So, I've recently returned to the game for the first time since the latest update, and am engineering a Mamaba, but I've dropped into 2 "combat aftermath" USS's and they both turned out to be lousy threat=1 "scan a data point and get squat for a reward but rep" scenarios. These used to be decent material collection sites. Are they all threat 1 scenarios now, or did I just get unlucky both times?
Combat aftermath USS
- Thread starter Spacecat
- Start date
I think they're all the "Do a silly thing for a bit of rep" now SC.
Shame. [blah]
Shame. [blah]
I have the same experience, all Combat aftermath USS I have seen in 3.3 were "Threat 1" which contain one black box and trigger a "scenario" which is so simple I'm not sure it can even be called that.
Interestingly, the description of some materials still says they can be found in Combat aftermath USS, so something definitely doesn't work as intended - either the USS should still contain materials or the descriptions need to be updated.
Interestingly, the description of some materials still says they can be found in Combat aftermath USS, so something definitely doesn't work as intended - either the USS should still contain materials or the descriptions need to be updated.
How about weapons fire detected threat 4?
ALWAYS a clean convoy and no enemies/bad guys.
Or how about a Distress call threat 5? Still has the bugged scenario where if you attack the pirate farragut, BOTH farraguts turn hostile to you. This scenario was removed from the game in one of the 2.x patches because it was so horribly broken, how did it get back without being fixed?
USS are so messed up right now, don't even get me started on HGEs.
ALWAYS a clean convoy and no enemies/bad guys.
Or how about a Distress call threat 5? Still has the bugged scenario where if you attack the pirate farragut, BOTH farraguts turn hostile to you. This scenario was removed from the game in one of the 2.x patches because it was so horribly broken, how did it get back without being fixed?
USS are so messed up right now, don't even get me started on HGEs.
OK then I will...
I put it to you that the HGE mechanic is much better than it was now that:
A: They spawn when you enter a system and we now have the tools to find them without flying in circles and waiting for them to just magically appear. (though I still haven't forgiven them for sabotaging your dinner plate method in 3.2 when they could have just left it till they implemented the proper mechanic).
B: When you do find one it tells you the faction state it's spawning in so you know what to expect when you get there.
What's broken is the BGS where they seem to have misjudged the state change sensitivity so that only a handful of factions have any state at all.
I don't agree.
They tried to offset the ease of finding HGEs using the new FSS, by having a very low initial spawn rate of HGEs and introducing some RNG. Unfortunately they went too far on both of those.
The overall spawn rate is too low GIVEN THAT the number of dice rolls to get a HGE you want is 4.
Roll 1: Does the system have a HGE?
Roll 2: Which factoin does the HGE belong to? (this is the big one, if you asked me, I would say HGEs specifically can only be owned by the controlling factoin, so that the galaxy map showing STATE, corresponds to the state of the HGEs you can expect to find)
Roll 3: Which of the three states does the HGE have?
Roll 4: Will the materials correspond to state or be totally random (currently we are seeing non outbreak mats in outbreak state HGEs and non War mats in War HGEs).
That's WAY too many layers of RNG to apply to a saple size of just ONE OR TWO HGES!!
They need to either dramatically increase the spawn rate of HGEs, or somehow ensure that their state is predictable (to a reasonable degree, such as my suggestion of only controling factoins owning HGEs in their system, not even a canonical stretch, treasure in the sea belongs to the country who owns that particular seabed).
Now throw in the fact that the states that spawn certain g5 mats are already rare. Good luck finding first of all a factoin in that state, that is in a system THAT IS LIKELY to spawn HGEs, combined with that 1 in 6 roll for hte right faction, the 1 in 3 roll for the right state, and the 50-50 chance that the HGE contains the correct gear.
Compare that to the old method... I find a system in the galaxy that is in this state, I go there, I follow my HGE spawn method, if none spawn (did used to happen sometimes) I try another system with the right criteria. Once I;ve got one HGe, I know it has a 50-50 chance to contain the one out of the two materials that each state can spawn, and I know that once I've got one HGE in that system, I will be able to get more.
The point is consistency. If I wanted to farm pharma isos, I knew I had to find a good system in outbreak and I'd be able, if I put enough time in. Now I have to hope that an outbreak system even spawns an HGe, hope that the HGE belongs to the factoin that is in outbreak, and hope that the HGE itself has the state of outbreak.
The alternative is diabolical...going from system to system picking up any random HGEs I can find, then trading them down ad 6 to 1 for what I really wanted. Completely rubbish and this was supposed to be an inmporvement.
Final point, game systems shoudl reward skil and experience. I could have written a detailed guide to gathering before 3.3, now there is no need for a guide. All you have to tell someone is: "hges are totally random now, just go system to system and pick up everything you see then trade for what you wanted"...hm...great gameplay.
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I think the descriptions have been out of date for some time. Updating them would be extremely helpful.
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I think your at a different starting point than FD here.
Your underlying assumption is that FD want finding HGEs engaging and fun, I'm not sure that's true.
I remember going searching for the thargoid thingy that let you get into the 'goid bases and see all the stars. I went round and round and round and round and round that bloody ammonia world for at least a couple of hours before the thing turned up. And it's not like it even gave you any in-game advantages, it just let you get access to a really cool bit of content they had added to the game. That was just *insanity*, both them putting that pointless grind wall in front of the content and me actually spending all that time doing it.
But that sort of nonsensical make-them-grind-for-it-they-must-love-it-cos-they-keep-doing-it mentality is pervasive in the Elite Dangerous design ethos.
And that is exactly what they want you to be doing for the HGEs.
Take the nerf they applied to your HGE method in 3.2, basically by making sure the HGEs stopped spawning at the same distance from a settlement/station as all the other dross that can turn up, thus making it a huge PITA again to find the things.
When I read your post and tried your method on doing that it turned a O-this-is-pants-this-cant-be-the-way-you-have-to-find-these-things experience to an Oh-thats-a-nice-little-dopamine-hit-every-time-I-see-another-HGE-spawn type of experience. It was actually enjoyable.
When they applied the 3.2 "fix" that got rid of that they were saying "No, we don't want you to get them that easy, we *want* this experience to be soul destroying so we're taking out that shortcut".
And I believe they have now rigged the current mechanism to give you a similar rate of return.
But that doesn't change the fact that the *mechanism* they have given us to do it is better than the old one. It's just that it's still just as pointlessly difficult to find what you want.
And that would be absolutely *fine* if there was another, skill-based method of getting the mats you needed.
That would be pretty easy to do too, all they would have to do is allow *all* the mats to drop from destroyed ships, but to base the *quality* of the spawn on the difference between the load out of the ships and the combat ranking of the NPC pilot.
So for example, if you take a kill pirate lord mission and you turn up in your super engineered 'vette with A class G5 engineered everything and destroy his Annie you might get what we get now, a 50% chance of a single very rare mat being dropped.
But if you turn up to the same encounter in your stock E-rated sidewinder with fixed pulses and take out the same pirate lord then you would get 20 or more very rare mat drops.
Then have a sliding scale betwen those two extremes, dropping only dross if your better kitted out than your opponent or if you have loads of help to do it (either wingmates or sys auth or whatever)
*That* would make mat gathering fun and would also give us CMDRs that have been around a while a good reason to try out our more niche ships again.
Repped for a well written, well reasoned post. But again I don't agree, and my main reason for this is that the circumstances that spawn materials are actually stated in the material description in-game. It may not always be fun, but it is SUPPOSED by design, to be predictable. And also, they stated the goal of 3.3 HGE adjustments was to make it more rewarding and less time consuming to find them. They have succeeded at neither. If you look at the negative steam reviews, a large proportion of them are complaining about how it is too difficult to engineer your ships to compete with those who grind for materials, and it's a 100% valid complaint that FD correctly tried to address.
I agree I can change my approach as you suggest, but that's not good enough. After trawling system after system for 6 HGEs of any kind, which takes HONESTLY longer than it did before, for me, as opposed to going to the right system and fly around (boring) to get HGE spawns. It wasn't fun, but it was reliable. The new system is slightly less annoying in terms of long periods of frustration, but is worse in terms of rewarding effort spent. There's nothing worse for me than having to trade 100 of something I;d like to keep (proto heat radiators) for just 16 of something I really need (which is only TWO modules worth of materials).
For many, I agree, this new system is no better or worse in terms of acquisition of mats, and less boring overall, however, as I mentioned, it's a bit sad when you can no longer educate people on a method of obtaining mats, because there is NO method any more. Finally, I mention again that it is bugged and some states are not producing the materials they should.
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I agree that it's bugged, at the very least the Combat aftermath USSes mentioned by Spacecat in his OP. I just hope they dont simply update the descriptions instead of fixing the spawns themselves.
But let me also answer your points above (that I didn't earlier as my last post was already text wall) because I still believe even though the current mechanism is misfiring, I still think it's fundamentally sound:
Roll 1: Does the system have a HGE?
-- This is based on system pop isn't it? So the spawn rate at least is deterministic.
Roll 2: Which factoin does the HGE belong to? (this is the big one, if you asked me, I would say HGEs specifically can only be owned by the controlling factoin, so that the galaxy map showing STATE, corresponds to the state of the HGEs you can expect to find)
-- Let me turn that on it's head as I think it's basically working the right way, but I think they need to change the gal map so that when you put a filter on for a specific state it shows you all systems with *any* faction in it at that state, not just the primary faction. Without that you're right, it's awful trying to find what you want.
Roll 3: Which of the three states does the HGE have?
-- Well, at least you can see this as soon as you've found it now, so you don't have to actually *go* there to find out it's not what you want.
