Combat logging and bans

[DNA-Decay]

My understanding is that it's an accumulation of "disconnects in instance with other CMDR"

There was a big noise made about Frontier not investigating Combat Loggers, but my understanding is that the CMDRs who did it deliberately to try to trigger a shadow ban are also frequent PvP players so they would have an accumulation of "shared instance with other CMDR" flags. I doubt Frontier keeps records of each disconnect, just adds another drop to the appropriate bucket.

 

[babelfisch]

Subjective.

No, it's a fact that large parts of the community don't care about combat logging in open and an even bigger part doesn't care about combat logging in solo. There is nothing subjective about it.

An unfair advantage in gameplay I suspect is more important to people that you may credit it, never mind the fact it flies in the face of fairness (conceptual I know). Remember that whether you see it as important or not that all actions change the BGS and by using unfair game mechanics a player literally cheats every other player in the game, whether they realise it or not or find it important or not.

Passiveness doesn't affect the BGS, by combat logging you refuse to play the game which doesn't change the BGS one bit. The only difference it makes is someone saving money for the rebuy, which in turn means he could have it slightly easier to manipulate the BGS because otherwise he could go bankrupt. Something that is unlikely to happen considering how easy the game is and how easy you can get away (either by h-jump or legit logout timer).

It's very discrimatory to say something along the lines of "I should be able to cheat even if it damages other peoples experience".

Who does that?

 

[Vorxian]

It's very discrimatory to say something along the lines of "I should be able to cheat even if it damages other peoples experience".

It works both ways, however.

Someone griefing a station letterbox is as damaging to someones experience as combat logging is for others.

If for argument sake, someone is attempting to destroy me using an exploit as I undock and leave a station.. and combat log to prevent this happening, and it 'ruins' their fun. In causality, who's in the wrong?

Combat logging during actual combat is a bit naff though.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

It works both ways, however.

Someone griefing a station letterbox is as damaging to someones experience as combat logging is for others.

If for argument sake, someone is attempting to destroy me using an exploit as I undock and leave a station.. and combat log to prevent this happening, and it 'ruins' their fun. In causality, who's in the wrong?

Combat logging during actual combat is a bit naff though.

It doesn't really because while it's unsavory that isn't cheating. It might be bullying or griefing or whatever but it's not cheating.

I'm not going to attempt to attach any kind of morality to the rules but if you are in combat and you log you cheated regardless of the reason.

If you switch modes because you feel you can't get away before leaving the station, or log out and go make a brew or your dinner and come back later then that isn't cheating.

In the instance above you can report the behaviour to support and they will undo the damage done to you and your ship and credit balance so you don't lose anything and report the player in the same stroke without having to cheat.

 

[babelfisch]

It doesn't really because while it's unsavory that isn't cheating. It might be bullying or griefing or whatever but it's not cheating.

I'm not going to attempt to attach any kind of morality to the rules but if you are in combat and you log you cheated regardless of the reason.

If you switch modes because you feel you can't get away before leaving the station, or log out and go make a brew or your dinner and come back later then that isn't cheating.

In the instance above you can report the behaviour to support and they will undo the damage done to you and your ship and credit balance so you don't lose anything and report the player in the same stroke without having to cheat.

He said "destroying me using an exploit" which is cheating according to those who care about combat logging.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

I'm not sure what criteria they will or do use, but I assume it will have some sort of logic (hopefully) to determining combat logs vs. crashes. One problem I've had for quite some time now is my NVidia driver crashing randomly. For some reason ED (The *ONLY* program I have this issue with) seems to dislike my GPU being overclocked. I can hear the game in the background, I get the message "driver successfully recovered".. but no ED window. My only option is to kill the task. So I'm guess I'm combat logging depending on whether or not I happen to be in combat at that moment

There is also still the problem with combat zones crashing frequently. I was in a CZ with my Corvette since about an hour. I had full shields and suddenly i got a freeze. Only way was killing the task i hope they don't ban me for such reasons

 

[GluttonyFang]

That's what I was talking about. When you artificially create a problem, it's entirely your own fault not the people who ignore you when you moan about it.

When it's used to prove that there is a failure in following procedures, it's not time wasting, it's eye opening.

 

[babelfisch]

When it's used to prove that there is a failure in following procedures, it's not time wasting, it's eye opening.

Only if there really is a failure in following procedures...

 

[GluttonyFang]

In my experience, combat logging is rarely the problem, it's the mindless, pointless (vindictive) destruction that is! And if FD are now penalising one of these, while ignoring the other (the actual cause)? *sigh!*

Try pirating, I'm sure your experience will change.

And yes, C&P needs to come and needs to come fast.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

He said "destroying me using an exploit" which is cheating according to those who care about combat logging.

