Engineers Clarifiaction needed for heat-related mods and heat itself, build advice

[Genoscythe]

Hello all,


Now, I'd like to discuss the heat-related experimental effects of the engineers. First off, however I'd ask for some clarifications on heat buildup, heat signatures and detection range:

If I run multiple thermal shock lasers, will their effects stack or is there some kind of heat/second cap? Apart from that, we have got a heat-signature augmenting experimental modification (Emissive Munitions) and one that raises a ships heat (Thermal Shock), wouldn't it make sense using the one that roasts an enemy ship, because the hotter it get's, the stronger its signature, right?

I also have intensively tested thermal shock on NPCs and found out that even when you can already see all their heat-vents opening and glowing, they still seem to be able to use a heavy SCB without taking minor module or hull damage while being fired upon by three L thermal shock beam lasers, is this supposed to be a PvP-only mod? I'm sure it's capped somewhere below 100% heat, one steam guide says 90%.

Concerning thermal vent: I tried to do a stealth build with it, which kinda didn't work out. First off, it always seems to reduce heat by the amount it would have built up when hitting an enemy. So an OC beam would cool you down faster than an efficient one (this was tested with two efficient beams vs. two long-range beams on an asp). However, even when at 0% heat the enemies gimbals and turrets were able to target me. What was I doing wrong, is there a minimum range at which every enemy is able to detect you?

On the Thermal Counduit mod for beam lasers: did anyone test the strength it has at a low heat vs. heat at over 80% a quick search came out with inconclusive numbers. Also is it true that cold firing will actually reduce the damage? Wouldn't that make it totally worthless? Does anyone have a viable build for that?

I'd really like to know what kind of heat-related builds you guys are running. Currently I have a Python, an Asp, a DbX and an ImpEagle (just for the fun).




Thanks for you answers, guys!

 

[Nero Tacitus]

1) Thermal Shock does "stack" in that 2 hardpoints with the effect will increase heat at twice the rate. However, the mod has a potential ceiling; it alone cannot raise the heat of a ship above ~90%, meaning it will make the enemy ship hotter, but unless they burn SCBs or have a lot of high heat weapons, they're unlikely to peak over 100% by much, if at all.

2) Heat does influence signature, but not greatly and not to the extent Emission Munitions can. A DBX burning heatsinks can still hide from a few shock weapons. It can't hide once hit with Emissives.

3) Several experimentals don't work on AI, Thermal Shock being one of them.

4) The AI, like good CMDRs, will still fire at you when you're at 0% heat; they'll simply eyeball the shot with the default fixed position of gimbals.

5) Thermal Conduit was buffed in the last major patch, it no longer suffers a damage malus when at low heat, however its damage potential at high heat was nerfed to compensate. I haven't seen any numbers on it yet unfortunately, so can't advise if it's viable.


Heat builds have largely fallen out of favor as most of the experimentals simply don't work in PvE. While they had a period of unrivalled success in PvP, FDev understandably nerfed them into the ground, and now they're largely ignored. Someone may be able to give you some builds to try out, however I can't help much as I haven't seen any reason to try any of them. I mainly PvE and even if the heat mods did work against NPCs, they wouldn't be worth the effort as the AI will, understandably, burn itself in order to continue the fight, so heat is irrelevant.

The only mod that's worth considering IMO is Thermal Vent, which can help cool the hotter running ships, or even free up a utility slot.

 

[Genoscythe]

4) The AI, like good CMDRs, will still fire at you when you're at 0% heat; they'll simply eyeball the shot with the default fixed position of gimbals.

Thanks for the answers. Concerning the eyeballing, I'm aware of that, however I clearly noticed the gimbal circling of enemy weapons while being shot at 0% heat, so they clearly weren't un-targeting, also turrets still were able to fire at me.

I really started using t-vent since I use railguns, this really helps with constant firing. I might get some regen-beams instead of more therm-shockers then.

 

[Killga_NG]

The only mod that's worth considering IMO is Thermal Vent, which can help cool the hotter running ships, or even free up a utility slot.

Quite some interesting points in your post, thanks for that. I run Thermal Vent on both of my C2 Beams and with a G5 Clean Drive heat rarely goes beyond 50% in a dogfight with my iClipper and mostly stays around 40%. Also contrary to what I read the Clean Drive does seem to make a difference while fuel scooping. Threw the heatsink out a while ago..

 

[WingNuts]

I can say that Thermal Vent does stack. On my Chieftain I'm running 3 small oc beams. 2 have Thermal Vent, 1 Regeneration for experimental effect. 1 medium beam long range with thermal vent. Before I added the thermal vent on the smalls I consistently overheated. Now I stay between 5 and zero degrees.

Wingy

 

[Nero Tacitus]

Thanks for the answers. Concerning the eyeballing, I'm aware of that, however I clearly noticed the gimbal circling of enemy weapons while being shot at 0% heat, so they clearly weren't un-targeting, also turrets still were able to fire at me.

I'll admit, I don't fully understand how heat, signature resolution and targeting work in ED. However, I do know that distance is an important factor in determining at what point you lose targeting (completely select the target), combined with the size of the sensor suite (bigger sensors detect over a larger area, and so, require less heat to lose targeting). If the turrets are still firing at you while at 0% heat, I'm guessing 0% isn't entirely accurate, and the ship is still producing heat, it's just not being retained by the ship, and the sensor size of the enemy ship is still able to detect whatever heat is still being generated by the ship at the range it currently is from you. Only explanation I can think of, hopefully someone can weigh in conclusively.

 

[Genoscythe]

I'll admit, I don't fully understand how heat, signature resolution and targeting work in ED. However, I do know that distance is an important factor in determining at what point you lose targeting (completely select the target), combined with the size of the sensor suite (bigger sensors detect over a larger area, and so, require less heat to lose targeting). If the turrets are still firing at you while at 0% heat, I'm guessing 0% isn't entirely accurate, and the ship is still producing heat, it's just not being retained by the ship, and the sensor size of the enemy ship is still able to detect whatever heat is still being generated by the ship at the range it currently is from you. Only explanation I can think of, hopefully someone can weigh in conclusively.

I think I will have to conduct further testing with players on this. However then, as we all know it, who knows if AI does follow any of those rules?

 

[biohazard15]

I'll admit, I don't fully understand how heat, signature resolution and targeting work in ED. However, I do know that distance is an important factor in determining at what point you lose targeting (completely select the target), combined with the size of the sensor suite (bigger sensors detect over a larger area, and so, require less heat to lose targeting). If the turrets are still firing at you while at 0% heat, I'm guessing 0% isn't entirely accurate, and the ship is still producing heat, it's just not being retained by the ship, and the sensor size of the enemy ship is still able to detect whatever heat is still being generated by the ship at the range it currently is from you. Only explanation I can think of, hopefully someone can weigh in conclusively.

AFAIK, NPCs can detect you in silent running, if they are sufficiently close (most sources state 500m or less). 0% heat is not the same as "true" silent running - your ship still emits heat. So NPCs are able to detect you further.