Current state of exploration

[Lord Proton]

Personally, as I've commented in another thread, I'm of the opinion that colonisation needs to be part of a wider exploration revamp. I really do think that for a game that prides itself in offering the vastness of the Milky Way to explore, the current state of the exploration mechanic is not fit for purpose in 2025.

The limited variety of landable planets completely breaks the sense of immersion after you've landed on the first few out in the black. Not to mention the flora which is pretty much limited to a dozen or so variations.

Not being able to land on atmospheric planets due to "reasons" is also extremely jarring. I understand that populated planets with cities might be complicated, however, if I recall correctly, one of the devs mentioned a while back that maybe domed cities might be the way forward in that respect.

I've seen it mentioned a few times that the technology to implement full atmosphere landable planets might be too complex, however, I remember Braben suggesting at game launch that the tech was ready but they didn't want to release it without worthwhile gameplay. Yet when implemented we ended up with mind blowing gameplay such as driving around on barren planets that all look the same, scanning flora that all looks the same.

From what I gather, exploration is consistently flagged by the community as the most popular aspect of Elite Dangerous, yet it is by far in my opinion the most threadbare.

If 2025 plans are limited to colonisation as described; essentially space trucking, with some elements of base building, with the end result being the ability to administer a system with your name on it - well let just say I can see that becoming old pretty quickly and it might be time for this commander to retire.

Commander Lord Proton, active 1985 - 2025? Time will tell o7

 

[Koma Pahu]

The limited variety of landable planets completely breaks the sense of immersion after you've landed on the first few out in the black.

I’ve never been to another planet, but I’d imagine most of those we can land on in the galaxy are in fact pretty similar.

Not to mention the flora which is pretty much limited to a dozen or so variations.

I agree with you here, it is a bit weird that convergent evolution is so widespread producing exactly the same adaptations. I suppose the Guardians or some such could have seeded the galaxy, but the reality is they’re all hand crafted assets and are therefore limited.

Not being able to land on atmospheric planets due to "reasons" is also extremely jarring. I understand that populated planets with cities might be complicated, however, if I recall correctly, one of the devs mentioned a while back that maybe domed cities might be the way forward in that respect.

I don’t think there would be many who would object to atmo landings but, however it’s implemented, it’s going to be a big project. Hopefully the recent uptick in interest will give them enough confidence to start thinking about the next DLC.

 

[Rat Catcher]

From what I gather, exploration is consistently flagged by the community as the most popular aspect of Elite Dangerous, yet it is by far in my opinion the most threadbare.

It depends on one's bias toward topics, naturally...
It could equally as easily be PvP play
Or Trade
Or bounty Hunting...

"Explorers" have 400+ Billion systems, but they aren't worth exploring, because "reasons"... OK

I do find it curious that there can never be enough of the "right sort of" content to please players, perhaps ED should have stuck to a couple of systems to explore, like that other massively funded space alpha offers... Then folk can be busy discovering the same flora on every planet, and all of them looking like plants from Sol...

 

[o2thaZ]

Atmos landing was just a selling point for Braben, look at how he behaves (in that video) when talking about it. One hundred percent lying in yo face.
Ten years later and no ELW, no WW, no Gas Giants, yeah i'm not holding my breath. Surprise me FDev!

 

[aRJay]

Personally, as I've commented in another thread, I'm of the opinion that colonisation needs to be part of a wider exploration revamp. I really do think that for a game that prides itself in offering the vastness of the Milky Way to explore, the current state of the exploration mechanic is not fit for purpose in 2025.

Yes the tools and mechanics of exploration could use an update, apart from exobiology they haven’t been changed for many years.

The limited variety of landable planets completely breaks the sense of immersion after you've landed on the first few out in the black. Not to mention the flora which is pretty much limited to a dozen or so variations.

Not being able to land on atmospheric planets due to "reasons" is also extremely jarring. I understand that populated planets with cities might be complicated, however, if I recall correctly, one of the devs mentioned a while back that maybe domed cities might be the way forward in that respect.