Then it's just a difference in opinion I don't agree with cheating no matter the situation, even if I'm fighting a god mode CMDR in a sidey who is maiming my vette it won't make me log.

I'm not here to convince you that you shouldn't, if you want to log away but I will object to any rationale for doing so because I don't hold the same view, no harm no foul

 

[Vorxian]

In the instance above you can report the behaviour to support and they will undo the damage done to you and your ship and credit balance so you don't lose anything and report the player in the same stroke without having to cheat.

See, I'm not convinced they would. I'd like to imagine someone from support will simply throw some credits for the full loss in the coffer, but, it would probably be an inconclusively drawn out campaign.

What happens then is that your real life time is used to make some kind of case / plea to FDEV in real life, so you can get some virtual in game credits back. That in effect draws the problem out of ELITE into my real world, therefore is an unacceptable consequence to me, as the ingame victim.

The perpetrator carries on regardless, and utterly unaware of the actual consequence on me.

Given that scenario, rightly or wrongly, pulling the plug is the only option to stop all that nonsense happening.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Only if there really is a failure in following procedures...

And there indeed was, as Zac stated himself.

 

[StiTch]

Try pirating, I'm sure your experience will change.

And yes, C&P needs to come and needs to come fast.

This ^

The "you're stopping me play how I want" crowd are often quick to forget their own mantra in practice.

 

[babelfisch]

Then it's just a difference in opinion I don't agree with cheating no matter the situation, even if I'm fighting a god mode CMDR in a sidey who is maiming my vette it won't make me log.

I'm not here to convince you that you shouldn't, if you want to log away but I will object to any rationale for doing so because I don't hold the same view, no harm no foul

Never said that I am combat logging. Just that I don't care

Also I am still waiting for an answer to the post on the other page, thought it would be a good discussion...

- - - Updated - - -

And there indeed was, as Zac stated himself.

What else could he do?

 

[GluttonyFang]

What else could he do?

I'm just going to let your reply sit there and hope you realize how silly this conversation has been.

*Crosses fingers*

 

[IndigoWyrd]

This continues to not be an issue for me. I don't care what anyone else does.
I have no interest in piracy, no interest in PvP, no interest in their problems.

I'm very seldom in Open because I have no desire to subject myself to the subset of people who are determined to inflict themselves on everyone they happen upon, for whatever reason.

 

[Vorxian]

I'm just going to let your reply sit there and hope you realize how silly this conversation has been.

*Crosses fingers*

... but it is still light entertainment for this lovely Tuesday lunch time (or morning, for our US friends)

PS, where's Chuckles? I miss her!

 

[Stigbob]

When it's used to prove that there is a failure in following procedures, it's not time wasting, it's eye opening.

Ah, but SDC also regard logging out via the menu as an exploit report it and encourage others to do the same, this is a waste of FD supports time. They also posted that by doing this they would force FD to fix combat logging as they were costing them money by making so many reports (not joking check the linked thread).

The only real eye opener is that after doing this they were surprised to be ignored.

 

[two quiet suns]

Interesting to see if I get a notice for unexpected disconnects as even though I have 200mbit broadband and a decent pc I get disconnected ALL THE TIME! Has been even worse since update just crashing to a black screen while fighting in war zones constantly!!

I play 99% Mobius though so no 'Combat Log' but how can they tell I'm not logging on NPC's?

p.s. SDC = sad trumpet

 

[DaveB]

There's lots of reasons why the servers might see a client suddenly "go away" and CL is only one of them. However, there are other ways to check on what actually happened. If neither the OS nor the game actually crash (or in the case of a cheating gamer get their process killed) then that just blows you back to the main menu. That's trackable by the client and would sensibly involve a little more benefit of doubt on FDs part when investigating a suspicion of CL-ing. In a furball with other players THEIR client can monitor ships that vanish from the instance when taking near-fatal damage and FD can build up a good view of a trend. Dodgy net service (something I'm dealing with myself at the moment) leading to dropouts is something that will correlate to ALL high-traffic actions in the game, not just combat, and that will be easily visible from a rudimentary automatic analysis of the data available for FD to collect if they are so inclined. (if disconnection correlates with net traffic in general, not specifically to combat situations, it's probably not an intentional CL-er)

There's a lot that FD could be doing in this regard but I don't expect them to tell us what and how because why give the cheats a heads-up of precisely how FD are trying to detect them?

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating, when CL-ers start getting sanctioned and do you really expect them to stand up on the 'net and announce that they got swatted for cheating if they actually were? All we'll see is those claiming to be victims of "false positives" and a proportion of them will be being a little economical with the truth too.

Fewer pilots combat-logging will be the only sign we can reasonably expect to see if FD do address this effectively and even then we won't see enough raw stats out of FD to ever have more than player anecdotes.

There's just too much info that FD either can't, won't or shouldn't show us for us ever to be really sure.