at the cost of filtering out signals returned from bodies not emitting at this range.

As you move the view around, you are aiming your discovery scanner sensors. To aid you, the discovery scanner view also features a repeating sweep of gravitational disturbance detected in the system. You can use this sweep to narrow your search for stellar bodies, as well as start your search around the star's orbital plane, which is revealed by the initial system scan.

Emissions that come close enough to your view’s focus are represented by signature patterns around a central reticule. If you are tuned to the correct point on the energy scale the signal will show as a symmetrical pattern clearly showing the direction towards the origin of the signal, allowing you to locate it. The further away your energy tuning, the more distorted and asymmetrical the pattern becomes, hiding the precise direction and location.

Once you have a candidate origin, you can use the scanner to reconstruct a massively zoomed in view. If you aimed precisely enough, you will discover the stellar body. If there are a number of stellar bodies in relative close proximity to your focus, you may need to repeat the process to isolate individual signals.


As you locate and identify stellar bodies their emissions are filtered out, instead becoming markers on the energy range, making it easier to find the remaining bodies. It's at this point in that you will gain the “first discovered” tag, rather than having to physically visit the planet (you still need to sell the data at a port to gain the tag). All current first discovered tags will remain.

Importantly, when you uncover a planet using the discovery scanner, as well as being informed of the resources available on it, the presence of unusual locations, such as Guardian sites, will also be revealed. However, their precise location won’t be shown until you have mapped the planet with the detailed surface scanner.


Unidentified Signal Sources

Along with the Exploration update, we are improving the way that USSs work. USSs will now spawn throughout the entire system when you first enter it. This enables you to use the new exploration tools to find USSs throughout the system, not just in the area around you. You can still interrogate nav beacons to find the locations.

Whilst USSs do still have a decay time, the timers have been increased to allow you time to find and fly to the ones you are interested in. The decay time is also now displayed when targeted. Signal sources still obey rules determining where they can appear within a system, and mission critical signal sources will still be highlighted to differentiate themselves once located.


The Detailed Surface Scanner

Again, this module will not be replaced. Instead, the detailed surface scanner gains the ability to launch micro sensor probes in supercruise. You will use these probes to “map” a planet’s surface and locate resource hotspots in its rings.

These flight-assisted probes are launched via a new aiming interface when activating the detailed surface scanner. The probes will arc towards a planet’s surface and when close enough will “display” sensor coverage over a large area. Once enough of the surface has coverage, the probes will collate and report their findings. To map rings around a planet you need to hit each ring with a single probe.

To allow for skilled play you can aim probes away from the planet, allowing them to arc around it, potentially letting you hit the surface on far side of the planet. If you aim too far away, the probe will fly right past and miss, but by using mass and size information displayed on the HUD you will be able to lob probes and get full coverage without having to fly around the planet.

You will be able to synthesise micro-probes for the detailed surface scanner, but the better aim you are, the less probes you will need to get complete coverage.

When you do achieve this, any unusual locations will be revealed to your ship’s navigation systems. So no more eyeballing an entire planet to find those brain trees!


First Mapped By

We are also adding a new opportunity to get your Commander's name immortalised in the game with the new 'First Mapped By' tag. The first person to successfully map a planet to 100% and sell the resulting data at a port, will be awarded this tag. This also applies for planets that have already got a 'First Discovered' tag as well.


Multi-Crew

As part of the exploration update, we are making sure that multi-crew members can use the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner at the same time and all discoveries are shared among crew or wing.

This allows wings or commanders in multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.


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We'll be revealing more details about Beyond - Chapter Four in the coming weeks and we can't wait to show you, but in the meantime, please post your feedback regarding Exploration in this thread and we'll try to respond to as many queries as we can.

This particular thread is not an area for debate between community members – it’s fine to read what others have put, but try to ensure your posts are directed at us rather than your fellow posters.
 
Except that, to a botanist, no two trees are exactly alike. To a geologist, no two rocks are exactly alike. Maybe you have to be an actual scientist to understand that way of thinking? The point, though, is that all of you talking about planet "values" are basing that subjective view on planets as they are now. After all, who knows what high value information you might be missing out on-on those "barren" planets you currently dismiss-even without the ability to land on those planets (though I suspect 2019 might be the year we start seeing more planets opened up to us). So maybe time to reevaluate your valuations.

Also, as I myself have pointed out-more than once-I am entirely fine with a parallel mechanic that allows the Honk to reveal system map info, with ever decreasing detail as you get further out, along with the new Emission/Gravity well system. I just don't want the infinite Insta-reveal system we currently have.

Why?

Why does the insta reveal bother you? Do you have so much free time that you want to fly 500k light seconds in every direction from a star, to see if there's parallax on one of the points of light, while scanning over and over to see if stuff shows up?

