Forum clutter...
Why start another thread when one is already open for discussion?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=173214
Counter-Thread: Please do NOT reconsider scarab fuel decision
- Thread starter dc83
- Start date
Forum clutter...
Why start another thread when one is already open for discussion?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=173214
As I just said in the other thread about this, the idea behind having fuel and therefore the possibility of "being saved" by the fuel rats or whoever is a great idea and all and adds to immersion/RP factor. But in reality it would do nothing more than limit us in a major way, I don't want to have to drive all the way back to my ship, put the RV in the back, fuel it up, take off again, fly another X thousand KM's or whatever and continue the journey. Having an entire planetary surface to drive across should be left as just that, without any limiting factors.
agree you'd think over a millennia from now we would have phased out gasoline. Fusion energy is not only clean but very powerful having a small compact fusion reaction (or hell even fission) for the SRVs seems logical.
I'm not sure that I agree: I think it's pretty reasonable that we might risk running out fuel in our SRV's, although that depends on how much fuel the SRV can store and how much power it uses.
What you say about fusion power might possibly be true in reality (well, when we get power-producing fusion at least), but I'm not sure that it is in game.
My Cobra has a fuel consumption of about one tonne/hour for 15 Megawatts. That's 1000/3600 = 270 g/s for 15 MW, or 19 g/s for 1 MW, or 19 grammes of fuel for one MJ.
According to the internets, burning a pound (~450 g) of gasoline is about 22 MJ, which means that 19*22 = 418 g of Hydrogen fuel equals 450 g of Gasoline.
So basically, assuming that the SRV's powerplant has the same efficency as the one in my Cobra, the powerplant is only slightly more efficent than a Gasoline-burning power source.
Of course - this is based on the electrical power output of my Cobra. I think some of the power produced by my powerplant goes straight into the reaction mass, since using your engines doesn't increase power consumption (beyond turning on/off). Maybe I'm just overanalyzing this, but I'm pretty sure that it would be reasonable to have SRV's run out of fuel.
Also - the SRV's aren't your standard 21st century automobiles: They are capable of flight, they have weapons, other equipment and maybe even shields (not sure about that). They might be a lot smaller than ships, but that also means that they have smaller fuel tanks.
In the end, I think this discussion will go down to what works best for gameplay, and for that, I honestly don't know what would be best. There's still so much we don't know; maybe there's something about the surface gameplay that makes SRV's having fuel a problem. I don't think we can know at this point.
(oh, and if I did something wrong in the calculation above, please mention it, because eing wrong about physics on the internet is so embarassing
)
Final fun fact: apparently the output of the reactor in my Cobra III equals about 20 000 horsepower. Not bad.
What you say about fusion power might possibly be true in reality (well, when we get power-producing fusion at least), but I'm not sure that it is in game.
My Cobra has a fuel consumption of about one tonne/hour for 15 Megawatts. That's 1000/3600 = 270 g/s for 15 MW, or 19 g/s for 1 MW, or 19 grammes of fuel for one MJ.
According to the internets, burning a pound (~450 g) of gasoline is about 22 MJ, which means that 19*22 = 418 g of Hydrogen fuel equals 450 g of Gasoline.
So basically, assuming that the SRV's powerplant has the same efficency as the one in my Cobra, the powerplant is only slightly more efficent than a Gasoline-burning power source.
Of course - this is based on the electrical power output of my Cobra. I think some of the power produced by my powerplant goes straight into the reaction mass, since using your engines doesn't increase power consumption (beyond turning on/off). Maybe I'm just overanalyzing this, but I'm pretty sure that it would be reasonable to have SRV's run out of fuel.
Also - the SRV's aren't your standard 21st century automobiles: They are capable of flight, they have weapons, other equipment and maybe even shields (not sure about that). They might be a lot smaller than ships, but that also means that they have smaller fuel tanks.
In the end, I think this discussion will go down to what works best for gameplay, and for that, I honestly don't know what would be best. There's still so much we don't know; maybe there's something about the surface gameplay that makes SRV's having fuel a problem. I don't think we can know at this point.
(oh, and if I did something wrong in the calculation above, please mention it, because eing wrong about physics on the internet is so embarassing
)Final fun fact: apparently the output of the reactor in my Cobra III equals about 20 000 horsepower. Not bad.
I've seen somewhere that when you venture too far from your ship, it automatically goes into orbit in order to pick you up when needed. If that's true, then having fuel or not will be completely irrelevant.
Running out of fuel is a great mechanic. If not explicitly fuel, than some other limitation. Oxygen? Oxygen. I don't care. But limits create frustration and that is half the equation for fun.
I'm not sure that I agree: I think it's pretty reasonable that we might risk running out fuel in our SRV's, although that depends on how much fuel the SRV can store and how much power it uses.
What you say about fusion power might possibly be true in reality (well, when we get power-producing fusion at least), but I'm not sure that it is in game.
My Cobra has a fuel consumption of about one tonne/hour for 15 Megawatts. That's 1000/3600 = 270 g/s for 15 MW, or 19 g/s for 1 MW, or 19 grammes of fuel for one MJ.
According to the internets, burning a pound (~450 g) of gasoline is about 22 MJ, which means that 19*22 = 418 g of Hydrogen fuel equals 450 g of Gasoline.
So basically, assuming that the SRV's powerplant has the same efficency as the one in my Cobra, the powerplant is only slightly more efficent than a Gasoline-burning power source.
Of course - this is based on the electrical power output of my Cobra. I think some of the power produced by my powerplant goes straight into the reaction mass, since using your engines doesn't increase power consumption (beyond turning on/off). Maybe I'm just overanalyzing this, but I'm pretty sure that it would be reasonable to have SRV's run out of fuel.
Also - the SRV's aren't your standard 21st century automobiles: They are capable of flight, they have weapons, other equipment and maybe even shields (not sure about that). They might be a lot smaller than ships, but that also means that they have smaller fuel tanks.
In the end, I think this discussion will go down to what works best for gameplay, and for that, I honestly don't know what would be best. There's still so much we don't know; maybe there's something about the surface gameplay that makes SRV's having fuel a problem. I don't think we can know at this point.
(oh, and if I did something wrong in the calculation above, please mention it, because eing wrong about physics on the internet is so embarassing
Final fun fact: apparently the output of the reactor in my Cobra III equals about 20 000 horsepower. Not bad.
I don't know how how much energy nuclear fission produces but I imagine gasoline doesn't come close to it not to mention the fact nuclear fusion is a lot more powerful than fission which would be magnitudes greater than gasoline.
How do we know that in the year 3015 that battery technology won't be super duper efficient. And your ship keeps it on charge for landing trips.
Ppffttt. See.
Saying this.... DB Confirmed that jets are fitted to land based vehicles for additional lift and to plant the vehicle to the ground if Gravity is very weak.
so, fuel most likely.
I am Flimley.
Ppffttt. See.
Saying this.... DB Confirmed that jets are fitted to land based vehicles for additional lift and to plant the vehicle to the ground if Gravity is very weak.
so, fuel most likely.
I am Flimley.
Wholeheartly agree with the OP. Sadly many others seem to think that inconvenicence equals fun mechanics. Yes its fun to get rescued by the fuel rats and dont get me wrong these guys are awesome, yet for the SRVs I was hoping to explore planets in a a more relaxed manner without having to worry about fuel etc. I was hoping for day long trips to feel how big the planets are. Whats the point of huge reallife sized planets if you can only drive some time until you have to return. This is a game after all and a game should also give you some kind of freedom and fun.
Fuelscopes on ships are an easy convenient way to refuel and since you only REALLY need fuel to jump between systems so its not really that different from having infinite fuel inside systems and no one was complaing that you did not run out of fuel inside systems. (stupid Huttonoribtal aside)
I dont really see a good solution for srvs that doesnt feel forced and unfun. Maybe I am wrong but I for myself am very disappointed with their decission. It goes against the freedom spirit of the game
´´
Fuelscopes on ships are an easy convenient way to refuel and since you only REALLY need fuel to jump between systems so its not really that different from having infinite fuel inside systems and no one was complaing that you did not run out of fuel inside systems. (stupid Huttonoribtal aside)
I dont really see a good solution for srvs that doesnt feel forced and unfun. Maybe I am wrong but I for myself am very disappointed with their decission. It goes against the freedom spirit of the game
´´
Last edited:
dammit , is reading your tread okey?