Roll 4: Will the materials correspond to state or be totally random (currently we are seeing non outbreak mats in outbreak state HGEs and non War mats in War HGEs).
-- 100% agree with this, once it HGE is identified on your scan it should 100% of the time drop what you expect - if they want to keep the RNJesus factor they should have the Encoded USSes occasionally drop grade 5 mats instead.
Also, I still say it'll get easier if more factions were actually in a state other than "none", but I believe they are basing "easier" on the situation in 3.2 which wasn't easy (or fun) at all.
But let me also answer your points above (that I didn't earlier as my last post was already text wall) because I still believe even though the current mechanism is misfiring, I still think it's fundamentally sound:
Roll 1: Does the system have a HGE?
-- This is based on system pop isn't it? So the spawn rate at least is deterministic.
Roll 2: Which factoin does the HGE belong to? (this is the big one, if you asked me, I would say HGEs specifically can only be owned by the controlling factoin, so that the galaxy map showing STATE, corresponds to the state of the HGEs you can expect to find)
-- Let me turn that on it's head as I think it's basically working the right way, but I think they need to change the gal map so that when you put a filter on for a specific state it shows you all systems with *any* faction in it at that state, not just the primary faction. Without that you're right, it's awful trying to find what you want.
Roll 3: Which of the three states does the HGE have?
-- Well, at least you can see this as soon as you've found it now, so you don't have to actually *go* there to find out it's not what you want.
Roll 4: Will the materials correspond to state or be totally random (currently we are seeing non outbreak mats in outbreak state HGEs and non War mats in War HGEs).
-- 100% agree with this, once it HGE is identified on your scan it should 100% of the time drop what you expect - if they want to keep the RNJesus factor they should have the Encoded USSes occasionally drop grade 5 mats instead.
Also, I still say it'll get easier if more factions were actually in a state other than "none", but I believe they are basing "easier" on the situation in 3.2 which wasn't easy (or fun) at all.
1. Nope, definitely not. Currently the best bet is high tech or industrial economies. Population seems to help in some way, but when you're looking at the difference between one HGE spawn and 3 max, it just takes way too long to collect reasonable data (but I am doing it and will publish the results, probably just in time to be a waste of my time as they change it again). Even high tech is not a guarantee though.
2. I think you missed the point on that one. The HGE can belong to ANY Faction, so if you see on the galmap an outbreak state, you have a 1 in 6 (or however many factions there are in the system) chance for it to have a THREE IN ONE chance of being an outbreak state HGE. On a sample size of 1 or 2, that might as well be 100% random.
3. True, but again if the sample size is 1 or 2, the chances of getting what you want is pretty slim. I'd prefer to have a reasonable expectation to start with (which would be satisfied by addressing only point 2, I admit). This is the least problematic of the rolls, mainly cos it's only 1 in 3.
4. Yeh...
For me, 3.2 was easy, but not fun. I have a guide half finished, with screenshots showing how long it takes me to get how many materials. I could get 45 of pretty much anything in an hour-ish under the old system. No it wasn't fun, I admit, but it was reliable.
To say things are ok, you need to be ok with the fact that you are going to be trading for what you want 90% of the time, rather than actually targeting those materials, which in my opinion, for an advanced game like this, which is logical in most other ways, is backwards and I really hope, was not intended.
I just go to the Nav Beacon, get all the USS's, fly to the ones I want.
Combat Aftermath IS now pointless tho'
I'd like Private Data Beacons at every "Encoded" site tho', and not "Degraded"?
Just sayin'.
Combat Aftermath IS now pointless tho'
I'd like Private Data Beacons at every "Encoded" site tho', and not "Degraded"?
Just sayin'.
1. OK, well it *should* be based on sys pop, if that's not a bug then it should be.
2. No, I did get that but I guess... see my point below, same for 3
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree here, fundamentally I prefer knowing whats in the system before I start actually going to the USS to see whats in them, even if that takes more time overall. You seem to be more focused on your rate of return for the time you spend searching.
Both are perfectly valid as far as I'm concerned.
Having said that it definitely wouldn't hurt for them to increase the spawn rates across the board.
But I think my drop mats from destroyed ships based on the difference in combat capabilities is a winner. I may spin up a thread just for that and see if it gets any traction.
1. I wouldn't mind if it was, but I'm also thinking why would 100 farmers be more likely to have high end materials than one large high tech corporate? Every so often I see indicators that player traffic plays a role, but can't say for sure yet. The exceptions to that are sol and Sirius which never spawn HGEs. But then they are both high pop (and one is high tech too) as well, so...
2. I am the same, I want a reasonable expectation of what I will find. The current system specifically precludes that. It's less about time than about predictability and patterns.
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I cant tell how to even scan the thing. It said that the information was corrupted and I couldn't figure out how to properly scan the beacon. Do I need a manifest scanner? Recon limpets?