Collector limpets getting stuck at the Cargo scoop: The apparent cause, and a workaround

Abstract​

Due to delays between Limpet drone delivery, Elite updating the cargo inventory list and deducing whether the Cargo is full, it is better to buy fewer Limpets than the maximum Cargo by an amount equal to the number of Collectors.

Introduction​

Especially often after Ascendancy, the Collector limpets are retrieving items but pausing when they reach the moment of delivery and just following the starship around as if the Cargo hatch is closed. This is not a new problem, but it has become much more frequent now, and a little Powerplay salvaging has given me the opportunity to observe it closely and deduce a workaround!

More specifically, the first Collector completes the delivery quickly, then subsequent drones can become stuck as long as a minute or so.

Observation​

To set the example case, I saw this when salvaging Power wreckages by flying out with a Cargo hold full with Limpets and using targeted Collectors for each item, with all four drones from a 3B Operations Multi-limpet. The first item appeared to deliver, in my case always the more valuable Black Box to get it away from possible harm, then any further drones would take a needlessly long time to complete a delivery. It turns out that the full Cargo is a contributing factor!

The first clue appeared after responding to that by changing to use a larger Shield and smaller Cargo, and opting to take only the Black Box. The Collector drone delivered the item as before, but now it revealed a new insight due to being both the first and last Limpet used—a time delay between delivering the item and seeing the Cargo full message. This was missed before due to having used several Limpets, which suppressed the message (logically!) but showed the symptoms of such delays.

A later observation was that delivered items can take much time to appear in the Inventory, sometimes not until entering Supercruise.

Testing​

Given the full Cargo clue, my first thought was to buy one fewer Limpet, in my case 63 rather than 64 in a class 6 Cargo rack. The idea was that perhaps that the delay is related to whether the Cargo is full versus non-full, and that way there should never be any question; 63 targeted Collector limpets can not possibly deliver 64 items.

This did not work fully, but it provided an even better clue: the first two deliveries now completed quickly. This indicates actually that there is a delay in Elite noticing that those Limpets are no longer in the Cargo; presumably limpets become stuck when checking whether there is room for an item, and has to wait for Elite to update it all.

That being the case, I discarded three more Limpets so that my Cargo total became 60 of 64. That way, even though using four Collectors should leave the Cargo total at 56, they all can still deliver items despite Elite thinking the total still is as much as 60. This worked very well!

In practice it may suffice to fly with 61 of 64 when using four drones, but with 60 of 64 there is surely no question of Cargo space for four items.

Afterword​

This is not observable consistently, but given other recent similar problems such as delayed Hyperspace jumps, I am quite sure that the Ascendancy popularity and approximate doubling of active Commanders is exposing problems which always existed conceptually but occurred seldom without that activity demand.

Research limpets have been doing the same thing over the past year or so, perhaps applying generally to the concept of a drone leaving the starship and returning with an item, although that case would require a lot more testing to be confident that it has the same workaround and thus probably is the same problem. Having observed Research limpets become stuck in the same manner but only occasionally, it would be unscientific to ignore the successes when deciding whether a change is an improvement!
 
Nice work. There also something off with SRV cargo storage. Cargo just gets kicked around instead of being picked up, and then after a period will be added to the inventory. Haven't found how to replicate. Just assumed it was latency related.
 
I have just had the same issue, first time ever for me. But in contrast to what you describe, I only set off with half the cargo hold full of limpets. I went to a wreckage signal source and started scooping up, and after two or three deliveries the limpets started procrastinating under the scoop.

While this was happening, when I selected an item contact in the left hand panel, the ship claimed my cargo hold was full, even though I had 20ish units free. I have not had this problem before ever. It's the first time though I am using the collector function of an operations controller - maybe that's the issue? Also, it was on a Mandalay, so... new ship issue?
 
Does seem to be worse - normally it happens during long Thargoid Sampling runs or when mining (neither case ofc is with a full hold). Today had it on a Black Box mission which was more annoying as there were only a few boxes but there were angry NPCs who weren't as willing as I was to wait for the limpets to decide to dock 😬
 
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And I thought I was going nuts this evening at Cocijo!

This is particularly annoying for pod rescues - because a lot of the time I have to abandon my limpets to incoming hunters and interceptors, or their grabbers knock them out. So I just take more limpets with me. But if things go smooth, I run into this. Which means time wasted in favor of incoming hunters and interceptors... aargh.
 
Cargo space unfortunately does not actually fix the issue (entirely). My experiences with recovering pods from a Titan in meltdown, where I generally take about half of the available capacity in limpets, is that even if there is plenty of free space, and was even before limpet launch... they still just get stuck there. ANd it doesn't appear consistent in which limpet/-s do(es) or do(es)n't get hung up below the hatch. I even had rescue ship limpets snatch a pod out from one of mine because they were just refusing to hand it over to my ship.

I do think/agree that it is a server-related issue, which may be more prone to occur in busy areas/systems. As an example, and while I don't know if the principle is the exact same, when I was mining out in the Coalsack nebula (for some local missions) I never had any issues getting the limpets to provide their collected fragments to the refinery unless it itself happened to be delayed in its processing into cargo of the relevant resource(s). And, though that is nothing new either, the limpet launch out of a cargo hatch being delayed by several seconds from trigger pull.
 
Although a different use of the cargo bay, there is also an issue with the scoops when picking up cargo manually rather than with a limpet. The scoop scope displays 'cargo acquired' when you have collected a unit but the message does not disappear. It takes a pattern of deselecting the next cargo unit and closing and then opening the scoop to reset the system into a state in which collection is possible again.

I thought that perhaps the two phenomena are related.
 
yeah definitely still happens regardless of cargo capacity. in my case i only had 85 limpets out of 656T of possible cargo space. seems more related to server side transaction delays. ive tried disabling the controllers, closing and reopening my cargo scoop, even manually collecting.

the issue also extends to manual scooping, it will just stop you from scooping anything else(with limpets or manually) until the server recognizes that the item you scooped has moved from the scoop to your cargo hold.
 
I've noted a lot fewer issues when playing through the day (EU time). I usually notice when it is the evening because I start to get limpet issues.
 
yeah definitely still happens regardless of cargo capacity. in my case i only had 85 limpets out of 656T of possible cargo space. seems more related to server side transaction delays. ive tried disabling the controllers, closing and reopening my cargo scoop, even manually collecting.

the issue also extends to manual scooping, it will just stop you from scooping anything else(with limpets or manually) until the server recognizes that the item you scooped has moved from the scoop to your cargo hold.

This^^ exactly.
 
Everything you guys have said about "noticing when the cargo is full" seems to apply to "noticing when the refinery is full" for me when laser mining. I have found that backing the ship up as if I was going to run right over a fragment, so that the "parked" position of the drones behind my ship lands right on the fragment, seems to unstick it.

(The thing that is "sticking" is a bin finishing, which should then put a canister in the hold, but instead the canister sticks in the hopper; even when there are slots free in the hold.)
 
Been having this issue while doing black-box missions.

I was using a 3A launcher with half a dozen limpets in stock and total cargo space of 16t.
Launched 2 limpets, they both collected something and just sat there.
I got impatient and discovered that, if I started targeting contacts (using the Nav HUD) until I accidentally picked something my limpets already had hold of, the limpet would deliver it and then expire.

Seemed to work every time, although it means you burn through a lot more limpets and it's not really viable for mining.
 
Heck, never mind the cargo scoop not working, I'm not getting any merits for my power cargo that has been collected, when handing it in!!!
 
From reading above, and my own experience this week, I know 2 things for sure, my limpets didn't get stuck before Ascendancy, and now they do. It seems like this is an old issue that has reappeared.
Free cargo space isn't the cause, it's symptom of the same problem as I routinely leave dock with 50 limpets in a 128 rack. FDev have added god knows how many columns to the big spreadsheets behind ED, and I think its that at fault.
I had ED "Black*snakename*" when I tried to hand in 50+ occupied pods in one go as well.
 
I got impatient and discovered that, if I started targeting contacts (using the Nav HUD) until I accidentally picked something my limpets already had hold of, the limpet would deliver it and then expire.

Seemed to work every time, although it means you burn through a lot more limpets and it's not really viable for mining.
OK, now the question is - if you target something and wait for the limpet to twitch then untarget - does that work? Could be a slightly better workaround?
 
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