Counter to FSD reset/interrupt?

[Assimilator1]

I guess not then, I'm not sure if I want to do CGs in open anymore then, which is a shame as I find the real risk from cmdrs quite a buzz, but near certain death is no fun .
Although doing CGs in solo or PG isn't as much fun as open before the FSD/thruster disruption weapons became wide spread either......

 

[Turd Ferguson]

How about fast boot FSD?

 

[Assimilator1]

I can see that would help against just the FSD disruption (though at the cost of a large drop in jump range!), but where someone alternates between FSD disruption & thruster rebooting, I don't see how that would help as there would be no let up, unless PDs managed to shoot them down, which is a long way from certain.

I wonder what the likelihood of 2x, 3x & 4x PDs of shooting down those mines & missiles?
I'm willing to be a guinea pig, if anyone has those weapons!?

 

[Krash]

How about fast boot FSD?

About a year later I can report the Fast boot FSD upgrade does the trick. Its on all of my PvP ships. I've noticed an undocumented side effect to this: they can only reset the FSD one time. All I have is my own personal experience to back this up, but it seems to be what happens. FSD reset triggered by enemy while jump drive is spinning up, 2 secs later the spinup restarts and the jump is always successful. I should say, its really hard to hit me with dumbfires now as I'm boosting away, I'll boost left and right in unpredictable fashion and I see the satisfying radar animation of missiles zipping past harmlessly.

 

[Tiili]

Krash, you sure it's not just the hidden cooldown after the first FSD breaker has hit?

I'm not sure how many seconds the CD actually is tho, but it's never possible to chain interrupt someone if they try to jump again as soon as possible.

It's also possible to interrupt a jump after the countdown has started..

 

[Krash]

Krash, you sure it's not just the hidden cooldown after the first FSD breaker has hit?

I'm not sure how many seconds the CD actually is tho, but it's never possible to chain interrupt someone if they try to jump again as soon as possible.

It's also possible to interrupt a jump after the countdown has started..

That sounds right. I don't stick around to test the cooldown. The Faster Reboot Seq pretty much guarantees escape.

 

[Assimilator1]

Krash, you sure it's not just the hidden cooldown after the first FSD breaker has hit?

I'm not sure how many seconds the CD actually is tho, but it's never possible to chain interrupt someone if they try to jump again as soon as possible.

It's also possible to interrupt a jump after the countdown has started..

What about if someone alternates between FSD interupt & thruster interupt (reboot)? The later will also affect the FSD, so wouldn't that allow for chain interrupt?

 

[Tiili]

If someone is fleeing with FA on for some reason, ion disruptors will work if you're also able to stay in front of whoever is trying to escape you..

If they are flying FA off, the disruptors will turn the drives off but if there's already enough speed and the right heading, they'll be jumping away anyways...
So that's why you'll also need some force shells

 

[Krash]

The cooldown might be on the FSD, meaning any more resets, regardless of source or method, will not reset the FSD. I've been hit with the ION disruptor during combat, not while escaping but I can see how that would stack with a FSD reset since its a totally different effect.

 

[Assimilator1]

If someone is fleeing with FA on for some reason, ion disruptors will work if you're also able to stay in front of whoever is trying to escape you..

If they are flying FA off, the disruptors will turn the drives off but if there's already enough speed and the right heading, they'll be jumping away anyway...
So that's why you'll also need some force shells

Err, well, most people fly with FA on most of the time! I personally briefly switch FA off during combat manoeuvrers, and in escaping manoeuvrers (although nowhere near as much, so probably not enough).
Regarding deploying mines, that's not necessarily how they could be deployed. Another possibility is after the attacker has fired dumbfires FSD disrupting missiles to a target, the target may then reverse direction to avoid taking fire on the thrusters (or simply to buy time to get the FSD back up. I generally do that now), then the attacker could intercept them & drop Ionic mines in their face. Or alternately the attacker could overtake the target & drop mines in front of them (as per your scenario).
Remember I'm talking about big slow ships, in my case a conda, but I would think that applies to any slow ship.

Btw I think you're wrong about one thing though, if they are in FA off & thrusters are shutdown, then so is the FSD, so no, they won't be able to jump away. Even if they were, happening to be pointing in the right direction just after evasive manoeuvrers is very unlikely.
I can't remember what force shells are, I'll have to look it up . [update] Ok, got ya.

Anyway, this does seem to confirm that shutting down the FSD permanently (until ammo runs out anyway) is entirely possible, which out of 3 times of losing my conda recently in open CGs, at least 2 of them was because I was never able to get my FSD back up long enough to jump out (the other occasion, I had I believe, a bug where the cargo scoop was retracted but not recognised by the game which stopped me jumping out, or boosting of course! Grrr). I won't deny though that my evasion techniques need improving! Anyone willing to help me practice against FSD & thruster disrupting modded weapons?

So unless I'm missing something still, as I said to 13th Cylon, this combo for totally stopping jumping out is OP.

 

[Tiili]

this combo for totally stopping jumping out is OP.

If it's only OP against defenseless badly flown papercraft, it's not very OP at all It's sacrificing a lot of potential DPS for 2 CC abilities, one of which relies on your opponent making a piloting mistake

 

[Assimilator1]

And their goes the arrogance & false assumptions!

My craft is definitely not defenceless, although it only has a 5A shield gen (legacy engineered, reinforced G4) it has 6 shield boosters all of which are engineered (all G5 bar 1 G4) see the Serenity's build here, (that's slightly out of date as I've ditched the ECM & replaced it with another point defence), I am not claiming it's armed to the teeth either. Bear in mind it is a long range (mostly) hauler, hence the 5A shld gen (which, IIRC, last I checked couldn't be improved upon with the current engineering). Yea the hull is fairly weak, and sure I could fit military armour now I have the cash to do it, but only really for short range hauling. And anyway, the shields do hold up for a reasonable time (in attacks by cmdrs so far anyway).

