Completely dissuaded at combat

[Mozpow]

I haven't played ED in a few years but decided to get back in. I grinded for the Clipper and Cutter and working towards my Fed rank but during my grind ( and still presently), I absolutely avoid all types of combat as it's just not fun (to me). What brought this on? Maybe something happened while I was away, but the NPCs seem a lot more proficient and lethal than when I first started playing back when the game was released.

For instance, when I first returned, I had used a Vulture to take down Anacondas to make my money. When I tried to do the same thing again after all these years, I was taken out quickly. Tried again, same result. I started doubting my combat abilities. I retook the combat training scenarios and did fine so I have no idea what the hell is happening unless the combat training needs to be updated.

I had a Krait MKII fully kitted for combat, I needed a medium sized ship for my Empire rank grinding and decided to go to a medium conflict zone to destroy 15 ships for some rep. After I entered the zone and engaged while helping an ally, I heard "hull integrity compromised", I saw my shields were still up buy my hull was taking damage, then my shields died, I died, all in less than 10 seconds, how the hell can an NPC do that much damage to me? I tried again and was immediately dispatched again so I stayed away from combat until I got my Cutter.

I outfitted my Cutter not as a combat ship, but as something that can take at least one ship if I get indicted while traveling, which happened while grinding for my Fed rank, but this FDL was able to make quick work of me in my Cutter which had (5) A rated shield boosters, 8A shield generator with a reinforced hull, my 4 pulse lasers and huge Plasma Launcher could do nothing to bring the FDL's shields down. Tried to escape but was still killed.

Are these NPCs designed to be significantly more difficult than before? I keep hearing about engineers, are NPCs able to access "engineered" weapons as well? I haven't looked into engineering because it just seems like a very daunting task, moreso than rank grinding and I get demotivated thinking about it, do they really make that much of a difference? Feels like it's game breaking if they do, especially to players who are coming into the fold, new or old. Now anytime there's a combat engagement, I leave in my Cutter, 2 pips in my sys and the rest to engines and leave, I'm too afraid of combat and just not confident because the curve seems a lot more steep than before.

 

[Cmdr Jontruckosaurus]

A few years back, an update included an improvement in NPC combat. They got a bit smarter but "improvement" is a relative term.

If you use FA off to get back on target more quickly, you will negate that improvement.

 

[CMDR Nathan Atterlein]

Did you manage your pips correctly? Having 4 pips on sys drastically improve shield endurance. Also, to answer your question, NPCs do have engineered ships in some cases, like in czs, wing targets, ATR.

 

[Bigmaec]

Combat zone NPCs are about the hardest you can engage nowadays.
They feature engineered hulls, shields and weapons, often with phasing.
And when Spec Ops enter the area, it's upped one more notch.
You need to be good or fly an engineered ship yourself.

 

[-VR- pipestein]

Yes, NPC's have access to engineered modules. They got a bump in combat effectiveness some time ago now. On top of that the FDL is a class A combat ship that is intended to be able to screw your day up. That being said, avoiding NPC pirates is pretty easy if you know how. If you get interdicted submit to it. the non emergency drive cool down is a lot shorter than it is if you fail at avoiding interdiction. Once you drop out of super cruise start zig zagging and jump back into SC once the cool down is complete this is known as High Waking. a search on the forums will provide a far better description than I can.

The engineer grind is not actually that horrible and once you open an engineer you can max them out to rank 5 pretty quickly, often in a matter of minutes. In three weeks of non intensive play you can get 75% of the engineers done to max rank without really trying all that hard. There are several good guides online for how to do so.

 

[Mozpow]

Thanks all for the replies, and yikes, engineered NPCs are pretty intimidating. Once I'm done with my rank grinding, I'll look towards doing the engineering part but I'm just too intimidated to engage in combat.

 

[Mozpow]

Combat zone NPCs are about the hardest you can engage nowadays.
They feature engineered hulls, shields and weapons, often with phasing.
And when Spec Ops enter the area, it's upped one more notch.
You need to be good or fly an engineered ship yourself.

I think this would explain why my Krait MKII was taken out like an aluminum can.

 

[Mozpow]

Yes, NPC's have access to engineered modules. They got a bump in combat effectiveness some time ago now. On top of that the FDL is a class A combat ship that is intended to be able to screw your day up. That being said, avoiding NPC pirates is pretty easy if you know how. If you get interdicted submit to it. the non emergency drive cool down is a lot shorter than it is if you fail at avoiding interdiction. Once you drop out of super cruise start zig zagging and jump back into SC once the cool down is complete this is known as High Waking. a search on the forums will provide a far better description than I can.

The engineer grind is not actually that horrible and once you open an engineer you can max them out to rank 5 pretty quickly, often in a matter of minutes. In three weeks of non intensive play you can get 75% of the engineers done to max rank without really trying all that hard. There are several good guides online for how to do so.

Thanks for this tip, my Cutter is fast with strong enough shields and can get me out of a problem ship's way but approaching them is out of the question now. I've never submitted to an interdiction before, do I just hit my frameshift drive hotkey (J) to submit?

 

[-VR- pipestein]

Thanks for this tip, my Cutter is fast with strong enough shields and can get me out of a problem ship's way but approaching them is out of the question now. I've never submitted to an interdiction before, do I just hit my frameshift drive hotkey (J) to submit?

