With the Thargoids providing everyone with a reminder about Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 (Courtesy of Factabulous, see https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...r-IR-W-D1-55?p=6785694&viewfull=1#post6785694) I thought it would be a good time to provide an update on some investigations into the system and some possible implications.
I posted a shot from my EDDi map slightly later in that thread, but given it's lack of clarity I'll explain further here.
With Col 70 locked, what's actually at Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 isn't known, but for quite a while I've been looking at what might be inferred.
Although still unable to make any strong inferences about what's in the system, other things have emerged and it's those aspects that I'll elaborate here.
I've taken a shot from Canonn maps and drawn on key systems to illustrate things better:
The key thing I'd like to highlight is the positions of Soontill and Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, what's between them and the possible implications of it.
Firstly some background.
Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and the Col 70 Sector
- One of the pieces of data transmitted by the Thargoid Probe is distance from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3. This is in units where 1 = the distance from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 to Merope. This was worked out by Cmdr Wace back in 2016 / 3302. 1
- Possibly unrelated but prior to that Cmdr Genar-Hofoen had discovered an antenna at a Dark Wheel base which appeared to be permanently orientated towards Col 70.2
- Col 70 Sector is locked by an Unknown Permit.
- Col 70 Sector is roughly a 1,000 ly diameter sphere, and although everything that is named a Col 70 system is locked, there are unlocked regions within.
- This results in there being a 'wall' of Col 70 Sector systems.
- The wall is about 180 - 200 ly thick at Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3
- The 2 main ways to access the unlocked regions within Col 70 are by crossing from Synuefe to Witchhead Sector (where the Col 70 wall is only 20 - 30 ly thick) or around the back via Col 69 Sector and Barnards Loop.
- There's a 3rd way in which I found, which is a Neutron Star jump which goes almost directly through Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3. See:
- Despite Col 70 being Unknown Permit locked, Wreaken construction are known to be operating therein3
- There are reports that the Col 70 Sector wasn't locked in 3300.
This all strongly implies that some people know full well what is at Col Sector 70 FY-N C21-3, but independent cmdrs are being locked off from it. That leaves the very obvious questions of who is responsible and why.
Efforts have been made by cmdrs to force the release of this information, but these are yet to yield any results.4,5
Soontill
- Soontill 1 is rumoured to have been the site of a base of the Circle of Independent Elite Pilots (a splinter group of The Dark Wheel).
- It's rumoured that it was the site of a joint Human-Thargoid project.
- It's also rumoured that Soontill was the site of a Thargoid R&D base which was lost to the Thargoids, and that the advanced Thargoid technology that had been developed there was used by the CIEP.
- It's rumoured that the base was deliberately destroyed using a weapon developed there following a conflict between the CIEP, remnants of INRA, and another group. This is rumoured to have penetrated the planet's crust and resulted in an outflow of lava covering the area.
- The description of Soontill reported by survivors of that conflict doesn't fully match the known Soontill system.
- Soontill 1 does have an unusual feature visible from space which might be a match to the described base destruction:
- Soontill was apparently mentioned by the Thargoids sometime around 3250 6.
- An auction of Soontill Relics around 3280 was apparently found to have been selling fakes7.
- A new wave of Soontill Relics started hitting the markets in early 3301 7
- Soontill Relics are described as "A slab of unidentified material covered in pictographs of an unknown origin."
- Analysis of those relics was reported to have shown that they could not have been of human origin, but did not fully match with known Thargoid materials 6.
The relics not being a full match with known Thargoid material does indicate there could be some truth to the rumour of Soontill being a Thargoid R&D site which the Thargoids had lost contact with, as this could explain the nature of the material. It's also interesting to note that humanity apparently heard of Soontill from the Thargoids around 2850, which certainly has some bearing on rumours that there has been ongoing contact and possibly some collaboration between the Thargoids and some members of humanity. It also raises an interesting question about why the Thargoids would mention Soontill to humanity, and what bearing that might have on current Thargoid activities.
A big question of course, is how could the Thargoids have lost contact with an advanced R&D site.
