Further highlighting the issue with ED, no decent gameplay added in patches, just bolted on features.
Cosmetics: Why they need a change
- Thread starter SaliVader
- Start date
Further highlighting the issue with ED, no decent gameplay added in patches, just bolted on features.
Elite is not like a supermarket. I'd say it's closer to a nightclub, or a concert - an entirely optional service provided purely for pleasure (it has no 'real world' benefit).
You pay the entrance fee, and any extras (like souvenirs, drinks, snacks, etc...) are available and chargeable, but 100% optional. Whether you buy these optional extras or not does not prevent you from experiencing the event you originally paid for.
What you are asking Frontier to do is change their business model to the equivalent of a few free drinks on entry.
Correct?
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Please stay on-topic.
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Glad to be of assistance. Take a look here for all your needs.
It is a very healthy company, so good for them!
I still don't like the paywall for all cosmetics. It makes me cynical, envisioning that the reason exploring gets no love is because they can't monetise it.
Have to agree with OP. It seems like the lateness of delivery on the updates have made Frontier push up the importance of DLC as revenue in the interim. I would point out that compared to all other games, the DLC is extremely expensive, and unfortunately, particularly in the case of ship kits, not really up to par at all. Nearly all the skins are kind of disappointing as well for the prices.
I got an anaconda kit and refunded it immediately, it was that bad. Look at what you get in total war warhammer for the price of two ship kits.
Now with the holo me and the nameplates this problem only looks like it will get more acute. What I would really like to see are a handful of simple paintjobs (and space suit option) and a simple font for naming for free, and then a profit sharing threadless.com type of agreement to create high quality skins, kits, suits, fonts etc with the wider creative community. The community skins are much better than the in house ones imo.
Frontier continue to push their luck with unfinished content and lose goodwill via DLC and I would hate for that to be the reason player counts drop. The value proposition gets harder with each expansion and Frontier would do well to bear in mind the fact that the average spend per base will most likely drop as (if) the playerbase expands.
I got an anaconda kit and refunded it immediately, it was that bad. Look at what you get in total war warhammer for the price of two ship kits.
Now with the holo me and the nameplates this problem only looks like it will get more acute. What I would really like to see are a handful of simple paintjobs (and space suit option) and a simple font for naming for free, and then a profit sharing threadless.com type of agreement to create high quality skins, kits, suits, fonts etc with the wider creative community. The community skins are much better than the in house ones imo.
Frontier continue to push their luck with unfinished content and lose goodwill via DLC and I would hate for that to be the reason player counts drop. The value proposition gets harder with each expansion and Frontier would do well to bear in mind the fact that the average spend per base will most likely drop as (if) the playerbase expands.
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I have no issue paying a bit extra for quality content. Like the predator skin for the Cobra, or some of the early paintjobs for the beginner ships which I bought.
But the vast majority of paintjobs Frontier have put out are low effort palette swap which, although not bad per se, have no business being locked behind (not so) micro transactions. These are basic customization options which should have been freely unlockable in-game.
If Frontier offered basic free options and then a few high quality items which obviously took not just effort but also talent to create (an important distinction), even if at a higher premium, this whole thing wouldn't feel so much like milking the playerbase for money wherever they can get away with.
But the vast majority of paintjobs Frontier have put out are low effort palette swap which, although not bad per se, have no business being locked behind (not so) micro transactions. These are basic customization options which should have been freely unlockable in-game.
If Frontier offered basic free options and then a few high quality items which obviously took not just effort but also talent to create (an important distinction), even if at a higher premium, this whole thing wouldn't feel so much like milking the playerbase for money wherever they can get away with.
True, after a time cosmetic rewards will become mundane and boring just like any other. The difference is a game with 'cosmetic' (liveries, ship kits, decals, name plates, weapons effects etc.) as well as financial rewards has a lot more variety and a longer lifetime than a game with just financial rewards. Plus, 1M credits from one faction is the same as 1M credits from any other. Whereas each faction/super-power/Power etc. could each give you a unique cosmetic item.
Well, FD want to sell stuff on the store to keep the cash-flow coming, even from people with lifetime passes. And, seeing as 'pay to win' is seen as slightly more evil than Death, they're not likely to sell anything that improves or customises performance or behaviour. So, we end up with cosmetic-only customisations on the store, and no appearance-altering-upgrades in the game since they would be competing with paid content.
As I've said before, I've no problem with micro-transactions in the game; but in this case I think we're missing out on variety of mission/faction/engineering rewards because of it.
Long time Warframe player here (1030h, almost twice as much as Elite), and I have only spent around less than 20€ on it, not because I had to, but because I choose too. And it was appreciative value for money, because I only bought platinum on a 75% discount. I had a clan spanning multiple countries, we had a player who was a salesman IRL and since platinum was tradeable, he was able to milk the gullible players into paying his prices. IDK if he ever spent any money on platinum, maybe at start to give himself a push with his "store". He also told me that he spent more time trading in game than actually playing in game.
Bottom line - you don't have to pay in Warframe, which is one of the most successful F2P games, and it is not "pay to win" if you do, because the rank limits someone mentioned aren't that high actually. The rest is about skipping RNGods because they were even less merciful than Elite ones. The grind was real, still it was compelling enough that we continued to play it and throw money at developers on occasions. And if you think you grind in Elite... Well, Warframe prepared me good for that with its 0.6% chance of something being dropped by RNGods
And somehow I hear they continue to push big updates and keep on the servers.
Bottom line - you don't have to pay in Warframe, which is one of the most successful F2P games, and it is not "pay to win" if you do, because the rank limits someone mentioned aren't that high actually. The rest is about skipping RNGods because they were even less merciful than Elite ones. The grind was real, still it was compelling enough that we continued to play it and throw money at developers on occasions. And if you think you grind in Elite... Well, Warframe prepared me good for that with its 0.6% chance of something being dropped by RNGods
And somehow I hear they continue to push big updates and keep on the servers.
