Conveying this games "Story" through nothing but text is unacceptable.

[Bran Tse Mallory]

While I have a tendency not to read all of the text in game I find that various CMDR's such as Mr Ant, as already mentioned and others keep me up to date with whats going on. With the new camera system this 'story telling' method will only get better. While it's not ideal for use when playing the game it does at least help. Frontier could do a lot of things better, telling the story is one of the big things they need to improve.

Is it a place holder for a better system?

It's good to have a solution from the start and make it part of the routine development, by that I mean decide early on how your going to deliver content to the players and stick to it. Once you've got a system in place follow it. To take Elites current interaction and replace it with a more visual and vocal system would be a lot of work and a major expense too, all of which could be better spent improving other areas/delivering new features. This is why it's important to make the choice early. I have faith that Frontier will stick to their guns with what we have and allow us to tell our stories in the way we choose. After all Drew is inspired to write a novel based on CMDR's actions, the ending of which will be affected by us. Never feel left out either, the galaxies a huge place with lots of us in it. We are the hero in our own space ship but not always the one who saves the galaxy.

Here's a video that I saw today that gives a glance at the delights of letting CMDR's tell their story, their way.

[video=youtube;gIhO3F9Go60]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIhO3F9Go60[/video]

 

[Jmanis]

Suffice to say that it's not a select few. Everyone is invited. GalNet will reveal the agenda. Yes, there are technical limitations to the game and the internet - we have considered lots of ways to mitigate this. We have also considered timezones carefully. If you have suggestions, please let me know.

Suggestions:
Thread I posted: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/285963-quot-The-Hunt-quot-Mechanics
Another batch: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...9-The-Canonn?p=5320298&viewfull=1#post5320298

Not sure how I'm trying to "derail the thread" though... I'm pretty cynical at the moment for sure, but just trying to contribute to a topic about "text" being the only way to progress story.

FD said themselves here:

A Community Goal can come from anywhere and anyone but we know that groups may be more inclined to suggest them, as it can help progress their own story or lore.

... so I'm going to be a bit confused if my comments about having a CG I submitted over a year ago get accepted by FD and then "Not run" meanwhile groups like CoR and the Salome plotline get multiple events and attention from FD, somehow feel like I'm "derailing" the topic.

FD offered up the CG mechanism as a way to promote player group stories and "blaze their own trail"... I feel my points are entirely relevant to the OP by highlighting that this mechanism. Having waited almost a year to get my group's CG to go up and being told given a set of dates for it, and then have it not run, and after multiple contact attempts over the successive month for a response from FD about why it didn't run and hearing silence... well... that's pretty indicative of a very broken way of developing player stories in the game.

Frankly, it makes me and my group feel pretty "second-rate" compared to others, and yes, this makes me pretty argumentative at the moment when there appears to be events tied to realtime events.

If you still think I'm trying to derail the thread, report button is below.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I think a great job has been done by Frontier, but I sometimes feel overwhelmed with the amount of information and supposition regarding what we know and what we don't know. Although at the same time the lack of spoonfeeding all the mysteries has been a good thing.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

The docking computer is a staple of Elite and part of the original concept for ED
A game without a soundtrack? Now that would be new to me. Also, part of the original concept.
Arena...well, yeah got me there. Waste of funds, imo. Changes nothing on my opinion of other new things.

Voice acting seems like such an expensive add for so little in return. It is a staple of AAA production. Elite is not a AAA game.

You don't see voice animation problems, while I do...matter of difference in perception, I suppose. Though BioWare fixing the voice anims in their patch may suggest that there is a problem.

I don't deny there may not have been any - just nothing that stuck out to me. I will say though, post-patch, I do not care for the changes to the dialog interface - at least not visually. The previous interface was much cleaner. Now, had it looked like an old Bruce Lee film, sure, I'd have called it out as quick as anyone. But that said, good facial animation, especially in dialog, has long been the bane of gaming. It's certainly improved for sure, and will only get better as time goes on, I'm just not hyper-sensitive to the nuances of digital lip-movements as some, perhaps because I never learned to lip-read analog lips.