The Guardian connection
- Discovered logs from an expedition into Guardian space lead by Professor Melville showed that the Professor had hypothesised that the Guardians had been forced to migrate from an area roughly the size of the bubble 8.
- The logs also indicated that the first site found by independent cmdrs, at Synuefe XR-H D11-102, had been at the edge of Guardian territory, and that sites appeared in denser clusters the deeper into Guardian space that they were 8.
Based on the clustering/density of sites it was possible to estimate a rough centre of Guardian territory.
Based on that I calculated something notable - Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 was slightly closer to the apparent centre of Guardian space than Synuefe XR-H D11-102.
(This remains the case now that the Regor Sector has emerged as the apparent centre of Guardian space. Distances from Regor are 730 ly and 750 ly respectively.)
At the time that raised the possibility that there was some crossover between Guardian - Thargoid areas of space / areas of interest, but the permit lock meant this couldn't be confirmed, and no Guardian sites have been reported near to Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3.
However, what has been established subsequently is a correlation between Braintrees and Guardian space:
- All suitable bodies within 70-100ly of an Ancient Ruin have braintrees.
The exception to this is a large area within Synuefe and Wregoe where Braintrees have been found, but despite searching no Ancient Ruins have been found.
In late October last year, I set out on a search for Braintrees in the vicinity of Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, and immediately found them on the border of Col 70, only 106 ly from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 9.
I've subsequently been able to find an even closer site, Synuefe IH-T d4-14 at 93 ly from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3.
What I've been able to further confirm is:
- The braintree area spreads for a considerable area over the Col 70 border
- There don't seem to be braintrees on the interior border within the unlocked regions within Col 70
- Hence there is an edge to the braintree field somewhere within Col 70 in the vicinity of Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3.
It had been established that the Guardian Ruins were the Ruins left from the second Guardian civil war that had lead to the extinction of their species, rather than an inter-species war.
Therefore given that there was an area of space with braintrees but no Guardian Ruins and the crossover of that with a notable Thargoid related system, there was an implication that the area of space without Ruins might have been the result of a Guardian - Thargoid conflict.
The Guardian - Thargoid conflict hypothesis has since been strongly reinforced by discoveries from logs in the more recently discovered Guardian Sites. These describe a conflict in which the Guardians withdrew from an area of space before then defeating the Thargoids, and then subsequently collapsing into civil war 10.
The Soontill implications
Returning to the image shown at the start:
And the following which shows a line of sight roughly from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 to Synuefe XR-H D11-102 (the dark blue dot within the light blue oval):
There are several key things which can be noted:
- There is a huge region which sits between Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and Soontill with braintrees but no Guardian ruins
- Synuefe XR-H D11-102 is almost on a direct line between Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and Soontill. (It is very close in the x-z plane, but a little bit above the line in the y-plane)
So, there appears to have been a huge conflict between the Guardians and the Thargoids that took place in the area of space between Soontill and Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, which the Thargoids ultimately lost, but even more significantly, even thought the Guardians had withdrawn from a large amount of that space, the territory they didn't withdraw from still intercepted the space between Soontill and Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, towards Soontill itself.
So, there we have it. A set of in game evidence that gives a plausible indication of what could have caused Soontill to have been lost to the Thargoids.
There's still lots of details missing of course, but it certainly supports the idea that Soontill could have been a lost Thargoid site.
It also leaves open many questions, particularly regarding the rumours that it was the Thargoids who told humanity about Soontill, and of course the ongoing question of what is actually at Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and why we independent cmdrs are being denied that knowledge.
References:
Credits & Acknowledgements (where known):
Most of this is very much standing on the shoulders of giants. Many many people have contributed to aspects over the years. Some particular ones are:
Supplemental Info
Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 is a T Tauri star (from Galmap).
What's presumed to be the system layout (from the Thargoid Device spectrogram) is below:
Spansh search set for Braintree candidates (Note! Only works for bodies which have been submitted to EDSM. Many systems and bodies aren't in the EDSM database.)
https://www.spansh.co.uk/bodies/search/D77A7322-B420-11E7-A708-9472C33B8412
Baton's guide to finding Braintrees:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/391830-Brain-trees-How-To-Guide
Edit - added some words which appear to have got lost in revisions prior to posting at some point.
I posted a shot from my EDDi map slightly later in that thread, but given it's lack of clarity I'll explain further here.
With Col 70 locked, what's actually at Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 isn't known, but for quite a while I've been looking at what might be inferred.
Although still unable to make any strong inferences about what's in the system, other things have emerged and it's those aspects that I'll elaborate here.
I've taken a shot from Canonn maps and drawn on key systems to illustrate things better:
The key thing I'd like to highlight is the positions of Soontill and Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, what's between them and the possible implications of it.
Firstly some background.
Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and the Col 70 Sector
- One of the pieces of data transmitted by the Thargoid Probe is distance from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3. This is in units where 1 = the distance from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 to Merope. This was worked out by Cmdr Wace back in 2016 / 3302. 1
- Possibly unrelated but prior to that Cmdr Genar-Hofoen had discovered an antenna at a Dark Wheel base which appeared to be permanently orientated towards Col 70.2
- Col 70 Sector is locked by an Unknown Permit.
- Col 70 Sector is roughly a 1,000 ly diameter sphere, and although everything that is named a Col 70 system is locked, there are unlocked regions within.
- This results in there being a 'wall' of Col 70 Sector systems.
- The wall is about 180 - 200 ly thick at Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3
- The 2 main ways to access the unlocked regions within Col 70 are by crossing from Synuefe to Witchhead Sector (where the Col 70 wall is only 20 - 30 ly thick) or around the back via Col 69 Sector and Barnards Loop.
- There's a 3rd way in which I found, which is a Neutron Star jump which goes almost directly through Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3. See:
- Despite Col 70 being Unknown Permit locked, Wreaken construction are known to be operating therein3
- There are reports that the Col 70 Sector wasn't locked in 3300.
This all strongly implies that some people know full well what is at Col Sector 70 FY-N C21-3, but independent cmdrs are being locked off from it. That leaves the very obvious questions of who is responsible and why.
Efforts have been made by cmdrs to force the release of this information, but these are yet to yield any results.4,5
Soontill
- Soontill 1 is rumoured to have been the site of a base of the Circle of Independent Elite Pilots (a splinter group of The Dark Wheel).
- It's rumoured that it was the site of a joint Human-Thargoid project.
- It's also rumoured that Soontill was the site of a Thargoid R&D base which was lost to the Thargoids, and that the advanced Thargoid technology that had been developed there was used by the CIEP.
- It's rumoured that the base was deliberately destroyed using a weapon developed there following a conflict between the CIEP, remnants of INRA, and another group. This is rumoured to have penetrated the planet's crust and resulted in an outflow of lava covering the area.
- The description of Soontill reported by survivors of that conflict doesn't fully match the known Soontill system.
- Soontill 1 does have an unusual feature visible from space which might be a match to the described base destruction:
- Soontill was apparently mentioned by the Thargoids sometime around 3250 6.
- An auction of Soontill Relics around 3280 was apparently found to have been selling fakes7.
- A new wave of Soontill Relics started hitting the markets in early 3301 7
- Soontill Relics are described as "A slab of unidentified material covered in pictographs of an unknown origin."
- Analysis of those relics was reported to have shown that they could not have been of human origin, but did not fully match with known Thargoid materials 6.
The relics not being a full match with known Thargoid material does indicate there could be some truth to the rumour of Soontill being a Thargoid R&D site which the Thargoids had lost contact with, as this could explain the nature of the material. It's also interesting to note that humanity apparently heard of Soontill from the Thargoids around 2850, which certainly has some bearing on rumours that there has been ongoing contact and possibly some collaboration between the Thargoids and some members of humanity. It also raises an interesting question about why the Thargoids would mention Soontill to humanity, and what bearing that might have on current Thargoid activities.
A big question of course, is how could the Thargoids have lost contact with an advanced R&D site.
The Guardian connection
- Discovered logs from an expedition into Guardian space lead by Professor Melville showed that the Professor had hypothesised that the Guardians had been forced to migrate from an area roughly the size of the bubble 8.
