Combat is Impossible...and Not at all Fun

Blackcompany

Banned
B
Maybe its me. Maybe its Engineered NPC ships. Maybe its a bit of both.

But my A Rated Courier cannot out turn Viper III and Cobra III. I cant stay behind anyone, or get positive on them. AI ships are flipping and turning literally on a dime. No amount of combined thrust - back/forward with up/down - NOTHING works.

Its a shame. About once a week, I get the urge to dive in and enjoy some combat. And for months I was having fun. Felt I had a fair chance at actually winning a fight now and then.

And all of a sudden, an A Rated Courier cannot even outmaneuver multi purpose and lesser fighters. And not only can I not outmaneuver anything...I dont even stand a chance. These ships are simply too good.

Alas, I think its finally time to admit that Elite simply isnt the game for me. I obviously am not willing to put in the time to "train" my "combat skills" ( i have a life outside of Elite) so I think perhaps its just time to move on.

Shame. I used to enjoy this game. But it is simply impossible now. And everything outside of combat is boring and unengaging - basically, its just scoop, watch load screen, repeat - that I cant be bothered. I want game play, not spectating.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
Hey, Blackcompany, do you ever use FA-Off when flying combat?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cmdr Eran Mintor

Cmdr Eran Mintor
Are you using or familiar with how to use fa-off when trying to out-turn or flank someone? Sounds like you need a little more practice. I also recommend getting some enhanced drives they don't require really any rngineer grind
 

Truesilver

Truesilver
To forestall all the other responses you're going to get to this thread, man ... please:

1. Install vid software

2. Do some of the training scenarios

3. Post the vid

At that point we might be able to give you some really helpful feedback.

But until you do 1, 2 and 3 above, experience suggests that a text-alone forum discussion won't be the best way for us to achieve anything.
 

Araviel

Araviel
space combat is rarely about outmaneuvering and getting on the enemies six. do not confuse it whit atmospheric dogfighting.
its a real shame that you are not willing to put in the time to train, otherwise i would be very willing to train you in game if you are on the PC.
 

Blackcompany

Banned
B
I use FA-off for loops. I combine that with Up/Down thrust. I use forward/back to help with tighter turns.

Every AI ship I see can out turn and outmaneuver me. Every fight. Cobra III, Viper...I have seen Pythons out turn my Courier. And that is with 4 pips to high performance engines and Clean Tuning at Tier 3 (cant find stuff for Dirty Drives and cant be bothered to search for it).

Sigh.

Its just time to move on. I appreciate it. I really do. Especially since I have yet to see the (nigh inevitable) git gud reply. I really do appreciate the help. But I'm frustrated and honestly, the sad truth is, I'm no longer enjoying Elite. Combat is simply too frustrating and everything outside of combat is more time sink/wait wall/load screen than it is gaming.

- - - Updated - - -

Araviel said:
space combat is rarely about outmaneuvering and getting on the enemies six. do not confuse it whit atmospheric dogfighting.
its a real shame that you are not willing to put in the time to train, otherwise i would be very willing to train you in game if you are on the PC.
Click to expand...

My lack of willingness does to be honest stem from a lack of free time. Its not a lack of desire. Its more...I have about 10 hours per week to game. Across ALL of my gaming interests. I simply dont have the time to "train" at video games. I sometimes wish I did, but I simply dont.

Thanks. The sentiment is appreciated. Really it is.
 

Araviel

Araviel
Blackcompany said:
My lack of willingness does to be honest stem from a lack of free time. Its not a lack of desire. Its more...I have about 10 hours per week to game. Across ALL of my gaming interests. I simply dont have the time to "train" at video games. I sometimes wish I did, but I simply dont.

Thanks. The sentiment is appreciated. Really it is.
Click to expand...

just give me 2 out of those 10 hours and i will make you an ace pilot fairly soon :)
 
Last edited:

insanephoton

insanephoton
Ok, forgive me if this is a patronising question but do you keep the throttle in the 'blue zone'? That's where the sweet spot is for turning. If you're stuck in full throttle you'll get out-turned by most things, and another thing is using the vertical thrust will help with the turn.
 
Last edited:

Blackcompany

Banned
B
insanephoton said:
Ok, forgive me if this is a patronising question but do you keep the throttle in the 'blue zone'? That's where the sweet spot is for turning. If you're stuck in full throttle you'll get out-turned by most things, and another thing is using the vertical thrust will help with the turn.
Click to expand...

I do those things. I wont claim to be perfect at them. But I fly the same combat ship I used to fly when I was fighting before. Except now, its slightly better than it used to be. And where I used to be successful in combat, now, I cant even stay alive.

I may keep at it a while, who knows, but...honestly, its really beginning to wear me down. Wouldnt be so bad if there were engaging activities outside of combat I could swap to now and then to take a break. But combat is the only engaging thing to do in the game and its so hard now its pure frustration.
 

Argus Leadhead

Argus Leadhead
I'm curious as to what rank most ships you fight against are, as well as what your own combat rank is.

I've noticed higher ranked ships can pull off some crazy manoeuvres to stay on target. It certainly takes some practice to be able to match the top 3 ranks (deadly, dangerous, elite) in terms of combat capabilities as they're the only ones that may have engineered modules of their own (minus weapon special effects; those have been removed from NPCs altogether.)

I'm not exactly an ace pilot myself, but for most ships I draw the line at dangerous ranked ships. They're quite challenging for me, but not impossible.

As for combat being the only engaging thing to do in game; have you tried NPC piracy? Personally, it brought a breath of life to the game for me and made it more enjoyable as well as profitable.
 