And while I won't disagree either, hiring on A-list voice actors could certainly be a major expense, I'm also positive a less expensive means to find good voice acting could be found quite easily - post a script and ask the community for contributions. We've had a few community ship skins, I'm positive we could get some community voices as well - and I'm positive there are some good, quality voices to be found out here, and I'm sure more than a few folk would gladly "donate" their voices. And we'd have lots of variety that way as well - so voiced dialog doesn't end up sounding like the same 4 people over and over (Traffic Control, I'm looking at you...).

 

[drew]

Suggestions:
Thread I posted: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/285963-quot-The-Hunt-quot-Mechanics
Another batch: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...9-The-Canonn?p=5320298&viewfull=1#post5320298

Not sure how I'm trying to "derail the thread" though... I'm pretty cynical at the moment for sure, but just trying to contribute to a topic about "text" being the only way to progress story.

FD said themselves here:


... so I'm going to be a bit confused if my comments about having a CG I submitted over a year ago get accepted by FD and then "Not run" meanwhile groups like CoR and the Salome plotline get multiple events and attention from FD, somehow feel like I'm "derailing" the topic.

FD offered up the CG mechanism as a way to promote player group stories and "blaze their own trail"... I feel my points are entirely relevant to the OP by highlighting that this mechanism. Having waited almost a year to get my group's CG to go up and being told given a set of dates for it, and then have it not run, and after multiple contact attempts over the successive month for a response from FD about why it didn't run and hearing silence... well... that's pretty indicative of a very broken way of developing player stories in the game.

Frankly, it makes me and my group feel pretty "second-rate" compared to others, and yes, this makes me pretty argumentative at the moment when there appears to be events tied to realtime events.

If you still think I'm trying to derail the thread, report button is below.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will take a look. I recommend a separate thread for discussions about the upcoming in-game event and/or the implementation of CGs.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Wait. There's an audio book version of Lave Revolution?

Sorry, Not that one.

Think that one is on hold for the moment.

 

[shadragon]

Last time I checked this company was named Frontier. Not Games Workshop. We have some schmuck writing a book and everyone seems to be all for it but I am just sitting here thinking how absurd it is that they can crank out a book but not a single new line of dialogue for over a year now...
In a visual medium such as video games the rule is "Show don't tell" and that is the only thing they are doing. Is telling us everything. At first it was OK since the game was in its infancy just churning out little tidbits. But here we are where Brabenbits himself actually said we have 5 major "plotlines" going on now...Hwat? And these "plots" are supposed to interest the player? These events do not affect anything at all. They are limited to articles and player imagination they just kind of happen...and we are shown absolutely nothing. Just some lines of text.

They've done a little more than just text, but of course, you conveniently and consistently ignore anything contrary to your own myopic viewpoints.

They've had ships, faster than anything we have haunt the edge of our sensors.
They've had UA morse code challenges.
They've had cryptic sound files outlining graphical maps.
They've had alien crash sites.
They've had lost outposts pop up on planets.
They've had alien compounds appear with various items and objects.
They've had clues in news outlets throughout core space and Colonia.
They've had hyperdictions by unknown alien ships.
I'm sure I'm missing some, but I've made my point. It's a slow burn, built up over years and just now coming together.

Sir David Braben, OBE, is a proven, award winning, game designer who has sold over 2.2 million copies of Elite: Dangerous. Fortunately, he does not pattern his successful games to the wishes of ignorant, insolent and unappreciative brats. Not that it would make any difference, as I'm positive you'd go "meh" to anything put in front of you, regardless of scale or medium. Miserable people, who've accomplished nothing in their own lives, like to try to tear down others who have achieved something.

Whenever I read your posts, I always imagine a flappy seagull making incoherent and cacophonous noise while simultaneously crapping over everything.

 

[Kaltern]

This thread interests me greatly.

Firstly, and this is meant in no way to disrespect Drew for the work he has done.

No in-game story should be hidden behind a paywall. Lead up, history, that sort of thing isn't so bad I suppose, but when you mix that with actual gameplay, then I will always have an issue.

Back in the day, when gaming was a lot more innocent, I remember various games having their backstory released in a book that came free with the game in question. I still remember StarGlider, and the accompanying novel which was a great read, and a good way of explaining what you were doing in the game.

There was another one too... The Dark Wheel. Now.. I can't quite remember what game that came free with....

Anyway, today, you have to buy extra books to even have an inkling of what some aspects of the game is about. That's just not on. Frontier should have commissioned Drew to write these books and they definitely should have been part of the overall package. If Drew wants to write fanfiction which has no bearing on the game, then that's up to him - but to tie a game to something he has written AND expect players to pay for it just to understand what's actually happening in game... nope, sorry.

As for Galnet? Quite apart from the fact that it frequently breaks the 4th wall, which IMO is horrific, it simply doesn't work in a means to convey the Elite galaxy. Properly written story-based updates are hidden amongst cold procedurally generated stats. I heartily recommend Cmdr Wotherspoon's audio version of the News, it's great to listen to. However, this should be in game. There should be Breaking News articles that play either when you're flying about, or when you first log in, to alert you to new stuff going on. And I would like to HEAR these articles in game, on the 'official' GalNet News channel.

We should not have to wait for out-of-game newsletters to know what's going on. We need to have this IN-GAME, where it belongs. Hell, pay Wotherspoon to do what he does to play it in game - he is virtually the Voice of Galnet as it is.

As for other means of story delivery? Not every single player needs to visit the NPC to get the mission of the hour. That's not how a single world works - and we really don't want Elite to turn into Galaxy of Warcraft do we? Let individuals find the next piece of the puzzle. After all, the moniker 'your story' applies to everyone, and if your own personal story involves being the envoy of Humanity... then that's awesome.

The galaxy is too quiet. Pirates that menacingly threaten you by text? The only voices you hear are from station control? That seriously needs to change. I'm not suggesting voiceovers for everything... but I would like to HEAR people talking to me on occasion. Hell I would supply voiceovers for free (limited stock) if it meant bringing the galaxy more to life than it is now. Everything feels sterile, dead. There is so much life in Elite, but it's very shy.

Imagination only takes you so far.

 

[znôrt]

- but to tie a game to something he has written AND expect players to pay for it just to understand what's actually happening in game... nope, sorry.

you're aware this is a game where players pay for doing *cough* 'beta testing', right?

but true enough, it's all a matter of accessibility of the story. if it were more visible in-game more players could get engaged. at present it's just meta-content and just a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of players pay any attention. i'm not in it.

 

[Kaltern]

you're aware this is a game where players pay for doing *cough* 'beta testing', right?

but true enough, it's all a matter of accessibility of the story. if it were more visible in-game more players could get engaged. at present it's just meta-content and just a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of players pay any attention. i'm not in it.

Shhh derailment

 

[RhymeRhyme]

It's Elite. It offers gameplay that Elite games offer. I'm not quite sure what people expect when coming into this game. It's not a story focused starfighter game, it's the clone of its own genre. And looking at the very dedicated people uncovering things far from the bubble, there is gameplay here, but apparently FDs approach is that you should look for it, instead of it being handed to you. I'm too lazy, so I just enjoy flying my ship in space and doing my own thing whenever it strikes my fancy.

I played Elite in 1984. I know what this game is about. But it's boring and very repetitive. In 1984, it was limited to the hardware. It's 2017 now so I expect more from a game than a bunch of repetitive gameplay elements. The entire underlying game mechanic is limited to the 3 core elements bounty hunt, trade and explore. It's not a feature, it's a pretty hardcore limitation. It's simply implemented in a way that gives FDev not much freedom. Failure by design. Even if they want to do cool stuff like chained or "cool" missions, it's hardly possible without a mega effort.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

They've done a little more than just text, but of course, you conveniently and consistently ignore anything contrary to your own myopic viewpoints.

They've had ships, faster than anything we have haunt the edge of our sensors.
They've had UA morse code challenges.
They've had cryptic sound files outlining graphical maps.
They've had alien crash sites.
They've had lost outposts pop up on planets.
They've had alien compounds appear with various items and objects.
They've had clues in news outlets throughout core space and Colonia.
They've had hyperdictions by unknown alien ships.
I'm sure I'm missing some, but I've made my point. It's a slow burn, built up over years and just now coming together.

Sir David Braben, OBE, is a proven, award winning, game designer who has sold over 2.2 million copies of Elite: Dangerous. Fortunately, he does not pattern his successful games to the wishes of ignorant, insolent and unappreciative brats. Not that it would make any difference, as I'm positive you'd go "meh" to anything put in front of you, regardless of scale or medium. Miserable people, who've accomplished nothing in their own lives, like to try to tear down others who have achieved something.