- The logs also indicated that the first site found by independent cmdrs, at Synuefe XR-H D11-102, had been at the edge of Guardian territory, and that sites appeared in denser clusters the deeper into Guardian space that they were 8.
Based on the clustering/density of sites it was possible to estimate a rough centre of Guardian territory.
Based on that I calculated something notable - Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 was slightly closer to the apparent centre of Guardian space than Synuefe XR-H D11-102.
(This remains the case now that the Regor Sector has emerged as the apparent centre of Guardian space. Distances from Regor are 730 ly and 750 ly respectively.)
At the time that raised the possibility that there was some crossover between Guardian - Thargoid areas of space / areas of interest, but the permit lock meant this couldn't be confirmed, and no Guardian sites have been reported near to Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3.
However, what has been established subsequently is a correlation between Braintrees and Guardian space:
- All suitable bodies within 70-100ly of an Ancient Ruin have braintrees.
The exception to this is a large area within Synuefe and Wregoe where Braintrees have been found, but despite searching no Ancient Ruins have been found.
In late October last year, I set out on a search for Braintrees in the vicinity of Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, and immediately found them on the border of Col 70, only 106 ly from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 9.
I've subsequently been able to find an even closer site, Synuefe IH-T d4-14 at 93 ly from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3.
What I've been able to further confirm is:
- The braintree area spreads for a considerable area over the Col 70 border
- There don't seem to be braintrees on the interior border within the unlocked regions within Col 70
- Hence there is an edge to the braintree field somewhere within Col 70 in the vicinity of Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3.
It had been established that the Guardian Ruins were the Ruins left from the second Guardian civil war that had lead to the extinction of their species, rather than an inter-species war.
Therefore given that there was an area of space with braintrees but no Guardian Ruins and the crossover of that with a notable Thargoid related system, there was an implication that the area of space without Ruins might have been the result of a Guardian - Thargoid conflict.
The Guardian - Thargoid conflict hypothesis has since been strongly reinforced by discoveries from logs in the more recently discovered Guardian Sites. These describe a conflict in which the Guardians withdrew from an area of space before then defeating the Thargoids, and then subsequently collapsing into civil war 10.
The Soontill implications
Returning to the image shown at the start:
And the following which shows a line of sight roughly from Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 to Synuefe XR-H D11-102 (the dark blue dot within the light blue oval):
There are several key things which can be noted:
- There is a huge region which sits between Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and Soontill with braintrees but no Guardian ruins
- Synuefe XR-H D11-102 is almost on a direct line between Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and Soontill. (It is very close in the x-z plane, but a little bit above the line in the y-plane)
So, there appears to have been a huge conflict between the Guardians and the Thargoids that took place in the area of space between Soontill and Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, which the Thargoids ultimately lost, but even more significantly, even thought the Guardians had withdrawn from a large amount of that space, the territory they didn't withdraw from still intercepted the space between Soontill and Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3, towards Soontill itself.
So, there we have it. A set of in game evidence that gives a plausible indication of what could have caused Soontill to have been lost to the Thargoids.
There's still lots of details missing of course, but it certainly supports the idea that Soontill could have been a lost Thargoid site.
It also leaves open many questions, particularly regarding the rumours that it was the Thargoids who told humanity about Soontill, and of course the ongoing question of what is actually at Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 and why we independent cmdrs are being denied that knowledge.
References:
1. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...8-The-Canonn?p=4369717&viewfull=1#post4369717
2. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ift-(Part-3)?p=3981295&viewfull=1#post3981295
3. https://community.elitedangerous.com/galnet/uid/588b1e769657ba121799dc8e
4. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/5b0e81d74dfb2e25ae40c979
5. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/429052-Aegis-and-the-Phoenix-Campaign
6. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/18-MAY-3301
7. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/e3650db48fcce4488905b3e13763eebad65735b8
8. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/589db33015ac1c292f68b825
9. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...a-Collection?p=6076764&viewfull=1#post6076764
10. https://canonn.science/codex/guardians-codex/
2. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ift-(Part-3)?p=3981295&viewfull=1#post3981295
3. https://community.elitedangerous.com/galnet/uid/588b1e769657ba121799dc8e
4. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/5b0e81d74dfb2e25ae40c979
5. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/429052-Aegis-and-the-Phoenix-Campaign
6. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/18-MAY-3301
7. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/e3650db48fcce4488905b3e13763eebad65735b8
8. https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/uid/589db33015ac1c292f68b825
9. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...a-Collection?p=6076764&viewfull=1#post6076764
10. https://canonn.science/codex/guardians-codex/
Credits & Acknowledgements (where known):
Most of this is very much standing on the shoulders of giants. Many many people have contributed to aspects over the years. Some particular ones are:
Those at Canonn who produce the maps. (And Canonn in general for many things.)