The root problem here is the core gameplay IS grind. Money. Rank. Engineers. All of it just repeating the same actions. PVP is massively lossy, so cannot be repeated a lot. Take... Foxhole and Planetside2 for instance. Foxhole loses some generic, easily replaced gear if you can't get back to it. Planetside2 loses you some time to regenerate currency, and travel time.

ED loses you a rebuy, travel time, any cargo, any failed missions, any exploration data, any carried NPC pilot. For EACH death. This cannot and WILL not be tolerated by most players for repeat gameplay.

So... IMO, infinite range ping is fine, since you need to fly near stuff for the real money anyway.
 
Why?

Why does the insta reveal bother you? Do you have so much free time that you want to fly 500k light seconds in every direction from a star, to see if there's parallax on one of the points of light, while scanning over and over to see if stuff shows up?

The root problem here is the core gameplay IS grind. Money. Rank. Engineers. All of it just repeating the same actions. PVP is massively lossy, so cannot be repeated a lot. Take... Foxhole and Planetside2 for instance. Foxhole loses some generic, easily replaced gear if you can't get back to it. Planetside2 loses you some time to regenerate currency, and travel time.

ED loses you a rebuy, travel time, any cargo, any failed missions, any exploration data, any carried NPC pilot. For EACH death. This cannot and WILL not be tolerated by most players for repeat gameplay.

So... IMO, infinite range ping is fine, since you need to fly near stuff for the real money anyway.

Removal of Mystery is the antithesis of Exploration. If John Hanning Speke had known what the source of the Nile looked like, do you think he would have bothered to set out & find it? Or what about William Dampier or Captain Cook? Or Burke & Wills? Or Charles Sturt (who wrongly believed there was an inland sea at the heart of Australia......shame he couldn't do an infinite ping in order to save himself a pointless journey). These explorers all set out with little to no knowledge of what they'd find on their journey......until they arrived.....& they knew there was a chance they might never get back alive. That is real exploration. What we have now is nothing more than cataloguing.
 
Do you have so much free time that you want to fly 500k light seconds in every direction from a star, to see if there's parallax on one of the points of light, while scanning over and over to see if stuff shows up?

Argumentum ad Absurdium right there. Who was talking about using Parallax or flying randomly away from a star in every direction? We are merely talking about using Emission & Gravitational Anomaly information to create a rough map of a solar system, which can then be resolved by either the method described in the OP, or by flying towards those Gravitational Anomalies (which would be indicated on your HUD) & scanning them yourself.
 
Why?

Why does the insta reveal bother you?

Biggest issue is the lack of any real gameplay involved in Exploration. I know we are debating here whether or not the new mechanics will be gameplay or if it will add gameplay, but the lack of it is the main issue that's compounded with not much to actually find anyway. Since they've decided to just go with a mechanics overhaul that is more engaging to some, the instant reveal is easily discarded for them because there will at least be a bit of something to find (bodies). Some have expressed that this is a regression, but others think it's better to have it over instantly revealing what basically amounts to nothing. If the planets aren't going to be of much interest (I know how subjective and what a rabbit hole this is), if a variety of interesting things (abandoned tea isn't interesting) can't be added to be found on them or around them, then maybe exploration should be about finding the planets themselves. Perhaps that's why, but reasons are going to vary.

It could be far much worse than how many think this is going to be, by the way. Try out Evochron Mercenary/Legacy. You get nothing to explore with in that game aside from better jump range and the only way you can tell you're in a new system is to pay attention where a star's light is shining on your ship. The reward? Satisfaction of discovering new systems/planets (majority of which have nothing worth mentioning and you may not even realize there's a planet until you nearly jump into it and your death). That's not to say that's why this change is good, it could be bad, but it's a different way to look at it.
 
Removal of Mystery is the antithesis of Exploration. If John Hanning Speke had known what the source of the Nile looked like, do you think he would have bothered to set out & find it? Or what about William Dampier or Captain Cook? Or Burke & Wills? Or Charles Sturt (who wrongly believed there was an inland sea at the heart of Australia......shame he couldn't do an infinite ping in order to save himself a pointless journey). These explorers all set out with little to no knowledge of what they'd find on their journey......until they arrived.....& they knew there was a chance they might never get back alive. That is real exploration. What we have now is nothing more than cataloguing.

The idea that it becomes 'exploration' because we have to spend 5 minutes uncovering a system rather than 15 seconds is frankly laughable.

You're still going to be doing nothing more than cataloging, whatever the mechanism is, since there's nothing else to actually do with the information you expose.
 
The idea that it becomes 'exploration' because we have to spend 5 minutes uncovering a system rather than 15 seconds is frankly laughable.

You're still going to be doing nothing more than cataloging, whatever the mechanism is, since there's nothing else to actually do with the information you expose.