Good post. Many good points but I especially agree with this one. It's unfortunate that the various paint jobs, ship kits, etc, are not integrated into the game. Imagine if every shipyard you went to only had X number of ships of each type "in stock" and they came with a specific paint job already applied? Then when you are blown up and do a "re-buy," it gives you a new ship which is pulled from the "available stock" at whichever station you respawn at. Depending on where you are, you'd potentially end up with a different paintjob, and it would add a visual reminder of your own personal journey. Imagine that different types of paintjobs were more likely to be available in different areas of the galaxy, and were subject to supply and demand mechanics as players bought them. So in Imperial space you're more likely to find ships for sale which have white or plain color schemes, maybe anarchy systems are more likely to have a range of paintjobs but it's much more random, and a lot of ships come with random insignias on them because they're stolen, etc. You could do similar things with ship kits as well, and tie all of it to the BGS. You might get a ship with a color scheme you really like, and then get blown up, and go on a little self-imposed "quest" to find another one like it. OR you could go to the Frontier Store and pay to have the exact paintjob you want. All of this would add a sense of meaning and ownership to paint jobs, and would make the Frontier Store purchases *more* attractive.
The problem with most of the cosmetics stuff right now is that it is meaningless. If cosmetics tied back into the game in some way–not by having cosmetics affect the game progression, but by having cosmetics *be* part of the game progression–it would imbue the items in the store with a greater significance and make those purchases more attractive.
Yes, basic color swaps should have been free with quality skins coming at a premium price. Give the people a taste, then give them the option to get much better at a reasonable price.
It's a proven model. Would they make more money than they're making right now is anyone's guess, though.
It's a proven model. Would they make more money than they're making right now is anyone's guess, though.
This has been an interesting and good thread. However, to the OP I'll say this: this argument is brought up every week in Blizzard forums. World of Warcraft unique pets and mounts are sold in their shop for more than ship skins here are sold. But business is good, so Blizzard doesn't comment.
Don't get your hopes up. If FDev comments, then you won a victory even if the comment is "We'll pass"...but I would expect more silence.
Don't get your hopes up. If FDev comments, then you won a victory even if the comment is "We'll pass"...but I would expect more silence.
If you are look for a F2P game that did it wrong look no farther than the War Z (re-branded to Infestation Survivor Stories and later followed by Romero's Aftermath). The game started premium (pay to access game) with some cosmetics purchasable via the in-game shop. It later went F2P with premium membership options to subscribe too or buy for a duration AND added purchasable weapons/items that were OP as all hell (ie. the M107 that could 1 shot at any range with 0 bullet drop).
Just wanted to put that out there.
Just wanted to put that out there.
A comment from Fdev would be fantastic, but I don't expect it. The intention of my post was to inform people, and hopefully change the minds of some. I do know Fdev reads the forums though so I'm 100% sure they've seen this.
It would be nice to have a few exclusive paint jobs behind hard to do things. Like triple elite, max superpower rank....stuff like that. Just to give a sense of achievement and to show everyone you have done this thing. As for buying from the shop I don't realy mind. As i dont have to if i done want to. I agree with the OP in the fact that if new players could change the basic colour of there ships then this would lead to more sales in the shop as players would want to look differant and move away from these colours. At the moment the standard ship colour doesn't bring attention to the fact you CAN get paint jobs.
I don't see elite as one of those F2P games. And I hope it never feels like that. It somehow makes games feel cheap.
O7
I don't see elite as one of those F2P games. And I hope it never feels like that. It somehow makes games feel cheap.
O7
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I disagree too, Frontier is not charging us every month for premium accounts like the majority of online games today, and they are clearly under staffed now that they are working on Planet Coaster too with massive delays in updates for Elite Dangerous, I personally think supporting them through those cosmetic items (even though better quality paintjobs and more variety of items are needed) is the right thing to do to support a company that is making Elite a 10+ year experience.
I agree with the OP in using cosmetics as in game rewards.
Want a different skin? Earn it.
Skins, decals, special weapons, engine upgrades and later on, uniforms badges and medals that show the world exactly what we have achieved, where we have been, who we support?
Awesome!
Increased sales by making the galaxy's greatest game is possibly also a better revenue stream?
By all means have stuff in the store, but using cosmetics as rewards sounds like a great way of adding more sand to the sandbox ��
Want a different skin? Earn it.
Skins, decals, special weapons, engine upgrades and later on, uniforms badges and medals that show the world exactly what we have achieved, where we have been, who we support?
Awesome!
Increased sales by making the galaxy's greatest game is possibly also a better revenue stream?
By all means have stuff in the store, but using cosmetics as rewards sounds like a great way of adding more sand to the sandbox ��
Seriously no need for huge post just say you want cosmetics for free LOL.
Said that I have always been proponent for rewarding interesting and meaningful decals for completing big CGs for example. Afaik as I understood FD are looking into this.
Said that I have always been proponent for rewarding interesting and meaningful decals for completing big CGs for example. Afaik as I understood FD are looking into this.
I much prefer earnable in game (I want my mining guild badge!)
Definitely, a better idea, than 'give us a few for free and sell premiums' for me.
Does this though by making each sale less valuable. So while you make the game cheaper to buy (in effect) a cut in revenue to Frontier can slow development because it's not necessarily a zero sum game, that a cut in price sells enough more copies to cover the loss on paintjobs sold.
As customers, we all want to pay as little as possible for everything in this life 'maybe', but as game players it's in our interest to resource ED as well as possible, so it develops as a game more quickly. At the end of the day (the well known phrase or saying goes) .. if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys?
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