Yeah, the BGS is meaningless. Again, HOW Exactly does the BGS affect you? Also having a murdervette really doesn't help you manipulate he BGS any faster.
C'mon, this is faintly ridiculous.
- Thread starter Noddie
- Start date
Yes, it is a problem that most of the game's core money making activities are boring as sin, while things that are fun, like say: shooting space criminals is much, MUCH less financially rewarding. There's a great graph floating around somewhere that shows how incredibly disparate the earning levels are.
If you move around like you're supposed to so you aren't maxing out rep at stations they're gonna offer you missions that barely pay out a few thousand credits (and getting to max rep at a station takes a loooonnng time.
If you're upset that mining is so lucrative, either dont mine, or don't mine at exceptional hotspots. Boom! Problems solved!
As for your job, I can only imagine what you do(or more likely don't do) that leads you to want more boring grind in your fantasies. But to address the suggestion that perhaps EVE is the game you're looking for, if you wanna fly? Then FLY. That's this game's core loop. People love Microsoft Flight Simulator and that game doesn't contain progression. Every plane is unlocked at the start. There are a multitude of ways for you to slow down your earnings if that's what you really want. Yes, after over a thousand hours in a game the main challenges are the ones you create for yourself. That's just the fact of existance.
Given that people give negative feedback about the grind NOW I really don't imagine most people will react favorably to "Hey lets make this even MORE grindy."
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I was mostly in agreement with the baseline of what you were saying(i thought). But after this I can see your view of how the game mechanics work is rather flawed
I was mostly in agreement with the baseline of what you were saying(i thought). But after this I can see your view of how the game mechanics work is rather flawed
Alright, then answer the question. How does it affect you? At most the BGS produces MINOR changes in the game. Ooops this system entered lockdown, Ooops this system switched factions. Barely meaningful and you can always LEAVE and go somewhere else. And even those changes are meant to be shaped by the actions of hundreds of players so good LORD yeah if you want some grind, try to single handedly flip a system and good luck to you.
A murder boat can easily effect the bgs and its well understood and your belief that it couldn't shows your lack of understanding. I agree with a fair portion of what you're saying but I cant back you if you are severely misinformed. That is whole problem with politics. People back people's wrong or under explained ideas out of ignorant approval without actually know what they are going along with. If one doesn't understand bgs, their opinion on the effects of bgs are somewhat void imo
Do you realise that groups of players get together in groups and actively engage in the manipulation and maintenance of the BGS? For them it is the GAME, and they are the reasons that their system goes into Lockdown or switched factions.
To dismiss and belittle the player involvement in the BGS just because either you don't play that way or more likely, don't understand how the BGS works just invalidated every argument you have made on this topic.
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^^^this
SAnd players best video game systems to leave their name at the top of the high scores list, but that doesn't meaningfully change the game. Again, my argument is that BGS changes produce relatively minor changes to the actual gameplay. A player group took over my home system. The only meaningful change to the gameplay was that I had to briefly increase my rep with their faction. Ultimately my experience playing the game didn't change. I'm totally aware players work to shape the BGS. Frankly I find the powerplay factions produce more meaningful effects than the BGS. But even powerplay is largely considered to be pointless by most players.
Bgs changes change the market value of things. They change what services a station offers. They change what commodities are considered illegal and thats just what I can think of without checking. The bgs effects literally everything in the game.
And by the way
Sorry you missed my point a while back: This is literally a game about travel. If a system flips to an undesired state on you, you can simply move somewhere else. That's kinda, as I understand the design intention, the point of the BGS: things fluctuate. Braben in a video complained that players don't move around enough (which we'd be more likely to do if there weren't ship transfer costs/times IMHO). Whoops! This system no longer has a black market. Behold: you can easily find another that does.
Again, unless you have decided a specific system is YOUR system, how does that meaningfully effect your gameplay? And even if your home system changes, well, so you have to move a system over to do the trade you want. I'm not seeing what this impacts.
Sorry you missed my point a while back: This is literally a game about travel. If a system flips to an undesired state on you, you can simply move somewhere else. That's kinda, as I understand the design intention, the point of the BGS: things fluctuate. Braben in a video complained that players don't move around enough (which we'd be more likely to do if there weren't ship transfer costs/times IMHO). Whoops! This system no longer has a black market. Behold: you can easily find another that does.
Again, unless you have decided a specific system is YOUR system, how does that meaningfully effect your gameplay? And even if your home system changes, well, so you have to move a system over to do the trade you want. I'm not seeing what this impacts.
Thank you for conceding! I mean it, when you can’t answer my question and revert to personal insults, you’re just telling me you don’t HAVE an answer. Graciously accepted.
From my perspective, you’re asking to change direct gameplay mechanics (the acquisition of ships) that meaningfully effects EVERYONE’S gameplay, for a kind of meta game that meaningfully effects (what I can only imagine) is a small number of players, and ultimately doesn’t impact gameplay much from my perspective. Again, if the system you’re in changes, you go somewhere else. That’s what the map and tools are for.
Sure, I suppose I don’t really understand that mindset. And that’s okay, we all play in different ways. But: If you want to build sandcastles where the tide comes in, then don’t complain when the tide comes in.
Because your specific argument seems really flawed: “I want the game to be grindier” but other players being able to effect the BGS meaningfully means more work for me to achieve my desired state! So you’re asking for the game to be grindier for EVERYONE so its less grindy for you? That doesn’t really make sense. Or I suppose it does, it’s just…selfish.