Genar-Hofoen - For finding the The Dark Wheel base with the Antenna fixed on Col 70
Cmdr Wace - For decoding the reference to Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 from the Unknown/Thargoid Probe
Jelicoe et al. - For their in-game & RP efforts to get those responsible to drop the Col 70 permit or release information on Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3
MadRaptor - for the Milky Way Society of Organics & Geologics
Baton et al. - For determining the criteria for finding Braintrees
The makers and users of EDDiscovery, EDSM & EDMC - for the data contained therein
The makers of EDDiscovery - for the maps
Spansh - whose tool allowed Baton et al. to easily find candidate Braintree bodies from the EDSM database
The many cmdrs who have found Braintree and hence Guardian areas throughout the galaxy.
Cmdr PanPiper et al. for finding the area in Wregoe with Braintrees but no Guardian sites.
Cmdr XDeath - For triangulating the location of the first Guardian site
Many many people for Guardians investigations, particularly everyone involved in the efforts to solve the Ram Tah Decoding the Ancient Ruins Mission.
Noodlz05 et al. for being first to complete the mission, and obtaining the universal scanner upgrade, allowing Guardian sites to be spotted via the Nav Panel/HUD.
Many many people - for searching for and discovering Guardian sites.
Everyone who provided means to submit discoveries, and collated the information.
Everyone at Canonn who checks and confirms reported discoveries.
Rizal72 - for the Megathread Front Pages, and maintenance thereof.
Genar-Hofoen - For finding the The Dark Wheel base with the Antenna fixed on Col 70
Cmdr Wace - For decoding the reference to Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 from the Unknown/Thargoid Probe
Jelicoe et al. - For their in-game & RP efforts to get those responsible to drop the Col 70 permit or release information on Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3
MadRaptor - for the Milky Way Society of Organics & Geologics
Baton et al. - For determining the criteria for finding Braintrees
The makers and users of EDDiscovery, EDSM & EDMC - for the data contained therein
The makers of EDDiscovery - for the maps
Spansh - whose tool allowed Baton et al. to easily find candidate Braintree bodies from the EDSM database
The many cmdrs who have found Braintree and hence Guardian areas throughout the galaxy.
Cmdr PanPiper et al. for finding the area in Wregoe with Braintrees but no Guardian sites.
Cmdr XDeath - For triangulating the location of the first Guardian site
Many many people for Guardians investigations, particularly everyone involved in the efforts to solve the Ram Tah Decoding the Ancient Ruins Mission.
Noodlz05 et al. for being first to complete the mission, and obtaining the universal scanner upgrade, allowing Guardian sites to be spotted via the Nav Panel/HUD.
Many many people - for searching for and discovering Guardian sites.
Everyone who provided means to submit discoveries, and collated the information.
Everyone at Canonn who checks and confirms reported discoveries.
Rizal72 - for the Megathread Front Pages, and maintenance thereof.
Supplemental Info
Col 70 Sector FY-N C21-3 is a T Tauri star (from Galmap).
What's presumed to be the system layout (from the Thargoid Device spectrogram) is below:
Spansh search set for Braintree candidates (Note! Only works for bodies which have been submitted to EDSM. Many systems and bodies aren't in the EDSM database.)
https://www.spansh.co.uk/bodies/search/D77A7322-B420-11E7-A708-9472C33B8412
Baton's guide to finding Braintrees:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/391830-Brain-trees-How-To-Guide
Edit - added some words which appear to have got lost in revisions prior to posting at some point.
Last edited:
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