I've seen it mentioned a few times that the technology to implement full atmosphere landable planets might be too complex, however, I remember Braben suggesting at game launch that the tech was ready but they didn't want to release it without worthwhile gameplay. Yet when implemented we ended up with mind blowing gameplay such as driving around on barren planets that all look the same, scanning flora that all looks the same.

That is a disappointment I was hoping for a talk about the how’s of exploration not the whats.

From what I gather, exploration is consistently flagged by the community as the most popular aspect of Elite Dangerous, yet it is by far in my opinion the most threadbare.

If 2025 plans are limited to colonisation as described; essentially space trucking, with some elements of base building, with the end result being the ability to administer a system with your name on it - well let just say I can see that becoming old pretty quickly and it might be time for this commander to retire.

Commander Lord Proton, active 1985 - 2025? Time will tell o7

But more time than that Commander.

 

[Ozric]

It depends on one's bias toward topics, naturally...
It could equally as easily be PvP play
Or Trade
Or bounty Hunting...

"Explorers" have 400+ Billion systems, but they aren't worth exploring, because "reasons"... OK

I do find it curious that there can never be enough of the "right sort of" content to please players, perhaps ED should have stuck to a couple of systems to explore, like that other massively funded space alpha offers... Then folk can be busy discovering the same flora on every planet, and all of them looking like plants from Sol...

Exploration is, to my knowledge, the only part of Elite Dangerous that has been reported on by major international news outlets. It generates the only positive media coverage.
It's the only part of the game where Frontier have a running weekly competition used to show off the game.

It has had one update to the mechanics since the game launched. Which was, as mentioned by the developers at the time, done to make Exploration easier for those who don't explore. (not to make exploration better or more indepth)

Now granted Exobiology was added to the game with Odyssey, but let's not forget that the two main mechanics for that (the heat map and the sample mini game) were removed during the Alpha.

While I don't agree with the issues that the OP has about similar planets and thicker atmospheres, you can't deny that the part of the game that is promoted the most, has the least attention paid to it.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

It has had one update to the mechanics since the game launched.

Yes. Though the tricky thing is thinking of what further updates could be made that wouldn't get the response "see, Frontier doesn't understand Explorers".

- additional things to discover (as in Beyond 3.3 with NSP lifeforms and Odyssey with exobiology) don't seem to "count" as improvements to exploration, and are expensive on art team time besides.
- additional environments without additional things to discover risks being "Odyssey, with a higher-saturation skybox"
- more types of interactions - in ED - means more modules to carry. How many people are currently carrying research limpets on exploration trips? Lasers? Manifest scanners? (All necessary to interact fully with existing non-combat things already found out in the black)
- challenge / danger / risk appears generally unwanted and has major balancing issues (depending on whether you have access to a nearby FC or not)

 

[Koma Pahu]

- more types of interactions - in ED - means more modules to carry. How many people are currently carrying research limpets on exploration trips? Lasers? Manifest scanners? (All necessary to interact fully with existing non-combat things already found out in the black)

What do you use a manifest scanner for other than pirating?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

What do you use a manifest scanner for other than pirating?

Finding out what's in the cargo holds of any megaships or installations I come across in deep space.

How you then choose to use that information is up to you - generally there's nothing actually worth stealing (and it wouldn't count as exploration content if there was, right?), but it certainly annoys me not to be even able to look.

(My last long-range exploration trip, I brought the research limpets but not the manifest scanner, and of course found one installation and no sample-able NSPs; lesson learned for next time to bring both)

 

[Rat Catcher]

It has had one update to the mechanics since the game launched. Which was, as mentioned by the developers at the time, done to make Exploration easier for those who don't explore. (not to make exploration better or more indepth)

When the DSS / FSS was added in 3.3? Certainly a major update compared to the scanners we had previously!

Now granted Exobiology was added to the game with Odyssey, but let's not forget that the two main mechanics for that (the heat map and the sample mini game) were removed during the Alpha.

The mini-game was removed bacause it was not really in keeping with the game - another offering that was affected by FPS, so playing at anything other than 30 FPS was twitch reflexes, hardly in keeping with the game.
Goodness knows why the colourful 'heat map' that gave each Bio sign its own colour was removed, but it was.