TL;DR : We each have our own definition of what constitutes "exploration"; laughing at someone elses' definition is not adding to the argument.

Given that the galaxy map is fully revealed, arguably the only thing left to "explore" is each system. Whether "exploration" starts with discovering what is inside each system, or whether it only starts after you have a pretty good idea and can look at the details, is a personal viewpoint. In the current game, exploration can only start after you know what's in the system, because the act of discovering the contents of the system is revealed instantly.

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Let's use the analogue of exploring a cave system.

Parallax Method
In the old days you go in with a torch and slowly map out the cave, exploring each cavern in turn. You have no idea about the size or shape of the cave system when you start or what might be in it.

Proposed Method
These days you can do a seismic scans to get a very rough idea of what caverns and tunnels might be in the cave system and ground-penetrating radar to get an idea of what rocks and minerals the ground consists of, which gives you an idea of what the cave might contain. You then send in robot drones (scanner interface) to map out the cave system and caverns yielding a full schematic and a detailed view. You then go in to explore each cavern in detail (planetary probes) if something interesting popped up in the detailed view.

Current Method
In the far future (technology indistinguishable from magic) you have a scanner which gives a fully detailed schematic of the entire cave system barring no errors as well as a pretty good view. You then go in to get a more detailed view if you want.

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Now, we can debate until we're blue in the face whether "exploring" means more or less in any of these scenarios. Some people consider exploring to include mapping out each system, other people consider exploring to only start after the mapping process has concluded. In both cases we're only cataloguing/mapping what the procgen (NOT RNG!!) has generated; "exploring" is purely an in-game fantasy (albeit one which I enjoy).


How about FDev gives us more filters for the galaxy map instead of the new system-mapping interface? So you want to find twin ringed ELW's orbiting a GG each with landable moons (*)? Just write a search query to list all the systems within 1000LY of your current position which have that. Would you now be elated to have "discovered" those, and rush off to "explore" them, or would visiting those systems become too humdrum to bother with?

(*) Replace with query of your choice.

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Personally I'm leaning towards the proposed system, at least as far as giving it a chance during the beta is concerned. Whether we "explore" at the galactic map or at the system level, the end result is the same - we're engaging with the game in some way, and as long as that engagement is enjoyable in some way, who cares. Either we find something we like, or we don't.

No matter -what- FDev adds to the galaxy to "explore" (and I really hope they do add more things to find; just not so much that every system will be filled to the brim), it'll still get old as more and more of whatever gets found. Procgen is no answer (look at NMS - there's only so many combinations and they start to look samey rather quickly) and you can't hand-craft an entire galaxy's worth of content - no matter how much they add, the community will consume it quicker than it can be created.

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Darn. And I was really trying not to get involved in this... but now I've typed it I may as well hit "post".
 
Yeah, though I wasn't sure that they were asking for gravitational orbits or just holding altitude in supercruise with some kind of autopilot.

I meant the latter, because as others have pointed out, the game systems don't support accurate gravitational orbits.

Inspired by the end of Banks' Player of Games
where the (D)GOU Limiting Factor, ostensibly sent away to avoid influencing the finale of the book, is in fact doing power orbits of a nearby body, ready to dash in and grab the protagonist if things get messy.
Genar-Hofoen will know what i mean.
 
Removal of Mystery is the antithesis of Exploration.

What mystery is removed?

Except that, to a botanist, no two trees are exactly alike. To a geologist, no two rocks are exactly alike. Maybe you have to be an actual scientist to understand that way of thinking?

Except that a botanist will not go “oh, a tree; oh, a tree; oh a tree…”. Rather, they'll say “a cultivated beech forest, how utterly dull… but hey, look at that grove over there, what a curious combination — perfect for finding this rare orchid.” Same with a geologist on a stony beach.

They immediately identify the large structure; hone in on what's special (if anything exists, otherwise they just move on); and only then start looking for that one special thing. You're confusing science with OCD.
 
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Biggest issue is the lack of any real gameplay involved in Exploration. I know we are debating here whether or not the new mechanics will be gameplay or if it will add gameplay, but the lack of it is the main issue that's compounded with not much to actually find anyway.

...and that is the problem statement right there, that is what players are expecting Frontier to solve in Q4 this year not sometime in the future
 
What mystery is removed?

The mystery of what's in the system. Perhaps a better term would be "the unknown". Whether or not that constitutes a *worthwhile* mystery is a matter of personal opinion (and appears to be largely the cause of the debate).

Only because the current gameplay hands it to you on a platter doesn't mean it wouldn't be a valid target for exploration with different gameplay. And whether or not it would be *worthwhile* gameplay to resolve the mystery is somewhat unknown at this stage and also a matter of personal opinion.
 
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