Content Recap - Beyond - Chapter Four Livestream - Exploration and the Codex

[Thatchinho]

But...exploration is about going to places and finding things. What this new system gives us is a method of cartography, not really exploration.

A lot of it was about finding things.

- FSS was indicating whether there were things to find on bodies
- Probes help locate those things on the bodies

And then from there you go to them on the surface to actually fully find them.

That was just on the scanning front.

There's then also the Codex, with the Regions and the Rumoured/Reported/Discovered mechanism.

All of that's about finding things.

 

[Cobra1984]

This is a lot more like it.

The update goes much deeper than a mere scanner mechanic, and means players can actually chart and log discoveries for the playerbase.

This is *actual* exploration and it adds some depth and persistence.

Good call on infinite probes.

 

[Mephane]

Suggestion: Let us use the new discovery scanner and the mapping probes in normal flight, and not just supercruise. Especially very close to smaller bodies, even at minimum supercruise speed you need regular adjustments to your course just to not get too close or veer off too far to the side. Also, in supercruise you are vulnerable to interdiction and consume much more fuel than in normal flight. And finally, it just feels more natural to actually stop when scanning the system, and you could then for example also do it from the surface of a planet.

 

[cmdr underhill]

Suggestion: Let us use the new discovery scanner and the mapping probes in normal flight, and not just supercruise. Especially very close to smaller bodies, even at minimum supercruise speed you need regular adjustments to your course just to not get too close or veer off too far to the side. Also, in supercruise you are vulnerable to interdiction and consume much more fuel than in normal flight. And finally, it just feels more natural to actually stop when scanning the system, and you could then for example also do it from the surface of a planet.

I agree with the use of discovery and new scanner mechanic in normal space. I may be quite wrong, but doesn't the honk currently work from normal space?

As for the surface mapping probes, I'm not so sure that's viable. The probes have to go via super/orbital cruise for time consistency and keeping us nitpicky star trek style geeks happy

 

[Cosmo]

It is a 3D representation of the system with wireframe planets

Why does the Orrery only have wireframe planets? Please add that we can see planet details after discovering it.

 

[Thatchinho]

Very happy but also a bit disappointed that no gameplay has been added on planets surface for exploration....

I still dream of the day we're gonna have some reason to land on a planet rather than doing everything from its orbit...and making probes unlimited this tiny chance faded off...

What kind of thing are you thinking about when you're talking about reasons to land on a planets surface? (There's been reasons to land on a planet's surface for a long long time, but perhaps you're meaning something very specific.)

Also, what do you mean with regard to the probes? (Just to throw out an illustrative example for the purpose of clarification, if your map a planet and find a biological site (or sites) are you saying you aren't going to go to the surface to find out what they actually are?)

 

[Baroness Galaxy]

First off, congratulations Frontier ! You gave explorers real hope again. Also, I'm part of the DW2 organisation team and our minds are very much aligned to making this a big success. Boiling with ideas already. And yes, the stream itself was presented in a very good and authentic manner, so commendations to all 3 of you !

There is something sensitive that I will have to comment on: the infinite amount of probes

Now I know you thought a lot about this, tried to find a formula with a certain amount that might work and at some point you went for a middle-ground solution by using a efficiency target. It is a smart idea in a way, but in another way it is a missed exploration opportunity. Because exploration like you now showed is awesome, but most experienced explorers that are not shy of going long distances do embrace synthesis as part of their journey: heat sinks, SRV fuel, SRV repairs, hull repair limpets, etc. And yet none of these people like grinding.

So I feel this should be re-brainstormed a bit, because there is an opportunity to include probe synthesis within the exploration experience. Keep the materials tier 1 or 2 and you have an incentive to explore planets more, since prospecting and shooting rocks is something you do at the same time as exploring ! Finding planet surface POIs is not a separate activity with your SRV, instead it is a combination of activities that form a whole. And it is not just for increasing the incentive at planet surveying and prospecting but also mining. Shooting and detonating asteroids, knowing that it will yield some cheap mats for your probes simply adds value to the experience.

