Crime and punishment, make bounties for murder mean something

[Helvellyn]

There are already consequences.

Again you are implying that gankers do not properly play the game and should be punished. They are playing just as you are and are part of the environment. This game isn’t played in a legit way only by pacifist players. If I want to mess up someone’s day it should be possible and if someone wants to mess up my day it should be possible. That’s all there is to it.

You need to abandon the notion that aggressive players are not properly doing things. They are just as you are.

If you just want to go and blow each other up CQC is over there. I would hope for a bit more depth in the rest of the game world. Just as you should be taking a risk if you run a vulnerable ship in to a dangerous system (and there should be motivations for doing that) you should also run a risk - a meaningful one - for attacking anyone in safe systems. All for the sake of fleshing out the in-game universe.

 

[Gunther_Bladderburst]

If you just want to go and blow each other up CQC is over there. I would hope for a bit more depth in the rest of the game world. Just as you should be taking a risk if you run a vulnerable ship in to a dangerous system (and there should be motivations for doing that) you should also run a risk - a meaningful one - for attacking anyone in safe systems. All for the sake of fleshing out the in-game universe.

Point me to the rule where it says you can outfit your ship for combat but not use it in combat then.

Otherwise killing players is just another facet of the game. I hate mining, some like it. You hate combat, some like it. Get used to it.

You know why nothing happens to gankers? Because they play the game in a legit way even if it ticks you off.

BTW I am not even a ganker and I got killed a few times by players. I can defend myself to a certain extent. One of my murderers apologized in private, I told him why do you apologize? It’s the game.

 

[Helvellyn]

Point me to the rule where it says you can outfit your ship for combat but not use it in combat then.

You know why nothing happens to gankers? Because they play the game in a legit way even if it ticks you off.

BTW I am not even a ganker and I got killed a few times by players. I can defend myself to a certain extent. One of my murderers apologized in private, I told him why do you apologize? It’s the game.

Whoosh, that's the sound of the point flying right over your head.

I said nothing at all about the legitimacy of the way they play. What I said that I'd hope for a bit more depth in the game world, that there should be more depth to it than CQC with bigger ships.
I said nothing at all about hating combat (I'm not very good at it so I prefer the supercruise cat and mouse efforts, or even just figuring out the motives of that hollow marker - are they going to attack? Are they just heading off somewhere to trade? that I sometimes get with other players, they can be quite satisfying, but I've also escaped after being interdicted too sometimes). That makes the game a lot more interesting because NPCs never pose any cause for concern unless you're actively looking for it.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

In the ever going debate on gankers versus people trying to enjoy the game, we have the issue of the current way crime and punishment works.

There are a few key items to consider:
1 - We must treat NPCs and Player Characters the same way. (For "reasons", just go with it.)
2 - We want there to be a way for players to prey on NPCs, both in missions and outside.
3- Different factions are different jurisdictions, and normally does not care for crimes in other jurisdictions.
4- We want there to be a real downside however to "role play" the psycopath that runs around killing randomly.


The current system does definitely allow for #1 to #3 while #4 clearly is not currently discouraging enough.

The system with "notoriery" that forces you to wait before you pay off a bounty, and NPC bounty hunter is something. The problem is that the bounties are no way near the losses incurred.

My suggestion is to add a reparations as part of the punishment. You incur a reparation debt that amounts to the rebuy cost for the ship destroyed as well as the cost for any cargo destroyed. Notice that robbery (aka "piracy") does not count as goods destroyed. The cost is either 90% of galactic average or actual purchase cost, whichever is the lowest.

This of course has to be reflected in they payout for massacre and wet-ops missions.

At the same time anarchy systems need to mean something, I propose that uninhabited systems without a navigation beacon are considered lawless, the same way that some installations and conflict zones are today.

Anarchy regimes should not share bounties, while high security regimes should share murder bounties once you cross a certain threshold. If that is 10 notoriety or one billion in legal debts or something else I leave for those with better insight into the game mechanics (preferably FDev).


As for notoriety and bounties/fines/reparations as a result of missions:
Part of the rewards for a wet ops missions could be that your name is cleared for that crime (fines and reparations for that crime are paid off, but not notoriety). Just stay out of trouble if you do wet-ops, notoriety in itself is not a problem unless you have a bounty on your head.

Massacre missions (killing X number of enemy ships) are typically given in war, so there will be conflict zone where you can get those kills without incurring a murder charge.


This is a bit of a brain dump, so here goes:
1 - reparations for lost cargo and rebuy for the victim. The current discount for victims of mass murderers should be in place, but not reduce the amount the criminal pays to the insurance company. This just means that less of the reparations are paid to the victim.
2 - base bounty/fine for murder significantly increased to about one million credits. Also unlimit the payout.
3 - Bounty is set to half the value of the fines and reparations incurred both for fines above a value lower than the murder value, and unpaid fines, just as today.
4 - Trespassing and other minor bounties are not touched.
5- If reparations are paid off at a station contact, full reparations are sent to the victim(s).
6- If a bounty is claimed, reparations are halved (as half the bounties and reparations are paid as bounty)
7 - Legal debts are account bound and stay through character wipes.
8 - Failed missions? The penalties should be on the murderer, not the vicim. The murderer shold lose the majority of the goodwill. This includes fines for lost mission specific goods.

Please. if you comment, do not claim that it is a major inconvenience not to be able to handle hot goods because you managed to rack up millions in bounties using the current system, or that some of you ships and ship parts are hot. Just pay off your debts and be done with it.

Do however comment on situations I did not think of, actualy relevant game play that have to be accomodated without turning the galaxy into the completely lawless anarchy it is now.

Huh! And not a single mention of how after the last crime and punishment update delivered "eye watering" (FDEV's word, not mine) penalties deep core mining came along and earned us gankers, and everyone else for that matter, billions.

It's almost like FDEV and the community are completely incapable of thinking the issue through in any satisfactory manner.

WEIRD.