Combat Zone - Decrease the ship rebuy cost

[mossfoot]

Anyway, one more time, if you believe reducing the insurance cost at CZs (and I am only talking about CZ)would impact the game, please clarify and let us know your points?
To me I still believe it would bring more cmdrs to do CZs in open play instead of solo, which would be great for the community goals.

It sounds more like just trying to arrange an arena combat zone to me personally. What's the in-game logic here? Factions subsidize rebuy costs?

Honestly I don't think it would encourage anyone to fight to the death - there's still the inconvenience of getting back in your ship and flying back to the CZ. As I mentioned earlier, a number of people who jump out are doing so so they can jump back in via the shield/supercruise exploit. I don't see lowering insurance cost fixing that.

What you have to ask yourself is how gameplay will change when that exploit is fixed? Once those guys jump out, having to wait for their shields to recharge before they can go back in (and they can't even see on their screen if the HUD if the shields are recharged yet) maybe they'd be more likely to stay in the fight and run in real space till they charge, or be willing to risk some hull damage, etc...

It might be fixing that exploit will do more for CZs than cheaper re-buys.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

It sounds more like just trying to arrange an arena combat zone to me personally. What's the in-game logic here?

Well yes, to me, CZ is nothing else than an arena...the only mechanic is for one side to get more kills than the other one, and make it to the station to cash in. No defense lines to break, no station to board, no flag to catch (lol?). Just a bunch of ships who decide to meet in space for a pew pew festival.

Anyway, the suggestion is there, arguments from both sides have been told, I am glad to agree to disagree.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

I think you are getting wrong the reason why I would like to see lower insurance cost at CZ.
I do always keep enough money at least for 3 rebuy costs. But once you claim insurance 2 times, you are done and need to go killing NPCs at RESs or trade for a few/some hours.

This is your choice. You can easily choose a ship that is cheaper, and claim insurance two hundred times before you are done. I've said this a hundred times: You need to factor in the worth of your ship when assessing your potential and longevity.

I would like to play CZ like we play FPS: fight until the end and not flee as soon as you meet bigger than you or get outnumbered.

Well, that's not how CZs work. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a simulated arena mode where you can mindlessly pvp or something, but that should be something else entirely. Your version of CZs would be essentially a free and riskless method to grind credits and rep.

I did do CZ in open play in a Viper (even an Eagle once), but what is the point of shooting some NPCs but flee as soon as you get attacked by commanders flying Vultures (can't cut through their shield), Clipper/Python/FDL (they can basically one shot you), or face a wing (I wish my friends play ED but they don't, and they are a lot of lone wolf players out there)?

I see one of two things happening here. Either these players are taking a bigger risk than you (they are staking all or most of their capital when they take their ship out), or they are simply a higher level than you (their insurance is pennies compared to their assets and income). I see absolutely nothing wrong here.

It doesn't matter how many times you can afford to lose it.

No matter what, you have to grind that cost back, and it's a nontrivial amount of time unless you're flying something less than a Vulture.

Hello.
High level players make back the insurance of four or five vultures an hour. They have hundreds upon hundreds of vultures/clippers/pythons/anacondas worth of insurance. Their fun is worth the time loss on death.
Even not-high level players who take vultures to CZs find enjoyment despite the risks.

Argue all you like about how people have "no appreciation for the worth of their ship", but if you want to play Economic Simulator, go to Eve. Me? I'm here to have fun, and grinding the cost of my insurance premium 10X over just so I can PvP in something better than a Viper is not fun.

Funny you say that when one of the most fundamental mechanics of ED is an economic simulator.
Might I suggest another game for you that might have what you're looking for? I heard people are really enjoying a new call of duty game or something.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

They have hundreds upon hundreds of vultures/clippers/pythons/anacondas worth of insurance. Their fun is worth the time loss on death.

So you talk about players who can dedicate hundreds of hours of their time bounty farming mindless NPCs at the RESs or endlessly trading? I do not believe these represent the majority of players, while my suggestion is to encourage more players participating in open play at CZs, especially during CGs.