While I don't agree with the issues that the OP has about similar planets and thicker atmospheres, you can't deny that the part of the game that is promoted the most, has the least attention paid to it.

I consider it has had at least as much attention paid to it as the other game 'professions', mining had new content added, very pretty, did trade, or combat get new gameplay added? (Ignoring the Thargoid war, that added new content for anyone but explorers, but then, as most seem to fly paper bags, that sort of content would be unwanted anyway! (but it would have been fun if the Thargoid warships appeared anywhere in space, rather than hanging around in unfashionable parts of the bubble mostly)) I don't recall it having so.

But, as is normal, the game doesn't provide XXX for player type YYY, according to the players - whatever they have just isn't enough, is it?

Postscript: I've been playing almost 8 years and have not yet ran out of activities that engage me, yes, I'd enjoy more atmospheric bodies to land on, and I'm not an Explorer, as well as all of the professions, particularly Combat, to get a major overhaul, but I'm cynical enough to realise that we can only get what we are given, and the content we are given often feels unfinished.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Finding out what's in the cargo holds of any megaships or installations I come across in deep space.

How you then choose to use that information is up to you - generally there's nothing actually worth stealing (and it wouldn't count as exploration content if there was, right?), but it certainly annoys me not to be even able to look.

(My last long-range exploration trip, I brought the research limpets but not the manifest scanner, and of course found one installation and no sample-able NSPs; lesson learned for next time to bring both)

That makes sense.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Ignoring the Thargoid war, that added new content for anyone but explorers, but then, as most seem to fly paper bags, that sort of content would be unwanted anyway! (but it would have been fun if the Thargoid warships appeared anywhere in space, rather than hanging around in unfashionable parts of the bubble mostly)

It would have been a good time to add some danger to exploration. More aggressive Thargs would encourage people to fly sturdier ships, with a good narrative reason, and then once it had become normalised other dangers could be added elsewhere. But Alas…

 

[Ozric]

Yes. Though the tricky thing is thinking of what further updates could be made that wouldn't get the response "see, Frontier doesn't understand Explorers".

- additional things to discover (as in Beyond 3.3 with NSP lifeforms and Odyssey with exobiology) don't seem to "count" as improvements to exploration, and are expensive on art team time besides.
- additional environments without additional things to discover risks being "Odyssey, with a higher-saturation skybox"
- more types of interactions - in ED - means more modules to carry. How many people are currently carrying research limpets on exploration trips? Lasers? Manifest scanners? (All necessary to interact fully with existing non-combat things already found out in the black)
- challenge / danger / risk appears generally unwanted and has major balancing issues (depending on whether you have access to a nearby FC or not)

Well obviously it depends on who you ask. I thoroughly enjoyed all the additions in 3.3 with the NSPs they were incredibly atmospheric. But you can't interact with 99% of them in any way. The most you can do for the majority is point at them and then get a Codex entry. And let's not even get started on how bugged the Codex still is over 6 years later, or how inaccurate and suboptimal the information in it is Because I don't have the energy for that but the 30 odd issues I've raised on it haven't helped.

More types of interactions don't necessarily mean more modules, they could be incorporated into the FSS. And there could be either upgrades or a way of engineering new functions into it. I do fly with Limpet controllers (I'd synth limpets though), and lasers, no manifest scanner though.

To be honest there have been so many great suggestions to the sort of extra information that could be gathered and analysed over the years, we even had a stickied thread in the Exploration forum that was brimming over with ideas. When the exploration revamp and Focused Feedback thread was announced we thought that some might be taken into account, but that chance never happened.

When the DSS / FSS was added in 3.3? Certainly a major update compared to the scanners we had previously!

Yes that one. It was an update in terms of speed yes.

The mini-game was removed bacause it was not really in keeping with the game - another offering that was affected by FPS, so playing at anything other than 30 FPS was twitch reflexes, hardly in keeping with the game.