Last edited:

Blackcompany

Banned
B
metatheurgist said:
This can be a trap. Enhanced Performance Thrusters Class 3 have an optimal mass of 90. It's really easy to go over this in a Courier. That's probably why other ships are flying circles around you. You might be better off going back to normal thrusters if you're not prepared to make a lightweight build. Check your ship stats.
Click to expand...

You know...I hadnt thought about that. One of my issues seems to be that I dont turn as well as I expected to...thanks for the tip.

Argus Leadhead said:
I'm curious as to what rank most ships you fight against are, as well as what your own combat rank is.

I've noticed higher ranked ships can pull off some crazy manoeuvres to stay on target. It certainly takes some practice to be able to match the top 3 ranks (deadly, dangerous, elite) in terms of combat capabilities as they're the only ones that may have engineered modules of their own (minus weapon special effects; those have been removed from NPCs altogether.)

I'm not exactly an ace pilot myself, but for most ships I draw the line at dangerous ranked ships. They're quite challenging for me, but not impossible.
Click to expand...

I'm not a very high rank. Expert, maybe. And tonight I tangled with a Master Viper III and one Master Cobra III. The Viper I could keep position on pretty ok. The Cobra...I was never even in that fight. At all. Could not out turn. Couldnt get position. Seemed his ship could just reverse course on a dime and come right back at me.

I understand I need to get better. And that to do so, I need to carve out the time. If I can I will, but I have a ton of interests outside of Elite and honestly, I am a pure fun sort of gamer these days. More often than not, I turn the difficulty slider down before I "train." The demand for 30 straight minutes of constant, unerring perfection during late game boss fights are why the otherwise excellent Dark Souls series and I parted ways. Love the games and their atmosphere, but ultimately I just end up frustrated. Same thing here.
 

Cupsuki

Cupsuki
I've said this many times, NPC'S don't use any kind of engineer mod and they fly extremely well it doesn't matter if you are in a vulture or cutter if you make a mistake then he'll out turn you and then you will be at a disadvantage. They now fly with a combination of FA OFF and use of all thrusters so you should learn that too. Although without a video is hard to tell what you are doing wrong
 

Cerisse

Cerisse
Ive recently got a second non horizon account and have been using non engineered ships for the CG or high res sites. I have to say Im not good with FA off but the most important things I have found is to stick the throttle in the blue area for better maneuverability, use 4 pips to shields when under fire, and run when things start to go south!

And for this combat CG, my latest tactic which is working really well is to take a few shots in my Cobra at the big guys, FDL, Pythons, Anacondas etc to get aggro, 4 pips to shields and then high tail it back to the Security force ships who will then attack the pursuer. I turn round and help finish them off and get the bounty.

Its all about pips, blue power area and know when to run.

On my own, with no security, its a different matter, Id maybe have a go at anything up to an asp in my cobra but Id be ready to bail if its not going my way, but use security when you have it and you will naturally improve. Its not meant to be onerous or a chore to learn combat, it will develop.
 

Windscreen Smudge

W
I've got to see what you're doing before I can possibly fathom what's going wrong. The courier is a cinch for butt-hugging.

Engineers has nothing to do with it, you're just not getting the rhythm or something. People are doing just fine against NPC's while flying Dropships and other literal bricks.
 

Argus Leadhead

Argus Leadhead
R34per said:
I've said this many times, NPC'S don't use any kind of engineer mod and they fly extremely well it doesn't matter if you are in a vulture or cutter if you make a mistake then he'll out turn you and then you will be at a disadvantage. They now fly with a combination of FA OFF and use of all thrusters so you should learn that too. Although without a video is hard to tell what you are doing wrong
Click to expand...

They do though. It's been said by the devs. Not many do, only the higher ranking ones and even then it'll only be a few of their modules. What NPCs absolutely don't have is the weapon special effects.

From the 2.1.03 patch notes : - Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none

(source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267701-Update-2-1-03-Incoming )

At a glance through any patches after 2.1.03, there is no other mention of changes to NPC's in regards to engineered modules as far as I can see, but 2.2 was a pretty massive patch note so I may have missed it.
 
Last edited:

Windscreen Smudge

W
Argus Leadhead said:
They do though. It's been said by the devs. Not many do, only the higher ranking ones and even then it'll only be a few of their modules. What NPCs absolutely don't have is the weapon special effects.

From the 2.1.03 patch notes : - Reduced the number of engineer mods on AI ships substantially, now only Deadly & Elite rank ships are guaranteed to have mods and any below Master are guaranteed to have none

(source: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/267701-Update-2-1-03-Incoming )

At a glance through any patches after 2.1.03, there is no other mention of changes to NPC's in regards to engineered modules as far as I can see, but 2.2 was a pretty massive patch note so I may have missed it.
Click to expand...

Modded or unmodded doesn't matter, something the OP is doing is horribly off kilter. If I weren't training up an NPC crew member right now I wouldn't be doing any combat because the AI is terribad to such a heinous degree it's sickening. Every time the fight starts to get interesting I turn around for another run just to see them literally parked in place and slowly turning to face me.

It's just..... It's bad... Even Master, Dangerous and Deadly NPC's come to a full stop on a regular basis because they're not handling their thrust correctly. Only NPC's I haven't caught doing a 3 step turn and park in the middle of a fight is Elite, and even then Elite Anacondas have no idea what to do if you get within an Anaconda ship's length of them. They just start wobbling and slowly increasing thrust in random directions until they finally build up enough speed to pull away.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
R34per said:
I've said this many times, NPC'S don't use any kind of engineer mod and they fly extremely well it doesn't matter if you are in a vulture or cutter if you make a mistake then he'll out turn you and then you will be at a disadvantage. They now fly with a combination of FA OFF and use of all thrusters so you should learn that too. Although without a video is hard to tell what you are doing wrong
Click to expand...

Repeating false info desn't make it true, though. Not even in times of alternative facts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom