Combat is now boring and tedious (PVP)

[Bangfish]

Due to the plethora of shield boosters on every ship weapons suddenly became kinda ineffective and sometimes it really takes ages to strip one's shield especially when supported with shield cells. Fitting multiple shield boosters is not a problem, just toy with priorities in power management. Most of the encounters revolve around going 4SYS, 2WEP and facing each other in slow and tedious mexican standoff.
The most effective way to kill somebody now is to buy a vulture and set the course for ramming.

The game suddenly feels like all skill from pvp combat is gone.

 

[Loskene]

Can't say I've noticed this. Skilled pilots still fight like you'd expect skilled pilots to. Shield boosters increase your maximum value but don't effect the recharge rate, so while it makes them stronger at the start of a match it takes them way longer to reach that level if they collapse. Good, evasive flying to sustain fire on target while avoiding being shot is no less effective than it used to be.

 

[Defacto]

What if all the equipment we had were sidegrades, or things which added increased functionality, without making anything directly stronger (like heatsinks)?

Personally (and this is really only my opinion), I think things would be a lot more ''balanced'' if upgrades were about diminishing-return sidegrades instead of straight increases, and utility/internal slot modules were about sacrificing something you had before for something else, or sacrificing a slot for something of very limited and situational use, instead of the straight upgrades (such as shield boosters) we have now.

Edit:

It all started with shield cells. Though I never was all too eager for PVP, with shield cells I'm even less interested.

I would say that it started when frontier added outfitting beyond just weapons and utility slots. Suddenly, you could pay more, and make your ship more agile without any drawback as long as you held your power budget (and credit budget)

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

Shield boosters increase your maximum value but don't effect the recharge rate.

The recharge rate after a shield collapse becomes much longer if you use boosters.

 

[Derath]

The two most important things in a pvp engagement are - Initial loadout, and Pips management, shield boosters really haven't changed this at all other than making it more obvious when somebody is completely outclassed.

I would say however that perhaps some of the weapons are too energy efficient, I'm not entirely sure pulses are weak enough to distinguish between the very high cost (energy wise) of beams compared to pulses

The issue with that is if you fit pulses and not beams, you can fit boosters - there really isn't a drawback to this, beams one and only advantage is the ability to do high dps over a short time period, thats ruined when every ship is tanky and your overall ship dps is fairly similar whether you use pulses or beams, so why wouldn't you run pulses + boosters? Its a homogenisation problem.

Obviously its a bit more complicated than that but i just used beams vs pulses to make the point.

 

[Bangfish]

I mean it doesn't really seem like FD is putting much thought into balancing. They bolstered defenses across the board and left rails and frags with 30 ammo.

 

[Derath]

Good point, both frags and rails have been getting weaker every patch effectively as burst becomes less and less relevant :/, I mean frags were already bad cannons (but very fun) but at least rails had a great purpose before. They could certainly use some more ammo, as could missiles imo.

 

[Loskene]

The recharge rate after a shield collapse becomes much longer if you use boosters.

I said that directly after the bit you quoted.

 

[Derath]

You talk about boosters.
Would you agree when I assume 2 equally skilled players, one with boosters, the other one without, that not necessarily the one with the boosters will win? If your answer is yes, could you say the same about shield cells? Or correct me if I consider SCs as "nobrainer" for PVP situations
(I'm talking from theory and reading, I've actually no clue )

This is a tough question because the real question is, what did the 2nd player do with the power he saved? I haven't used a shield cell in a pvp engagement since the python nerf I think lol, except against bangfish when he 2v1'd me! I do fit boosters now, as they already fit my playstyle and i'd rather use those than SCB's (the pythons very easy with power management)

Edit: I'm gonna say it depends how good these two pilots are

If they are equal, and bad, the boosters win

If they are equal, and know their management, the superior weaponry wins

 

[Bangfish]

You talk about boosters.
Would you agree when I assume 2 equally skilled players, one with boosters, the other one without, that not necessarily the one with the boosters will win? If your answer is yes, could you say the same about shield cells? Or correct me if I consider SCs as "nobrainer" for PVP situations
(I'm talking from theory and reading, I've actually no clue )

I don't even use shields cells. I was fighting with 3 A rated shield boosters on my FDL in Lugh and literally couldn't die. Died once from ramming, that was about it. And those were even 1vs5 scenarios. Clearly someting is a bit off.

 

[Mohrgan]

PvP can be good fun, but I don;t think FD is terribly concerned with it. And, they probably shouldn't be. PvP is a very small part of ED, in my view. You can't give people a feeling of accomplishment, and reward by making all of the ships the same, in terms of PvP balance. If a Eagle was just as useful as a Python, why would any PvP guy use any thing else. I'm convinced and hopeful that PvP is just going to have to develop organically based on where FD are going with the game. It is the bane of all online games for the Dev's to have to chase the FotM PvP balance issues.

 

[Bangfish]

PvP can be good fun, but I don;t think FD is terribly concerned with it. And, they probably shouldn't. PvP is a very small part of ED, in my view. You can't give people a feeling of accomplishment, and reward by making all of the ships the same, in terms of PvP balance. If a Eagle was just as useful as a Python, why would any PvP guy use any thing else. I'm convincedand hopeful that PvP is just going to have to develop organically based on where FD are going with the game. It is the bane of all online games for the Dev's to have to chase the FotM PvP balance issues.

With all due respect, I am not interested in this "ED is not a pvp game" Mobius style blabbering. ED is clearly a pvp game judging just from the sheer numbers of player driven events, heavy pvp community involvement etc. I don't play pve at all. You have no data to backup your claim. I can as well state that pve is a tiny portion of the game and send you all to Mobius. I am not doing this so please...

 

[Mohrgan]

With all due respect, I am not interested in this "ED is not a pvp game" Mobius style blabbering. ED is clearly a pvp game judging just from the sheer numbers of player driven events, heavy pvp community involvement etc. I don't play pve at all. You have no data to backup your claim. I can as well state that pve is a tiny portion of the game and send you all to Mobius. I am not doing this so please...

I'm sorry you don;t want to hear my views. I guess you are looking for a back rub, not a conversation. Even though the game has Open, and many people see a PvP game there, if you followed the development, and what the Devs, including DB, have to say, it's about Cooperation not Combat. But, all you have to do is look at the development so far, and I think you'll see I'm pretty much right.

 

[Bangfish]

I'm sorry you don;t want to hear my views. I guess you are looking for a back rub, not a conversation. Even though the game has Open, and many people see a PvP game there, if you followed the development, and what the Devs, including DB, have to say, it's about Cooperation not Combat. But, all you have to do is look at the development so far, and I think you'll see I'm pretty much right.

I included PVP in the thread title for this very reason... To avoid the inevitable thread derailment from the local rabid pve community. Well, it didn't work.

 

[Derath]

Stick at it you might get some genuine comments preferably from people who don't automatically think pvp should = homogenisation.

 

[Doctor Axel]

Others may feel differently, but to me, PVP in Dangerous is exactly as important as PVP in Minecraft.

 

[Derath]

Others may feel differently, but to me, PVP in Dangerous is exactly as important as PVP in Minecraft.

then go get them to buff the python back up

 

[Mohrgan]

I included PVP in the thread title for this very reason... To avoid the inevitable thread derailment from the local rabid pve community. Well, it didn't work.

So, only posts that you agree with...... ok. That should make you feel better. That rabid PvE community is the backbone of the playerbase. Who would you concentrate on satisfying? PvP issues will have to, and should take a back seat to general game improvements for the foreseeable future. There is just too much for FD to do, to start the 'PvP Balance Jig". Opposition helps you form a stronger argument. Shutting out opposition leaves you in a bubble thinking everyone agrees with you. Is that what you want?

 

[Darth Ender]

pvp combat - assuming none of the participants are cheating - should be a drawn out process if both ships are matched.


If being drawn out is the complaint then the problem is just too many "multi-purpose" ships. If more ships that had decent combat ability were forced to balance like the Vulture, you would see a lot fewer people able to simultaneously tank their ship and load it up with offensive ability. That and the changes to heat production allow a bit too much flexibility in your ability to defend while simultaneously offend.

 

[Bangfish]

So, only posts that you agree with...... ok. That should make you feel better. That rabid PvE community is the backbone of the playerbase. Who would you concentrate on satisfying? PvP issues will have to, and should take a back seat to general game improvements for the foreseeable future. There is just too much for FD to do, to start the 'PvP Balance Jig". Opposition helps you form a stronger argument. Shutting out opposition leaves you in a bubble thinking everyone agrees with you. Is that what you want?

This thread was for pvpers (again, see PVP in the title) and I wanted to hear what fellow pvpers have to say. You basically derailed this very thread into some pvp X pve war. Gratz. I really don't know what else to say. Again it proves the official forums are probably the worst alternative to discuss the state of the game.