But I seriously doubt that military armour alone would keep me in one piece until they run out of ammo! Remember, I'm talking about using a combo of FSD disruption and Ionic thruster disruption to continuously prevent jumping, that is OP!
As for my flying, I wouldn't say it's great, but it ain't bad either. Piloting error? What by not being able to dodge dumbfire missiles fired at close range against a conda which is the preverbal barn door? Similar with the mines. Whatever mate!
I will say I haven't been in the same situation again with the 2 point defences fitted though.

So what would you do differently with a conda?

 

[Tiili]

Equip frags(turrets) with screening shells on every hardpoint if you're really worried about some [cmdr_super-ace-grom-ion-miner] and your point defenses aren't working for some strange reason. And/or force shell cannons to throw off his aim
Why does a hauler need lasers anyways? Use the slots for utility tools like different sorts of mines and whatever I described up there.

If your opponent can also drop mines into your flight path and you're flying into them for some strange reason, I could argue that a piloting mistake. Shouldn't he just use reverberating cascades to make the shield cracking job easier if you're gonna fly into them anyways ?

If you don't have money to fit actual thrusters, armor and all the jazz, don't fly it in open and expect to win every encounter either.

The build you posted dies very easily against a cascade torp build as well, especially after you swapped the ECM to another PD and it's a slow ass tub.
It would feel a lot more "OP" to just melt to pieces after getting grommed than having someone do a stunt show with mines for sure.

Fly something cheaper that you can afford to fit better or be so much better at piloting than your opponent that you can field subpar equipment in this cutthroat galaxy and survive

 

[Assimilator1]

Lasers & MCs are for fighting NPCs only (bar dying desperation, lol), meant to mention that previously but forgot.
I'll look into screening shells .

As for mines, well I can only assume I flew into some, I didn't see any, but their were many white blips on the radar, can't dodge what I can't see (assuming I could in a conda).
He possibly dropped mines into my path as I doubled back to him to prevent hits to the thrusters (later on), as I mentioned earlier, or maybe the one time when the drives did begin to charge I headed for the jump direction? I can't remember TBH (I should've videod it).
Anyway, I was focusing onto trying to get the hell out, previously I've just weathered the attacks for the (normally) short time before I jump out, used to work, doesn't so much now!

7D thrusters aren't for cost reasons, it's for keeping a reasonable jump range, as is the armour, although, like said in my last post I could sacrifice that when deliveries are much nearer by. I also said on my previous post I can afford to arm it properly now , unlike when I 1st got it (a year and a half ago, lol).

Interesting point about the cascade torpedo build, I can't remember what they are, nor do I believe I've been hit by torpedoes (does the cockpit voice warn of 'incoming torpedo', or am I thinking of Freelancer? ). Wouldn't my conda outpace a torpedo? ......just read they fly at 250 m/s, so yes, when boosting at least, and assuming they don't drop them into my face.
Re PDs, wouldn't a 2nd PD be better against torp's too?

 

[Northpin]

Re PDs, wouldn't a 2nd PD be better against torp's too?

Nope, not really. Torps have quite a large hitpoints pool. Not sure if 4 PDT (see below) will manage to kill a torp fast enough.
Torps have a limited speed and you should be able to outrun them even in a Conda, presuming you can boost more often than not.
But the torps will take the speed of the launching vessel for some seconds and after that they will slowdown to 250m/s. So if well timed, you will be hit anyway.

Against torps you can try to use a build with a B-rated shield with thermal and double braced, but then you should compensate with some Guardian shield boosters - and there goes your cargo capacity
But the shield linked will take 4 torps and still work. Might work even after the 5th - not really sure if they do 44 damage or 43 - if the later your shield will still be working after the 5th

Against mines and groms you can use 4 PDT, 2 top + 2 bottom. If they fire groms at point blank range, they will hit you anyway, but otherwise no mines/missile will hit you

But the Groms FSD reset has a cooldown and you can safely jump out until the next grom will be able to reboot your FSD.
Alternatively you can pack a slf hangar and use fighters with PDT, but if your attackers know their drill, they will kill your SLF asap.
Even tho, you might manage to increase your window of escape that way.

 

[Tiili]

If you were concerned about getting mines dropped on your path in the first place, what makes you think that a torpedo user would be chasing after you? Like, why are you assuming that the torpedo user would be a newbie and silly, if the grom + mine user is like one of the best pilots in the game ?

 

[Assimilator1]

A? I didn't, that's why I said 'assuming they don't drop then into my face', even if it was an end note .

Northpin
Thanks for the info , noted re PDs & torp's, also that means less shld boosters & weaker shlds without guardian shld reinforcements (which I don't have unlocked yet).
What did you mean by 'shield linked'?

On the last inderdiction I wasn't able to get my FSD back up, I can only assume I was hit with Ionic disruption too.

 

[Northpin]

What did you mean by 'shield linked'?

The 5b thermal shield from the linked build in my previous post...
Was typing in a hurry and the post came out really chaotic

Unlocking the most useful guardian stuff (fsd booster and shield reinforcements) will not take long and you might even enjoy it

 

[Assimilator1]

Ah got ya
I've already unlocked the FSD booster, I use it on the conda for the longer hauling routes. Unlocking it was ok, the 1st runs were ok, but after that it got a little tedious, although it was slightly offset by beginning to remember where stuff was.
I wonder if I've already unlocked the shld reinf but just didn't have the materials to make it......