Actually the mini game was removed officially for accessibility reasons because some people couldn't do it. Which is a very good and worthwhile reason to add a toggle. Not sure that a game that involves fast paced ship combat and FPS, can be described as not twitch based though

I consider it has had at least as much attention paid to it as the other game 'professions', mining had new content added, very pretty, did trade, or combat get new gameplay added?

So the update before Mining was a revamp to the Trading. A massive overhaul to the commodities market, new filters to the galaxy map, trading marker and live price comparison.

It's interesting that the Mining overhaul, the Crime & Punishment overhaul (which included many more combat updates and additions) and the Exploration overhaul were all to have Focused Feedback threads where people could suggest ideas, and critique the suggestions and information that Frontier presented to us of the changes they were planning. Except the Exploration one was cancelled.

You must be joking about combat not getting new content though. One update even had a separate Beta just for combat balancing changes. Countless new weapons, new scenarios, new enemies, new missions, crew to help you fight, ship launched fighters, new engineering. I mean I could go on, but like I said you must be joking.

But, as is normal, the game doesn't provide XXX for player type YYY, according to the players - whatever they have just isn't enough, is it?

Well again, that's all dependent on who you ask isn't it. I started exploring on the first day of Gamma, before we knew our names would even appear in game, when there was no route plotting. And I'm still doing it now, because it's a really chill experience I enjoy. The difference is now rather than using parallax scrolling and having to fly close to a planet to see what it was, I sit by the main star and spend 1 minute in the FSS scanning the whole system. All exploration content is still stuff you can just look at.

Goodness knows why the colourful 'heat map' that gave each Bio sign its own colour was removed, but it was

It was people who don't explore, complaining about something for explorers because they didn't understand it. Even though they had no intention of engaging with it

 

[Shadowsnog]

Exploration is, to my knowledge, the only part of Elite Dangerous that has been reported on by major international news outlets.

really? the only articles ive seen about elite were about thargoids

 

[marx]

Exploration is, to my knowledge, the only part of Elite Dangerous that has been reported on by major international news outlets. It generates the only positive media coverage.

Thargoid stuff too, especially the final parts of the (latest) war. But yeah, I think the exploration stuff (DW2, the lost GGG) generated more articles.

Now granted Exobiology was added to the game with Odyssey, but let's not forget that the two main mechanics for that (the heat map and the sample mini game) were removed during the Alpha.

Honestly, good riddance to that reflex-based QTE mini-game. The heat map... knowing what we know now, I think it might have been misleading to people. We would have had a lot of complaints about stuff like "the map was orange / red there, I flew for hours but couldn't find anything"

There is however one huge mistake with Odyssey. One of the main selling points of the FSS at the time was that the devs said it was designed so that people could jump in, look at the barcode (not the exact word they used there, of course), see if there's anything they're looking for there, and jump out if there isn't. After Odyssey, this design goal was broken: if you're looking for thin atmo bodies, which is where the overwhelming majority of exobiology is, you have to grind the mini-game to completion to see if there's any that you're looking for, or not.

So, one suggestion I'd make would be to include atmosphere signals too. It wouldn't have to be overly complex either: just extend the "signals" on the bar vertically for atmospheres.

Of course, the FSS would need a complete rework, an FSS 2.0 if you will - but in the meantime, such a low-effort change would still help significantly.

- additional things to discover (as in Beyond 3.3 with NSP lifeforms and Odyssey with exobiology) don't seem to "count" as improvements to exploration, and are expensive on art team time besides.

One of the two main problems with NSPs is that their distribution is terrible, and most explorers don't run into them unless they are specifically going to their locations. Then there's that the one NSP that they are likely to find on their own, as long as they stay in the Inner Orion Spur that is, are so tiny and difficult to notice that the overwhelming majority of new explorers think that the NSP's main focus are the metallic crystals.
Then of course there's that the rewards for engaging with them are practically not-existent. But even if that were fixed, the distribution of NSPs themselves would still need to be fixed too.