So once you know collecting probe materials is part of an explorers journey as long as you keep the cap high (similar to what you did for other materials) and the cost low, then you know discarding synthesis completely for probes feels really off as it is inconsistent with other synthesis operations they do use as part of exploration. This is also why the grinding argument is biased and risks judging to quickly as it comes from a perspective of the past that does not think in the new mechanics and context of the explorers dream coming true.

 

[TheSisko]

That was great.

I hope Frontier plan to add new rumours for each region over time. If so, exploration has gotten a lot more focused. Regions will have explorers flocking to them, eager to find (or just see) the new weird thing rumoured to be (or reported to be) in that area.

Also, one small request - I think for a space game, Sectors sounds better then Regions. Small nit-pack compared to the great content shown off tonight. [up]

 

[DaggerSnake]

Very happy but also a bit disappointed that no gameplay has been added on planets surface for exploration....

I still dream of the day we're gonna have some reason to land on a planet rather than doing everything from its orbit...and making probes unlimited this tiny chance faded off...

Maybe something like the ability to upload an image when you sell your data back. So in orbit you see "Gological Feature" or "Biological Feature" you land, explore, take some photos and then you can share them. I'd love to see ingame images from explorers rather than seeing them through twitter.

 

[Alec Turner]

First off, congratulations Frontier ! You gave explorers real hope again. Also, I'm part of the DW2 organisation team and our minds are very much aligned to making this a big success. Boiling with ideas already. And yes, the stream itself was presented in a very good and authentic manner, so commendations to all 3 of you !

There is something sensitive that I will have to comment on: the infinite amount of probes

Now I know you thought a lot about this, tried to find a formula with a certain amount that might work and at some point you went for a middle-ground solution by using a efficiency target. It is a smart idea in a way, but in another way it is a missed exploration opportunity. Because exploration like you now showed is awesome, but most experienced explorers that are not shy of going long distances do embrace synthesis as part of their journey: heat sinks, SRV fuel, SRV repairs, hull repair limpets, etc. And yet none of these like grinding.

So I feel this should be re-brainstormed a bit, because there is an opportunity to include probe synthesis within the exploration experience. Keep the materials tier 1 or 2 and you have an incentive to explore planets more, since prospecting and shooting rocks is something you do at the same time as exploring ! Finding planet surface POIs is not a separate activity with your SRV, instead it is a combination of activities that form a whole. And it is not just for increasing the incentive at planet surveying and prospecting but also mining. Shooting and detonating asteroids, knowing that it will yield some cheap mats for your probes simply adds value to the experience.

So once you know collecting probe materials is part of an explorers journey as long as you keep the cap high (similar to what you did for other materials) and the cost low, then you know discarding synthesis completely for probes feels really off as it is inconsistent with other synthesis operations they do use as part of exploration. This is also why the grinding argument is biased and risks judging to quickly as it comes from a perspective of the past that does not think in the new mechanics and context of the explorers dream coming true.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the synthesis of probes required planet bound mat's ... that would exclude non-horizons players. Or at the very least, explorers out in the black without mining lasers. Problem?

 

[Daish]

Looking good so far need to test in beta to see how immersive it will be for me, but looking good so far.


We are hoping that scanners will detect everything in space, mega ships, gen ships, the works, would deem odd not too.

Also BGS shading colours for nebula will there be more added to give some extra immersion and life visuals in space, not just in nebulas and asteroid fields.???

 

[Marc_Hicks]

While in theory I tend to agree, in practice I think the new mechanic will be more fun than any eye-balling for sure.

The game is so huge, there is so much going on, I already spend more time travelling from A-B than any other activity in the game, that ground-based exploring like the current random SRV driving requires doesn't appeal to me. Neither does the current ship-based "search" mechanic with the 3 moving circles that go totally random directions.

If FD could implement a more powerful, ship-based scanner that would pinpoint stuff in a more logical and cool graphical way than the current 3-ring circus of random direction changes search mechanic, maybe.

But low-flying with eyes and spending an hour driving around a 5-10 sq KM area in a stupidly wheeled SRV (instead of skimmer tech SRV)? I don't think that sounds fun.

