You are optimist. I'm realist. I think it is intentional.In fact China does have a tiny bit of an area that actually has a tropical climate, but it's less than 1% of the surface area of the country. The issue you are so frustrated about is probably how much space it takes up on the map; more than half the country. The fact is, it shouldn't. But this problem isn't specific only to China. A lot of places in the Eastern and Southern Hemispheres have the same problem. Japan, New Zealand, Southern/Eastern Australia, Tasmania, Southern Andes, Tierra del Fuego and even some islands off Antarctica that should have been tundra are marked tropical.
Although there are factual inaccuracies, I don't think it was intentional or discriminatory like you've suggested. Frontier is based in the UK with most of its developers from Europe. Therefore it is an understandable mistake when you consider where you live is your point of reference when you design something. Therefore such mistakes can occur unintentionally when grouping up biomes from sources you find. That being said, I do understand and respect your concerns about it, since most of the errors are 'pro-North Atlantic' if you will. I had also found it a bit odd when I was compiling all the biome suggestions under one title when preparing my accuracy feedback thread, but I never thought about it the way you did. I simply see them as honest mistakes that need to be corrected.
I would like to summarize and correct a few mistakes made on this thread.
1) From a climatic point of view regions of China are as follows:
2) From an ecoregional point of view (biome) regions of China are as follows:
- Map 1 and Map 2 show the climatic regions of China according to the -3 and 0 degrees Celsius continentality thermoclines respectively. I've used arrows to point to the tropical regions on both maps for easy browsing. Tropical region in Xishuangbanna on the first map is rather difficult to spot - needs downloading and zooming to spot the blue area. For comparison, according to the first map's thermocline Boston, MA would be subtropical, and according to the second map NYC would be subtropical.
- Map 3 is from a scientific paper that was used for the second map. Regions outside the temperate zone are marked in red.
Based on both points of view, the region marked as tropical is more than it should have been. Climatically subtropical is considered temperate, thus tropical accounts for less than 1% of the total area. Bioclimatically subtropical forests of China should account for half of what is shown on the game's map. In short it is inaccurate, even from the games method of grouping up several biomes into one.
- Map 4 shows the broad categorization of biomes of China according to the latest and most comprehensive map. The subtropical region is limited to light green, which is roughly half the area shown as tropical on the game's map.
3) Only Southern Florida in the United States has a true tropical climate; Louisiana or Central Florida doesn't have a tropical climate. They lie in the subtropical zone.
As it is a game with broad stroke representation of biomes like you suggested, I don't see any problems with grouping up several biomes into one. Especially:
Even the following can be grouped although they differ quite a bit:
- Alpine tundra and tundra as 'tundra' - they are climatically and bioclimatically pretty much the same thing, one being affected by elevation the other latitude.
- Subalpine montane forests and taiga as 'coniferous forests/taiga' - same as above
However, if there is inconsistency between regions using the same logic of grouping up different biomes, then there is a problem. In this case there is. If subtropical rainforest regions in North America are grouped up with temperate but subtropical rainforest regions in East Asia are grouped up with tropical, then we have a problem.
- Temperate grasslands, tree or grass savannahs, Mediterranean scrub, tropical dry forests as 'grasslands'
- Monsoon and tropical rainforests as 'tropical'
- Semi-arid deserts and deserts as 'desert' etc.
And this issue isn't exclusive to this case. For instance, temperate rainforests of the Pacific Northwest are marked as Taiga vs New Zealand's temperate rainforests being marked as tropical. Mediterranean scrub region in Spain is marked as Taiga but regions with the same climate in Western Asia are marked as Grassland. Temperate broadleaf forests and tundra of Southern South America are marked tropical when temperate regions of Norway are marked tundra. For more examples you can refer to my thread.
For these reasons alone, I understand and respect people's concerns even if I don't think Frontier is being discriminative on purpose as I've described earlier. To prevent such concerns the game map requires a revision to fix the errors within its own logic of grouping up biomes.
Apart from properly translating the source map into the game, the map you linked (which is also used for the map of the game) is a simplistic hand drawn map with serious errors. A few examples:
For a more comprehensive source I'd suggest this one by Olson et al.
- New Zealand has a temperate climate both climatically and bioclimatically.
- Southeastern United states isn't a subtropical rainforest, it is a conifer savannah. An area that doesn't even qualify as fully humid is marked as a rainforest (one tier above humid), while it is actually closer to the semi-arid end of the spectrum (several tiers below humid).
- Temperate and coniferous regions in Asia Minor are marked as semi-arid steppe.
Surely, but we also need to keep in mind that the game's biomes are more than just foliage tags, they represent both climatic factors and vegetation on game maps. Nonetheless, both the climate classification system used (Köppen-Geiger) and the ecoregional classification (Olson et al. 2001) use natural local vegetation to calculate climates/determine ecoregions.