Whenever I read your posts, I always imagine a flappy seagull making incoherent and cacophonous noise while simultaneously crapping over everything.

Well, that escalted quickly....

No need for this level of discourse at all.

Sure the OP could have chosen some of his words better but stuff like this will only get ther thread locked and brings down the overall forum, imho.

 

[Noctover]

FDEV do read the forum but i get the feeling they have just started ignoring the OP because every thread is either a whinge or a request for something he wants that's kinda trivial.

Just thinking right now i can remember the following posts from mr Mobius in the last 2 months:

Complaints about:

HUD Colour
Dialogue
Sounds in witch space
Crew members dying
NPC Names
Being locked out of his ship
Having to wrestle his controls
Ship kits looking hideous, ship kits blocking hardpoints and then complaining anyway that they don't block the turrets because they don't have collision
Dead NPCs still firing at him
The "same ships" interdicting him ruining his game.

Theres more but i cant remember them all. I can however remember in the last 2-3 months at LEAST THREE different posts complaining about the dialogue.

I guess the real question is, why are you even still playing a game you A: clearly dislike and B: keep saying is only getting worse :S.

 

[Jmanis]

Thanks for the suggestions, I will take a look. I recommend a separate thread for discussions about the upcoming in-game event and/or the implementation of CGs.

Cheers,

Drew.

Why?

The OP is complaining about portrayal of story through "only text".
Others have stepped in to discuss various other mechanisms of FD portraying story, which have included discussion of CGs. I'm raising experience-based concerns about why CGs are failing to develop player-driven story.
"The Hunt" was also a different way to progress this story with roleplayed characters. I've linked the reasons why that was a bad idea. Salome is a roleplayed character, and if the advertising for it is anything to go on, she'll be a central character to the upcoming event.

All of this is relevant to discussion of how FD pushes out storyline. I'm not sure how you're thinking that needs to be in a different thread?

But going on that, let's talk a bit more about how the mechanisms FD have in place fail to develop the story. You mentioned to try and "Get involved" with the story.

I was the first person to go against the grain and claim the UA signal was actually morse, much to people's disapproval. I then went on to prove it, create the UA Alphabet, and even submitted an article as a pledge to Patreus. But you think that's the story that got told?

Likewise I was one of the main antagonists for UA bombing Jacques before it's misjump, delivering just over 300 to the station. But again, you think that's what got traction?

If this is what happens when you try to get involved with the story and *aren't* part of a big group, then frankly, why bother getting involved at all? And that's without going near the fact the Ancient Ruins Ram Tah mission only got completed because of the buggy PG/Open instancing issues associated with it.

My point remains: OP is complaining about story development being text-only. Others have suggested the various other means FD have tried to address this. I'm posting my experiences as to why those means have failed to progress the story adequately, and some pretty obvious failings to accurately account for and develop it, notwithstanding the issues they seem to have managing CGs, nor their use of RP characters.. I'm not sure why my comments aren't relevant to this thread.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

This thread interests me greatly.

Firstly, and this is meant in no way to disrespect Drew for the work he has done.

No in-game story should be hidden behind a paywall. Lead up, history, that sort of thing isn't so bad I suppose, but when you mix that with actual gameplay, then I will always have an issue.

Back in the day, when gaming was a lot more innocent, I remember various games having their backstory released in a book that came free with the game in question. I still remember StarGlider, and the accompanying novel which was a great read, and a good way of explaining what you were doing in the game.

There was another one too... The Dark Wheel. Now.. I can't quite remember what game that came free with....

Anyway, today, you have to buy extra books to even have an inkling of what some aspects of the game is about. That's just not on. Frontier should have commissioned Drew to write these books and they definitely should have been part of the overall package. If Drew wants to write fanfiction which has no bearing on the game, then that's up to him - but to tie a game to something he has written AND expect players to pay for it just to understand what's actually happening in game... nope, sorry.

As for Galnet? Quite apart from the fact that it frequently breaks the 4th wall, which IMO is horrific, it simply doesn't work in a means to convey the Elite galaxy. Properly written story-based updates are hidden amongst cold procedurally generated stats. I heartily recommend Cmdr Wotherspoon's audio version of the News, it's great to listen to. However, this should be in game. There should be Breaking News articles that play either when you're flying about, or when you first log in, to alert you to new stuff going on. And I would like to HEAR these articles in game, on the 'official' GalNet News channel.