For sure on the current landable planets, some items would stick out like beacons and be 'insta-find'. The radiation signature of any powered structure would be easily detectable against the background on all current landable planets/moons. For life- depending on the biology and energy source and expenditure, light reflectivity, and other physics, it could be easier or harder to find. However, if hard to find, then an initial high-level scan wouldn't likely even corral them into a 10KM square zone.

Of course, there are plenty of players that seem to have the time and enjoy the time consuming discovery stuff in the game today, so your mileage may vary.

Would it *really* be an hour to search an area of less than 10 square km? Even with eyeballs only I seriously doubt that.
My view is that the size of the PoI would determine the size of the search area, but either way a decent wave scanner and/or a "SONAR" style active scanning mechanic could probably allow you to find most PoI's in under 20 minutes.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Would it *really* be an hour to search an area of less than 10 square km? Even with eyeballs only I seriously doubt that.
My view is that the size of the PoI would determine the size of the search area, but either way a decent wave scanner and/or a "SONAR" style active scanning mechanic could probably allow you to find most PoI's in under 20 minutes.

It would be terribly grindy having to use Mk.1 Eyeball, which is the reason I never even bothered to try to spend hours upon hours of my valuable life time in search of fumeroles etc.

If FDEV reverted to your idea - even for 'just' 10 square km - I wouldn't bother with that grind. It's pointless for the majority of players TBH.

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

This is looking so super cool. Thanks FD.

 

[Baroness Galaxy]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the synthesis of probes required planet bound mat's ... that would exclude non-horizons players. Or at the very least, explorers out in the black without mining lasers. Problem?

True, but I wouldn't bind the mats to prospecting only, and non-horizon players that don't have mining equipment as an explorer sounds like bad outfitting considering how mining becomes more part of exploration experience (discovering locations on the rings). So it's a niche situation that is only applicable to non-horizon players out in the black (the rest can prevent it), so I'm not sure if you should handicap the whole player-base for it, but if FD wants to solve it, they can think of how to allow finding the materials to be gathered in more generics way as well.

 

[Cervantes01]

True, but I wouldn't bind the mats to prospecting only, and non-horizon players that don't have mining equipment as an explorer sounds like bad outfitting considering how mining becomes more part of exploration experience (discovering locations on the rings). So it's a niche situation that is only applicable to non-horizon players out in the black (the rest can prevent it), so I'm not sure if you should handicap the whole player-base for it, but if FD wants to solve it, they can think of how to allow finding the materials to be gathered in more generics way as well.

Scooping random fragments in rings would be an easy way out of this.

 

[[Cancelled Consoleer] boppa_]

On the stream there seemed to be a hint that the volumetric fog effects would not be available on console. Has this been confirmed or denied?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

True, but I wouldn't bind the mats to prospecting only, and non-horizon players that don't have mining equipment as an explorer sounds like bad outfitting considering how mining becomes more part of exploration experience (discovering locations on the rings). So it's a niche situation that is only applicable to non-horizon players out in the black (the rest can prevent it), so I'm not sure if you should handicap the whole player-base for it, but if FD wants to solve it, they can think of how to allow finding the materials to be gathered in more generics way as well.

Gotta say I'm way more happy to believe the New Improved DSS module can now passively collect gas and dust from the incomplete vacuum of deep space to make probes, than having to go through the drudgery of collecting materials to synth them.

 

[Baroness Galaxy]

Gotta say I'm way more happy to believe the New Improved DSS module can now passively collect gas and dust from the incomplete vacuum of deep space to make probes, than having to go through the drudgery of collecting materials to synth them.

Sure ! Sounds great But then I'd have to see that happening e.g. going nearby a gas giant and see my probes refill. Great idea, as long as it's a visible in-game mechanic that involves the player a non-grinding, but explorer activity

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Sure ! Sounds great But then I'd have to see that happening e.g. going nearby a gas giant and see my probes refill. Great idea, as long as it's a visible in-game mechanic that involves the player a non-grinding, but explorer activity

Outer space isn't a true vacuum though - it's more of a very sparse plasma than true vacuum - just look at those particles whizz onto your shields when in supercruise and wear away at your paintjob, for example - why can't the DSS be passively collecting that stuff