After giving this thought...I agree with you.
its an unnecessary mechanic that takes away from fun.
+rep
The energy weapons tho...honestly, I'd expect that to drain energy more than what is needed to drive and fly the SRV.
Personally, I can't be bothered either way. Fuel or no fuel. Logically, the SRV running out of fuel, given the power technologies available to the ships doesn't make a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, running out of fuel does add more thought and variety to the gameplay on the surface.
All in all, since you can call your ship in at any time, fuel isn't really a precious commodity for the SRV...so I guess I would say just nix the fuel requirement anyway.....OR...if we keep the fuel requirement, make recalling the ship more difficult or risky.
Personally, I can't be bothered either way. Fuel or no fuel. Logically, the SRV running out of fuel, given the power technologies available to the ships doesn't make a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, running out of fuel does add more thought and variety to the gameplay on the surface.
All in all, since you can call your ship in at any time, fuel isn't really a precious commodity for the SRV...so I guess I would say just nix the fuel requirement anyway.....OR...if we keep the fuel requirement, make recalling the ship more difficult or risky.
That is, it adds thought until your thought strays to "recall ship" and then it all just becomes useless tedium unless of course you're foolish enough to put yourself into a location inaccessible to ships when your fuel runs out, but I suppose people fly without insurance so....I wouldn't classify that as "fun gameplay" so much as "forum fuel".
Exactly...if the fuel mechanic is to stay...calling your ship must come with its own cost.
Now, recalling your ship on a High Sec, friendly planet would probably present only minimal issues....maybe just an NPC sidey that takes half a ring of shields down as you get back in the ship to blast him.
On a Anarchic planet with lots of meanies about...perhaps your ship will be subject to surface to air attack. Possibly taking down the shields and taking chunks of the hull. This would present a situation where you would think twice about calling your ship and perhaps make it so that your ship would only survive doing it maybe once or twice.
Last edited:
While I would enjoy that kind of gameplay, I can also see that becoming a nuisance. I'd feel like too much of a honey pot, why are all these guys happening upon little old me? If the planet is in a high pop area I am just another, of the many ships, going about my business, I'm protected by the herd, as it were. If it is more isolated then there won't be many around to find me, I am protected by the emptyness. If my ship is constantly attacked while recalling it smacks to much of gamey-ness for my taste.
-
They did say in the stream that they had built some interesting/fun gameplay mechanics around the SRV fuel consumption and I hope that is true, but I haven't been able to think how they will be more fun and less tedium. I do hope I'm wrong though, and if turns out to be an entertaining and valuable mechanic I'll be entirely pleased.
Limitations are only good if there is a way around them or if they force you into a path that is more interesting than if there was no limitation.
Considering FD already said there would be no planetside refueling of the SRV ala fuel rat, I am not sure what would be gained, from a gameplay perspective, from limiting the SRV's fuel. I doubt there will be some super deep gameplay related to fuel: this isn't KSP where the entire game revolves around you figuring out ways of beng the most fuel efficient possible. I would heartily welcome fuel limitations if they had some real and deep implications that wouldn't just frustrate you but would open up more gameplay. Alas that doesn't sound like the kind of game ED is trying to be, so I'd rather there be no limitation at all. I'm sure for the immersion nuts we can come up with some handwavium that would explain it.
Last edited:
Fuel management is resource management. It's no different than managing your credits or your ammunition. The issue came when Frontier announced they had no idea in hades how to do a fuel management mechanic, and just slapped fuel on the SRV's without doing anything else to incorporate it into the gameplay.
Fuel is not a hard resource for players to come across. An Asp could refuel an SRV for days on end. It was intended to be an engaging mechanic for newer players getting into Exploration in their smaller ships, it ended up being a pointless mechanic that everyone will ignore.
Energy =/= Fuel. Fuel is also what you put into the tank to have a mass that gets propelled out at high speed so you can get thrust.