From my perspective, you’re asking to change direct gameplay mechanics (the acquisition of ships) that meaningfully effects EVERYONE’S gameplay, for a kind of meta game that meaningfully effects (what I can only imagine) is a small number of players, and ultimately doesn’t impact gameplay much from my perspective. Again, if the system you’re in changes, you go somewhere else. That’s what the map and tools are for.
Sure, I suppose I don’t really understand that mindset. And that’s okay, we all play in different ways. But: If you want to build sandcastles where the tide comes in, then don’t complain when the tide comes in.
Because your specific argument seems really flawed: “I want the game to be grindier” but other players being able to effect the BGS meaningfully means more work for me to achieve my desired state! So you’re asking for the game to be grindier for EVERYONE so its less grindy for you? That doesn’t really make sense. Or I suppose it does, it’s just…selfish.
We could take a vote on how many here think you know what you're talking about but it would be superfluous. Everyone has already explained to you why you're incorrect. You just refuse to acknowledge it. That's YOUR problem. Don't make it ours
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You haven't answered my question. You haven't explained how someone manipulating the BGS meaningfully alters your gameplay experience other than, if you're both trying to support competing factions, someone with a bigger ship might have a larger impact than you.
Since you're suggesting the game needs more grind, that just creates more work aka grind for you. So if anything, you should be...happy about that? Since you equate grind with gameplay, more gameplay! So again, why is that a problem?
The only thing that makes sense to me is you're either suggesting you want everybody to be limited to a speed and pace you find satisfying. Force everybody to use smaller ships so you can use smaller ships with a slower pace? Which is STILL pointless for a number of reasons:
1: There are still going to be players with bigger ships who have earned them the hard way and still are exerting greater pressure on the BGS so if thats REALLY what you want to do, you're gonna have to use a big ship anyway.
2: Most players I'm aware of climbing the ship ladder CLIMB THE SHIP LADDER and focus on activities that are going to let them do that, either engineering or credit earning. Most of the players I'm aware of in my admittedly limited experience mess around with end game meta stuff like powerplay AFTER they've already achieved the ships they want. So...you're not seeing newbs with anacondas trying to break the BGS...You're seeing newbs with anacondas trying to A-rate them. (In my experience.)
Or you HAVE your big ship and you don't want anyone else to have one, in which case....well, A: you're selfish, and B: A bunch of players already have them so it's moot, and C: even if you slow down the pace, a bunch of people are still going to earn them eventually. You're just injecting LESS fun and more drudgery into the game.
So from where I'm sitting, you don't have a valid argument for slowing progression that isn't addressed by these issues. Feel free not to make one, but then...your further argument for that game change seems pretty baseless and poorly thought out. Cheers.
It's less meaningful than it should be, but the same could be said about most mechanisms in this game, and it's far truer a statement for some of those others.
It's a major portion of my game. My CMDR has a history, relationships, and motivations, that make him as concerned about who is in control of what as many of the people in this thread are of who is in power where they are. He's participated in, and remembers, the Eranin and Lugh wars that shaped much of my later gameplay. He's watched the geo(stellar?)political map shift in ways that make some areas almost unrecognizable and, during successful campaigns, has helped oppose or roll back some of those changes. He's also frequently experienced failures and setbacks, or made mistakes that haunt him to this day (in one notable example he inadvertently put an enemy faction in charge of his home town, a faction that has held control over it for almost four years at this point). Indeed, the BGS is one of the few areas in the game where success is not assured, making it all the more meaningful.
More tangibly--if you can't grasp, or won't consider valid, any of the intangible motivations for playing--the BGS dictates system states and control factions, which in turn dictate or influence things like local laws, security levels, mission types, and prices for various things (not that the latter means a whole lot at this point). Some of these can still have fairly profound impact on some forms of gameplay...having an anarchy faction in control of a system with a spread of interesting sparring grounds and a good starport makes it easier to organize or participate in certain forms of PvP, for example.
Even that specific example does actually cycle through CZs faster than most anything else. If you can knock out five medium/high CZs an hour in an FDL or Krait, you can do seven with a Corvette or Anaconda.
Don't need to be actively trying to do anything to the BGS to have an impact on the BGS. Some of the most wildly and incongrously transformed areas of the political map are that way because they were popular grind spots and, in more isolated locales, even a small number of CMDRs can have a profound impact, intentionally or not.
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The link has been explained a few times. If you don't get it that's okay, if you disagree that's fine too.
But it has been explained.
No. I've gotten a lot of explanations for what the BGS DOES, not how it impacts people's GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE. Something like "I've had to move a system over to do a mission type" is the kind of answer I'm looking for. "I can't get X mission at my home base anymore." Which are all minor inconveniences. GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE is at issue here because the change we're all discussing, changing the progression system, is a core gameplay experience.
Morbad offered the first real answer: It effects his roleplay. Okay, accepted. That doesn't seem like a compelling reason to slow down progression especially since, Progression affecting BGS issues was basically covered by me above: Players are still going to get big ships and effect the BGS, and Morbad can continue to create meaningful RP stories one way or the other.
As for my comment that a murdervette doesn't affect the BGS any faster: Trade ships are vastly cheaper and easier to acquire. Trading, and completing missions both also effect the BGS and you can complete a numerous mission types in something as small as a cobra (though sure if you're hauling cargo a python is probably more ideal.) I wasn't aware that clearing CZs was the fastest and heaviest way to impact the BGS. If it is? Then fine, accepted.