Conclusion: Hainan Island (except the northern coast and highlands) and a tiny bit of the Myanmar/Laos border should remain tropical. Depending on which map is used, the rest of mainland China should be excluded from the tropical zone and included into the temperate zone as done in the case of Southeastern North America (except Southern Florida) as I described earlier. Otherwise we will also have to deal with more discrepancy; such as why Giant Pandas (and its not the only example - pretty much all animals) in the game don't have tropical instead of temperate (or other biomes for other animals). Everything is interlinked, and should be treated as such to avoid inconsistency and discrepancy.
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You are optimist. I'm realist. I think it is intentional.
Than why isn't New York and Boston tropical on game map?
Nah, not an optimist or a realist. You sound like a conspiracy theorist.
I don't know why you would think they'd be doing this "intentionally" for "discriminatory" reasons. It's just a really, really, really strange thing to think frankly. How is labelling one's country incorrectly as a tropical region offensive? Why would anybody do that in an attempt to discriminate against people from that country?
My home country of NZ is totally incorrect on their map. I wish it was correct, but at the end of the day, they mean well and it really doesn't matter too much.
I don't see how you came to that conclusion. I'm simply saying if regions that are tundra can be marked as tropical on the game's map (completely opposite ends of the spectrum), then there is no point of having climates shown on the map at all.
I think you are lucky to have not met such people in your life. I wish I could say the same. There are a lot of ill-minded people who use all sorts of incorrect information in topics like geography, language, religion, architecture, ethnicity, climate, cuisine, etc. to spread misinformation about one's country to make it sound more "exotic" than it is. I am not saying Frontier is doing the same, but there are definitely people like that. Please don't criticise such a sensitive topic as a lot of people all around the world suffer from it.
Well, in fact, Guangdong and Guangxi Province in China is belonged to subtropical area
Biomes are far from a sensitive topic, nobody is suffering because Frontier made this choice.
You don't have to pick that biome, when playing this game..
If they didn't add it, we would have 1 or 2 people complaining about Frontier not adding this…
Don't bring those other subjects into this - that's creating a discussion that's far from the point.
It wasn't me who brought it up. I'm just telling people to not open up sensitive topics. Climate is in fact a topic people do create misinformation with, even if you can't relate to it. That doesn't mean there are people who don't suffer from it. I've seen people edit hundreds of wikipedia articles to make a certain country look hotter or drier than it actually is. Don't ask me why they do it. Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I do deal with it on a daily basis because that's my profession.
Update: Just noticed you claimed I said people suffer because Frontier did it. I was talking about outside the game, and purposefully stated I don't imply Frontier does it.
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So is majority of eastern United States. But that doesn't make it tropical on game map does it?
that entire green area
If you play sandbox it doesn't, but you can build a zoo anywhere you want on franchise which is the game's main and most invested game mode. And that "pin" stays there. I always precisly pick locations when I build my zoos. To some people this might not matter, but to others it does. If they added a feature that lets you pick a location and each time when you load your zoo you click that "pin", there is a reason they did it and it is a feature.
It shouldn't because those are in a temperate climate.
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no they are subtropical, look for yourself.
That map you use is not working for me with my color blindness. But below map works absolutely fine for me. And as far as that states, (Sub)Tropical is only Florida.
EDIT: I guess this is a point where the discussion can go either way depending on where you get your info.
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As people have pointed out before, that's not a scientifically accurate map. If you do enough research you'll see what I'm talking about.That map you use is not working for me with my color blindness. But below map works absolutely fine for me. And as far as that states, (Sub)Tropical is only Florida.
Wikipedia is never the perfect source for this info.
Another site tells this, now who is telling the truth?
Biome | Definition, Map, Types, Examples, & Facts
Biome, the largest geographic biotic unit, a major community of plants and animals with similar life forms and environmental conditions. It includes various communities and is named for the dominant type of vegetation, such as grassland or coniferous forest.
www.britannica.com
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Exactly, the map you sent is from Wikipedia. The map I sent is made using individual weather station data. Plus one is a climate map the other is a broad biomes map. Even on the map you sent there is subtropical in southeast which isnt in the game.
And to add, subtropical climates are categorized with temperate not tropical. This is why you can see subtropical and temperate on different maps for same places.
So that means that it is correct that the game doesn't list tropical for NY and Boston (USA) because it's actually temperate?
And several maps clearly show some Tropical biome for China, althought it is the smallest of forests, so it's actually correct?
Conclusion: this discussion is not even necessary?
This is a scientific one, specifically adressing China:
What's your purpose of finding different maps when the most comprehensive and accurate one has already been posted in the page before? Are you even reading the whole thread?So that means that it is correct that the game doesn't list tropical for NY and Boston (USA) because it's actually temperate?
And several maps clearly show some Tropical biome for China, althought it is the smallest of forests, so it's actually correct?
Conclusion: this discussion is not even necessary?
This is a scientific one, specifically adressing China:
This map again proves tropical is only at the southern tip so you are proving yourself wrong.
Both china and USA have temperate, subtropical and tropical with similar ratios. but only one has tropical and the other temperate in the game. that's why it isnt equal. i don't understand what you are trying to do here...
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