Custom Music

[Vampiro]

Im sorry to open up another thread about this as i know there are quite a few out there already.
Still i had the need to upen up another one so i can try to explain why i really want this feature in.

It was said earlyer in a Q&A that Custom Music was not planned at the moment.
A few days ago it was mentioned again and the reply was they had to think long and hard before they were going to introduce this feature.

To be honest i don't really get why this is such a difficult feature? The RCT3 system seemed to work fine to me, why is it so hard to do in PC?

At 99% of the subject Frontier really seems to know what we want and what's important, but for some reason they don't seem to get it with custom mosic.

When we enter a real life ride the first thing we see is ofcourse how does the ride look? Is it nicely themed? does it have a certain "atmosphere". Most important is ofcourse the ride itself, is it exiting, enjoyable, etc etc. Up till here Frontier seems to understand what we want a 100%.

But part of the "atmosphere" of a ride is the music. When you leave Disneyland, the song you will be singing (love it or hate it) is "It's a small world". Or when you visited Pirates, one of the things you will remember first is "yo-ho yo-ho a pirate's life for me" ...
And for all you fellow dutch people, when you visited Efteling, you will be hearing Carnaval Festival or Monsieur Cannibale for day's!

Thats just a few examples of how important the music is, it's almost a part of the scenery, it's part of the experience... a good ride NEEDS fitting music and a good themed que line NEEDS fitting music.

Now don't get me wrong, im sure Frontier will do their best to give us some perfect fitting music for each of their themes. Buts as we have seen already, the power of this game lies in what WE create with it, they provide the themes, we provide the "atmosphere". As good as their music will be, it can never be sufficient for all of our rides to cover all the "atmospheres" we want to create.

If this game's "goal" is to give us the freedom to build a park WE want (and besides this, they are doing an amazing job!) we really need this feature.

Let me think what you people think of it, and hopefully Frontier will realize this is a must have feature to (re)create the rides we really want to have.

 

[techen]

I was thinking about this for awhile and I don't think the issue is coding it in or making it work. I think its more due to copyright and law changes.

Remember back in the day you could have any music you wanted in youtube and no one would care? See how things have suddenly changed, Where you get strikes for having any big names in your videos. I think that there may be a law that if you record gameplay with say planet coaster in it and your rides have copywriten music in it, It may look bad on the company itself and there might be some crazy lawyers that might pick on the game rather than the person that did it.

That's what I think, More of a copyright issue.

 

[Vampiro]

I was thinking about this for awhile and I don't think the issue is coding it in or making it work. I think its more due to copyright and law changes.

Remember back in the day you could have any music you wanted in youtube and no one would care? See how things have suddenly changed, Where you get strikes for having any big names in your videos. I think that there may be a law that if you record gameplay with say planet coaster in it and your rides have copywriten music in it, It may look bad on the company itself and there might be some crazy lawyers that might pick on the game rather than the person that did it.

That's what I think, More of a copyright issue.

I have been thinking about that as well, but why should that be the issue?
Copyrights are only a problem when stuff is shared, when i just use my own mp3's that im -not- sharing there shouldn't be any problems with copyrights would there?
(Ofcourse the mp3 can not be shared if i share a park with someone or upload my park somewhere)

Coding doesn't seem to be the problem either. Or well, im not a programmer ofcourse but they could do it in RCT3 so why would it be much more difficult this time?

 

[0BobTheJanitor]

I think it's the sharing issue, in that sharing parks would mean having to disallow custom music, and disallowing sharing options to some isn't what Frontier wants to do. Plus, allowing sharing custom music would have legal issues with sharing songs, and perhaps innapropritate material could be shared too.

Then again, it could be coding issues, which I see as silly.

 

[Vampiro]

I think it's the sharing issue, in that sharing parks would mean having to disallow custom music, and disallowing sharing options to some isn't what Frontier wants to do. Plus, allowing sharing custom music would have legal issues with sharing songs, and perhaps innapropritate material could be shared too.

Then again, it could be coding issues, which I see as silly.

Im fully aware it can't be shared... due to copyrights.

But won't have Billboards the same problem? Not with copyrights but 18+ material -could- be used on billboards and then be shared.
To go the safe route, pictures and music should not be shared, which i even think would be kind of making sense...

 

[0BobTheJanitor]

That's my reasoningthey won't do it, because I don't think they want the option to disable sharing, either you can share or not if you don't want to; the option of never sharing being disallowed.

 

[Nolfy]

+99999

I really hope they add custom music with speakers and custom ride music (continuously playing option) in the next update.