 

[Quisquis]

So you talk about players who can dedicate hundreds of hours of their time bounty farming mindless NPCs at the RESs or endlessly trading? I do not believe these represent the majority of players, while my suggestion is to encourage more players participating in open play at CZs, especially during CGs.

No, according to him, they have a magic money maker button that lets them make all that money in an hour...

and apparently one station paying 10% more than galactic average is deep economic simulation, and I belong in Call of Duty for wanting to have fun in PvP instead of avoiding it because of the cost.

 

[Ziljan]

They already stated that 1.3 would decrease the rebuy cost if you align with factions. For combat oriented factions it makes sense that your risk for entering a CZ on their behalf would be a subsidized risk.

i think an even more interesting option would be if they offered you a stock cheap fighter (an eagle or viper) with zero rebuy cost at the station where you sign up for the CZ. This would allow new players to experience CZs without risking their own ships. This would be called "enlisting" in their army, and would result in pay just for participating regardless of kills, but the combat bond rate would cut in half. If you bring your own ship, you'd sign on as a "mercenary" and get regular combats full bonds because you are risking your own private ship.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

I'm depressed that so many people here who don't want to do work want to have as much fun as the people who do.

This is a game where if you want the big toys you are going to have to work for it. There's plenty of fun to be had with smaller toys, for those that don't want to work as much.
If you want something more arcadey, try a very arcadey space. This is not it. ED is a pretty realized game of risk and loss.

How do they make the millions and millions of credits? Beats me, space trucking probably, I don't have hundreds of hours to devote to the game to really iron that out. So I fly a viper to CZs and a low rate vulture elsewhere. Because that's the fun I get to have proportional to the effort I put into the game.

This isn't maplestory-esque kids game, especially at a CZ. A CZ is where the big kids play. I don't mean big ships, I mean adults. You're not supported when things get tough. You're not let off easy when you screw up. You aren't coddled when you die. You are punished. This is a pretty adult concept that requires an aspect of growing up to enjoy. If you can't do that, well, try something that is more supportive, easy, and forgiving.

 

[Quisquis]

I'm depressed that so many people here who don't want to do work want to have as much fun as the people who do.

This is a game where if you want the big toys you are going to have to work for it. There's plenty of fun to be had with smaller toys, for those that don't want to work as much.
If you want something more arcadey, try a very arcadey space. This is not it. ED is a pretty realized game of risk and loss.

How do they make the millions and millions of credits? Beats me, space trucking probably, I don't have hundreds of hours to devote to the game to really iron that out. So I fly a viper to CZs and a low rate vulture elsewhere. Because that's the fun I get to have proportional to the effort I put into the game.

This isn't maplestory-esque kids game, especially at a CZ. A CZ is where the big kids play. I don't mean big ships, I mean adults. You're not supported when things get tough. You're not let off easy when you screw up. You aren't coddled when you die. You are punished. This is a pretty adult concept that requires an aspect of growing up to enjoy. If you can't do that, well, try something that is more supportive, easy, and forgiving.

I'm busy doing real life work... I don't want to do it in my video games.

*ok, I'm home from work... should I sit in front of a computer screen looking at trading spreadsheets for hours, or should I do something else?*

Sorry, but I'll do something else; I've looked at spreadsheets enough for the day already.

You're welcome to keep insulting people who want something different out of the game than you apparently do (by suggesting they're not adults or are too weak...), but FD isn't selling a lifestyle choice here, they're selling a video game. I don't think it's called "Grind Credits in Space: Dangerous".

 

[Iskariot]

A lower rebuy cost would encourage more people to do CZ in open mode.

I am not sure whether I agree with this, but there could be a rationale behind such a mechanism for CZ only:
Perhaps when your ship gets destroyed in a CZ the faction you fight for could pay 25% of your rebuy cost.