- additional environments without additional things to discover risks being "Odyssey, with a higher-saturation skybox"

I'm pretty sure they could easily add new flora now, the system should be fairly extensible. Whether that alone would be worth it is a different question, of course - but in terms of variety in systems, being able to land on HMC / Icy / Rocky / Rocky-Icy worlds with thicker atmospheres would certainly help with giving more places to explore.

- challenge / danger / risk appears generally unwanted and has major balancing issues (depending on whether you have access to a nearby FC or not)

Then there's also that people who want to do combat stuff want to do it in the bubble, and they wouldn't be happy about having to go far to do some unique fights. Even with fleet carriers.

 

[Ozric]

really? the only articles ive seen about elite were about thargoids

Thargoid stuff too, especially the final parts of the (latest) war. But yeah, I think the exploration stuff (DW2, the lost GGG) generated more articles.

Yes sorry I probably should have said mainstream media. BBC have covered multiple stories about the science in the early days especially when the Unknown Probes were discovered. Both the Distant Worlds were covered by BBC, Reuters and others.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Then there's also that people who want to do combat stuff want to do it in the bubble, and they wouldn't be happy about having to go far to do some unique fights. Even with fleet carriers.

Yes, though I'm thinking more "hazardous environment" than "combat" here.

Or challenge wouldn't even necessarily need to involve danger as such - an NSP lifeform which flees rapidly and has low heat could be tricky to get information on without being a threat as such (ramming the nearby crystals while chasing it, sure, that's a different matter)

 

[deleteduser]

Personally, as I've commented in another thread, I'm of the opinion that colonisation needs to be part of a wider exploration revamp. I really do think that for a game that prides itself in offering the vastness of the Milky Way to explore, the current state of the exploration mechanic is not fit for purpose in 2025.

The limited variety of landable planets completely breaks the sense of immersion after you've landed on the first few out in the black. Not to mention the flora which is pretty much limited to a dozen or so variations.

Not being able to land on atmospheric planets due to "reasons" is also extremely jarring. I understand that populated planets with cities might be complicated, however, if I recall correctly, one of the devs mentioned a while back that maybe domed cities might be the way forward in that respect.

I've seen it mentioned a few times that the technology to implement full atmosphere landable planets might be too complex, however, I remember Braben suggesting at game launch that the tech was ready but they didn't want to release it without worthwhile gameplay. Yet when implemented we ended up with mind blowing gameplay such as driving around on barren planets that all look the same, scanning flora that all looks the same.

From what I gather, exploration is consistently flagged by the community as the most popular aspect of Elite Dangerous, yet it is by far in my opinion the most threadbare.

If 2025 plans are limited to colonisation as described; essentially space trucking, with some elements of base building, with the end result being the ability to administer a system with your name on it - well let just say I can see that becoming old pretty quickly and it might be time for this commander to retire.

Commander Lord Proton, active 1985 - 2025? Time will tell o7

Not to call into question the value of community intuition, but the several thousands of CMDRS within spitting distance of Sol suggests that Exploration is only the most popular aspect of ED amongst a small minority of the player base.

 

[marx]

Not to call into question the value of community intuition, but the several thousands of CMDRS within spitting distance of Sol suggests that Exploration is only the most popular aspect of ED amongst a small minority of the player base.

View attachment 417095

EDSM's not the best source there, for multiple reasons, but going by EDDN, it would seem that explorers are a large minority of players. For example, around 33% of FSD jumps and carrier jumps both are outside the bubble. (And ~70% of body scans, but no surprises that explorers would do much more of those.) Not The most popular activity in Elite, but probably still near the top - and the 1:1 scale, (mostly) realistic galaxy is a unique selling point, which no other game of similar quality offers.

 

[Koma Pahu]

EDSM's not the best source there, for multiple reasons, but going by EDDN, it would seem that explorers are a large minority of players. For example, around 33% of FSD jumps and carrier jumps both are outside the bubble. (And ~70% of body scans, but no surprises that explorers would do much more of those.) Not The most popular activity in Elite, but probably still near the top - and the 1:1 scale, (mostly) realistic galaxy is a unique selling point, which no other game of similar quality offers.

There’s also the fact that PP2.0 is still new and there will be people grinding away for their modules.