I don't see why copyright would be a big issue. It just needs to work like RCT3 where the game remembers where the music is stored (oh and please let us choose music also outside the Windows documents folder). If someone else visits that park or downloads the savegame the music would be silent or replaced with standard music (for rides the same music as we have now and for speakers the PC theme) if that person doesn't have those music files.

The only thing they need to add is an extra checkbox in the menu (like RCT3) with a small legal agreement to enable custom music. This mostly for Twitch, Youtube streamers and so on. In this case there is no gray area when custom music is used within the game when streaming or uploading videos about it. These agreements also exist (but embedded differently) in games like GTA5 and Metal Gear Solid V which also have the option to play custom music.
And yeah.. billboards can be also an issue if ppl start using real logo's and such.


So Dev's, no need to think about it anymore [big grin]

These people also want custom music:
https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4439-Horror-Scenery-Theme-and-Custom-Music-For-Rides

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4425-Loudspeakers

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4071-rides-music

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4078-Sync-music-to-roller-coasters!

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3618-Speakers-and-Audio

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/sh...-you-add-music-sounds-to-the-rides-or-coaster

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3412-Customizable-content

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3199-Loudspeakers

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2717-Park-Speakers-w-Adjustable-Music

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2473-mp3-support-for-rides

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2203-Mp-3-Audio-Files

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2015-My-feedback-after-playing-4-hours

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/1629-Radio-and-Music-playing

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/311-Custom-Music

https://www.reddit.com/r/PlanetCoas...estion_give_us_a_folder_to_put_our_own_music/

Also saw custom music requests on the FB page, but it would take me the whole afternoon to include those.

 

[techen]

You are comparing a what, 10 year old game to now? Laws change buddy. I wouldn't compare anything to RCT3 because we know who owns those rights.

If they don't want to do it, We should never pressure them. Let them build the alpha first

 

[ManiaMuse]

+99999

I really hope they add custom music with speakers and custom ride music (continuously playing option) in the next update.

I don't see why copyright would be a big issue. It just needs to work like RCT3 where the game remembers where the music is stored (oh and please let us choose music also outside the Windows documents folder). If someone else visits that park or downloads the savegame the music would be silent or replaced with standard music (for rides the same music as we have now and for speakers the PC theme) if that person doesn't have those music files.

The only thing they need to add is an extra checkbox in the menu (like RCT3) with a small legal agreement to enable custom music. This mostly for Twitch, Youtube streamers and so on. In this case there is no gray area when custom music is used within the game when streaming or uploading videos about it. These agreements also exist (but embedded differently) in games like GTA5 and Metal Gear Solid V which also have the option to play custom music.
And yeah.. billboards can be also an issue if ppl start using real logo's and such.


So Dev's, no need to think about it anymore [big grin]

These people also want custom music:
https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4439-Horror-Scenery-Theme-and-Custom-Music-For-Rides

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4425-Loudspeakers

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4071-rides-music

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4078-Sync-music-to-roller-coasters!

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3618-Speakers-and-Audio

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/sh...-you-add-music-sounds-to-the-rides-or-coaster

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3412-Customizable-content

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3199-Loudspeakers

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2717-Park-Speakers-w-Adjustable-Music

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2473-mp3-support-for-rides

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2203-Mp-3-Audio-Files

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2015-My-feedback-after-playing-4-hours

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/1629-Radio-and-Music-playing

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/311-Custom-Music

https://www.reddit.com/r/PlanetCoas...estion_give_us_a_folder_to_put_our_own_music/

Also saw custom music requests on the FB page, but it would take me the whole afternoon to include those.

Yes, yes we get your point that people want it. However that doesn't change the fact that there is a major copyright issue which Frontier are probably keen to avoid at all costs because these things can get ridiculously expensive if one of the music publishers decides to take you to court. Some of the music publishers are very hot on taking things down on Youtube (particularly Warner/Chappell) and they employ plenty of people to try and prevent music being shared illegally.

I'm assuming that the sharing facility is going to be available through the Steam Cloud and that brings a whole host of issues as then Steam could potentially be held liable for sharing music illegally. They probably have some blanket policy against user music content it if you want to release a game through Steam.

RCT3 didn't have a sharing facility built into it so it wasn't really Frontier/Atari's problem if you saved a game with some copyrighted music, uploaded/emailed it and then someone else downloaded it.

I'm sure there will be a workaround to edit the music through altering the game files or something like that but it won't be part of an official release unless Frontier signs an agreement with a music streaming service or something but that could be tricky to implement smoothly.