We should not have to wait for out-of-game newsletters to know what's going on. We need to have this IN-GAME, where it belongs. Hell, pay Wotherspoon to do what he does to play it in game - he is virtually the Voice of Galnet as it is.

As for other means of story delivery? Not every single player needs to visit the NPC to get the mission of the hour. That's not how a single world works - and we really don't want Elite to turn into Galaxy of Warcraft do we? Let individuals find the next piece of the puzzle. After all, the moniker 'your story' applies to everyone, and if your own personal story involves being the envoy of Humanity... then that's awesome.

The galaxy is too quiet. Pirates that menacingly threaten you by text? The only voices you hear are from station control? That seriously needs to change. I'm not suggesting voiceovers for everything... but I would like to HEAR people talking to me on occasion. Hell I would supply voiceovers for free (limited stock) if it meant bringing the galaxy more to life than it is now. Everything feels sterile, dead. There is so much life in Elite, but it's very shy.

Imagination only takes you so far.

I wholeheartedly agree with this well written post. Thanks.

 

[Kaltern]

FDEV do read the forum but i get the feeling they have just started ignoring the OP because every thread is either a whinge or a request for something he wants that's kinda trivial.

Just thinking right now i can remember the following posts from mr Mobius in the last 2 months:

Complaints about:

HUD Colour
Dialogue
Sounds in witch space
Crew members dying
NPC Names
Being locked out of his ship
Having to wrestle his controls
Ship kits looking hideous, ship kits blocking hardpoints and then complaining anyway that they don't block the turrets because they don't have collision
Dead NPCs still firing at him
The "same ships" interdicting him ruining his game.

Theres more but i cant remember them all. I can however remember in the last 2-3 months at LEAST THREE different posts complaining about the dialogue.

I guess the real question is, why are you even still playing a game you A: clearly dislike and B: keep saying is only getting worse :S.

Because he paid for it, and wants it to improve, so giving his opinion on things he feels are broken/could be improved in the hope that someone might be listening and agree?

The real question is why does it bother you, and other people that players want to voice their opinion on a game?

Anyway, I'm gonna get into trouble for derailment as well :|

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

FDEV do read the forum but i get the feeling they have just started ignoring the OP because every thread is either a whinge or a request for something he wants that's kinda trivial.

Just thinking right now i can remember the following posts from mr Mobius in the last 2 months:

Complaints about:

HUD Colour
Dialogue
Sounds in witch space
Crew members dying
NPC Names
Being locked out of his ship
Having to wrestle his controls
Ship kits looking hideous, ship kits blocking hardpoints and then complaining anyway that they don't block the turrets because they don't have collision
Dead NPCs still firing at him
The "same ships" interdicting him ruining his game.

Theres more but i cant remember them all. I can however remember in the last 2-3 months at LEAST THREE different posts complaining about the dialogue.

I guess the real question is, why are you even still playing a game you A: clearly dislike and B: keep saying is only getting worse :S.

Why not address the issue being discussed like the rest of us, instead of attacking the OP?

If someone wants to winge online about a game they payed for, then... well... that's their prerogative. You have no more right to stop him winging as you have to stop him playing the game. If you don't like his threads, simply don't post in them and add him to your ignore list. Posts like above serve nothing.

 

[Whitehair]

Sure the OP could have chosen some of his words better

OP is deliberate in his choice of words - just look at some of his other threads!

 

[znôrt]

Imagination only takes you so far.

in the current game industry, yes. it's not much different from selling cars or hamburgers.

outside of that rotten show, there are no limits [up]

 

[Noctover]

Why not address the issue being discussed like the rest of us, instead of attacking the OP?

If someone wants to winge online about a game they payed for, then... well... that's their prerogative. You have no more right to stop him winging as you have to stop him playing the game. If you don't like his threads, simply don't post in them and add him to your ignore list. Posts like above serve nothing.

Lol dunno, why call the author a schmuck when you don't even know him? I didn't attack the OP i listed a bunch of posts hes created in the past to make a point. I didnt stop him winging, i didnt stop him playing, so pretty much nothing in your post is correct. I did however ask him why he plays a game he seems to dislike which as you said, is my prerogative to ask.