Just drop your speed to zero and fly in a straight line, alternatively drop your speed to zero and hit j to drop out. the key is dropping your speed. as long as you are slowed down you will not end up with an emergency cooldown timer on your FSD. (Frame Shift Drive)

 

[NCFCpaul]

I was also quite adverse to combat, I did lots of exploration and trade. Sometime ago there was a mini-war going on in Colonia where I happened to be. I was bored so went along for a bit of fun and just to give it a go. It was absolutely excellent and the members of the local group welcomed me into their club, I am now a proud member of Loren's Legion.

My advice would be that combat can be an excellent part of Elite. Getting into it is quite easy and I know there are a bunch of groups who welcome inexperienced people. It's not all ganking and people being crappy to each each other. I do tend to lose more than I win, but it's great fun and nowhere near as hard as it can be made out to be.

If you did fancy some fun but with a stop at 20% hull look me up in game, same tag as here, I'd be happy to help

 

[Ian Skippy]

NPCs have improved AI and at high ranks gain some modified modules. Still, you should never lose to a single interdicting NPC. That suggests your combat skills are simply sub-par. If you haven't played in years and only have faded experience with poor-AI NPCs of old that is logical. Spend an hour or two solidly practicing and see how it goes then.

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

I dunno if this is right because I'm not oldskool but the impression I get from you and also elsewhere is that in the old days, outflying your enemy was more of a thing. Now, the AI uses the engine kill mechanics to make that impossible.

These days it's more important to manage pips well and keep your guns dishing it out on the enemy, because at the higher NPC ranks, you can't keep their guns off you. At least I can't.

Get engineered hull, get multicannons. On that Cutter you want an engineered shield, and you should be pretty alright. I personally advise building around one of the big four of combat weapons aka rails, particle accelerator, frag cannon, or packhound missile. Maybe on the Cutter though you want some turreted setup. I don't really have much experience with turreted weapons so I don't know what's good there.

It is quite unfortunate that building ships, and changing and engineering weapons takes so much minutiae and effort and time, doing things that aren't the combat you're trying to get better at but there it is. Also, don't waste time on junk weapons. Builds based around lasers (but beams are nice for shield busting and pulses on smaller ships with thermal and pd constraint), cannons, mines or regular missiles in my experience are just junk.

Also, if you don't want to engineer, then you can't really do CZ. You maybe can do Light CZ. Stick to ring resource zones and mission spawns. In med sec and high sec systems, security will help.

 

[Linnunrata]

Thanks all for the replies, and yikes, engineered NPCs are pretty intimidating. Once I'm done with my rank grinding, I'll look towards doing the engineering part but I'm just too intimidated to engage in combat.

I really recommend engineering as soon as possible. 1-2 grade engineering at basic engineers doesn't take significant amount of materials or unlocking and really gives a boost from the stock.

 

[CMDR X]

Yes. NPCs have engineered ships. You will need it also.
X.

 

[Jmanis]

Combat zone NPCs are about the hardest you can engage nowadays.
They feature engineered hulls, shields and weapons, often with phasing.
And when Spec Ops enter the area, it's upped one more notch.
You need to be good or fly an engineered ship yourself.

And yet, they're still potatoes compared to @Sarah Jane Avory 's first pass that everyone complained about. I'll admit i copped a half-dozen rebuys when they first came out, but after learning their tactics, they were great.

I mean, sure, these are tougher, but not that tough.

 

[Jmanis]

Yes. NPCs have engineered ships. You will need it also.
X.

Specifically, Spec Ops, Wing Assassination targets + escorts, and Threat 6/7 Pirate Activity beacons. Everything else is just (Decent) vanilla fits AFAIK.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

They reworked their equipment list and NPC load up on defensive modules. Turns your stuff into peashooters when not engineered.

 

[Moose2342]

Thanks all for the replies, and yikes, engineered NPCs are pretty intimidating. Once I'm done with my rank grinding, I'll look towards doing the engineering part but I'm just too intimidated to engage in combat.

I would like to add: They are also more fun. I have a great time fighting the engineered NPCs and don't like the regular ones at all. They are like fish in a barrel when you are in an engineered ship yourself.

However, CZ are not the best place to do that IMHO. You will often find yourself swamped and just make it out alive. What I love are the "Pirate Activity Deteced" instances. They are often numerous in systems in Civil Unrest state. They feature all kinds of engineered ships that won't attack you until you attack them. You can just go there, pick any you's like to sparr with and have a go, while the others will ignore the fighting. It's always 1v1 unless you pick a wing. After you're done, you just pick the next one. Kinda like HAZ Res but with engineered ships. Highly recommended!

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

And yet, they're still potatoes compared to @Sarah Jane Avory 's first pass that everyone complained about. I'll admit i copped a half-dozen rebuys when they first came out, but after learning their tactics, they were great.

I mean, sure, these are tougher, but not that tough.

It was a bug. Everyone knows it. Now you know too.

 

[Jmanis]

It was a bug. Everyone knows it. Now you know too.

It really wasn't... unless you're referring to the bug that made some NPC engineered mods have zero cooldown (resulting in near-instant kills)... then yes, that was a bug.

Their AI definitely wasn't, and was handily overcome if you knew what you were doing. It was the cold change between instant PP-killing an Anaconda using a Viper and the harder AI that caught people out.