 

[deathmagnet]

My stance will never change. The insurance system is fine. If you can't afford to rebuy it don't fly it. Instead of asking the devs to change the game, change the way you play it. Better prepared.

 

[Quisquis]

My stance will never change. The insurance system is fine. If you can't afford to rebuy it don't fly it. Instead of asking the devs to change the game, change the way you play it. Better prepared.

I can afford to rebuy it just fine... I can't afford to rebuy it 10X over, and IRL, the insurance wouldn't cover me if I was going and getting blown up in combat zones anyways.

Insurance = accidents.

Going to combat zones is not what insurance is for anyways, so it makes perfect sense to have a different mechanism for ship replacement there.


"Hello, insurance company? I just took all 10 of my cars and got them destroyed in a destruction derby. Pls fix, thx."

 

[Aleksej]

I love PvP (which is to me the only real challenge in the game at the moment) and if my opponent wins and wishes to see me explode, I'd love to [EDIT: fight to the end].
However at a Combat Zone in open play, especially during a Community Goal, except if one is part of a good wing, at some point one will always end up being outnumbered / meeting a bigger bird than his.
When this happens to me (and it may happen within a few minutes after dropping at the CZ) and I am getting beat, I do like everybody else and flee/jump to a nearby system.

This is boring to me (can you imagine that NPCs would do the same by the way?) since I really would like to [EDIT: fight to the end], and see my opponents [EDIT: fight to the end], like it happens at war...but losing the rebuy cost of my ship (about 2 millions now) is just too high.
I would love to see the rebuy cost cut at least by half.

Some may argue that a high rebuy cost forces the losers to retreat/leave, letting the other commanders beat the remaining commanders / NPCs, leading to effectively increase the influence of their faction.
But the truth is that most commanders do CZ in solo, where there is barely no risk to lose, making the efforts of other commanders, playing in open, worthless.
A lower rebuy cost would encourage more people to do CZ in open mode.

I totally do not agree with that. Losing the ship should be costly, otherwise no one is going to be bothered with being careful. If you see that opposition is stronger than you - you should get away and not think that being destroyed is not that bad. Ship repair costs are very low, however, insurance should stay as it is .

The changes are planned though as far as I know and your combat rank should affect the insurance costs.

However, what should be actually changed are the rewards for destroying ships in conflict zones. These are too low now, especially comparing to bounty rewards in RES. I think increasing the rewards for destroying ships in conflict zones should solve the issue.

 

[deathmagnet]

I can afford to rebuy it just fine... I can't afford to rebuy it 10X over, and IRL, the insurance wouldn't cover me if I was going and getting blown up in combat zones anyways.

Insurance = accidents.

Going to combat zones is not what insurance is for anyways, so it makes perfect sense to have a different mechanism for ship replacement there.


"Hello, insurance company? I just took all 10 of my cars and got them destroyed in a destruction derby. Pls fix, thx."

Your right. Would it be better if you had no insurance what-so-ever for going into a CZ?

"Hello Mr. Insurance company. I took my ship into a war zone on purpose and it got blown up. Will you replace it?"

"You purposely took your ship into an area that you knew had a high risk of being destroyed and want us to replace it?"

"Yes."

"You're crazy. Claim Denied."

I am pretty sure there is no insurance on War Planes and War Ships.

 

[Quisquis]

Your right. Would it be better if you had no insurance what-so-ever for going into a CZ?

"Hello Mr. Insurance company. I took my ship into a war zone on purpose and it got blown up. Will you replace it?"

"You purposely took your ship into an area that you knew had a high risk of being destroyed and want us to replace it?"

"Yes."

"You're crazy. Claim Denied."

I am pretty sure there is no insurance on War Planes and War Ships.

I think you're right...

What there is instead is a government or group funding the equipment that the pilots use.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Anyway, it seems indeed that Power Play is going to bring some change about the way ship (and most likely cargo) loss is covered.
Once it's there, please feel free to type a few posts suggesting to go back to the old way...