 

[Vampiro]

Yes, yes we get your point that people want it. However that doesn't change the fact that there is a major copyright issue which Frontier are probably keen to avoid at all costs because these things can get ridiculously expensive if one of the music publishers decides to take you to court. Some of the music publishers are very hot on taking things down on Youtube (particularly Warner/Chappell) and they employ plenty of people to try and prevent music being shared illegally.

I'm assuming that the sharing facility is going to be available through the Steam Cloud and that brings a whole host of issues as then Steam could potentially be held liable for sharing music illegally. They probably have some blanket policy against user music content it if you want to release a game through Steam.

RCT3 didn't have a sharing facility built into it so it wasn't really Frontier/Atari's problem if you saved a game with some copyrighted music, uploaded/emailed it and then someone else downloaded it.

I'm sure there will be a workaround to edit the music through altering the game files or something like that but it won't be part of an official release unless Frontier signs an agreement with a music streaming service or something but that could be tricky to implement smoothly.

I really don't get it ...

As long as the music isn't shared, and i use my own music... there is no legal issue is there?
There are only issue's when copyrighted music is shared.

If it's done in the same way as it was done in RCT3 there is no problem, no music is shared. Thus no legal issue's.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

+99999

I really hope they add custom music with speakers and custom ride music (continuously playing option) in the next update.

I don't see why copyright would be a big issue. It just needs to work like RCT3 where the game remembers where the music is stored (oh and please let us choose music also outside the Windows documents folder). If someone else visits that park or downloads the savegame the music would be silent or replaced with standard music (for rides the same music as we have now and for speakers the PC theme) if that person doesn't have those music files.

The only thing they need to add is an extra checkbox in the menu (like RCT3) with a small legal agreement to enable custom music. This mostly for Twitch, Youtube streamers and so on. In this case there is no gray area when custom music is used within the game when streaming or uploading videos about it. These agreements also exist (but embedded differently) in games like GTA5 and Metal Gear Solid V which also have the option to play custom music.
And yeah.. billboards can be also an issue if ppl start using real logo's and such.


So Dev's, no need to think about it anymore [big grin]

These people also want custom music:
https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4439-Horror-Scenery-Theme-and-Custom-Music-For-Rides

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4425-Loudspeakers

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4071-rides-music

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/4078-Sync-music-to-roller-coasters!

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3618-Speakers-and-Audio

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/sh...-you-add-music-sounds-to-the-rides-or-coaster

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3412-Customizable-content

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/3199-Loudspeakers

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2717-Park-Speakers-w-Adjustable-Music

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2473-mp3-support-for-rides

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2203-Mp-3-Audio-Files

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/2015-My-feedback-after-playing-4-hours

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/1629-Radio-and-Music-playing

https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/311-Custom-Music

https://www.reddit.com/r/PlanetCoas...estion_give_us_a_folder_to_put_our_own_music/

Also saw custom music requests on the FB page, but it would take me the whole afternoon to include those.

Thanks for this!

I know we can't do more then to ask for a certain feature.. but i REALLY think this is a must have feature. ah well...i tried to explain it when i opened this thread.
hopefully Frontier will realize this and add the feature.

 

[Angelis1]

I really don't get it ...

As long as the music isn't shared, and i use my own music... there is no legal issue is there?
There are only issue's when copyrighted music is shared.

If it's done in the same way as it was done in RCT3 there is no problem, no music is shared. Thus no legal issue's.

Yes, but if your park is shared, you music is shared too.

I will try to explain.
This is not a problem with the custom music only, but any form of custom content in the game.

EXEMPLE : You create a park, imagine you're in my friend list in the game, so your avatar appears on the planet when I start the game. In the park you have created, you use custom content (no matter what type). Conclusion ? Two possibilities :

1) I download all your park but also your custom content, and there is some copyright issues
2) I download all your park but not your custom content, and some "pieces" of your park are missing

The "social features" of this game game make Planet Coaster can not be conceived as RCT3.

This is why UGC (any form of user generated content : 2D, 3D, Audio, etc...) should not be considered in the same way as in the past (something created by "modders", on the sidelines of the game) and should not be added "after release", but as a real part of the game, during the "Phase 3" of the alpha, allowing users to import all the content they want (as long as it is a true creation), on an official and unique controlled platform ! This will allow players from around the world to download, a virtually unlimited number of custom content of any sort (including music creations too), without problems of compatibility between versions, always virus free, without copyright problems, allowing them to share their park, with 100% of the content, with whom they want.

And if you still want to import some illegal things (like a "hans zimmer music" for your ride, or the statue of "mickey mouse") then, in this case, you ask the modding community to make an illegal importer like the old day if you want (In fact, I don't care, I'm not interested)



PS : It would be great to create content for such a platform, knowing that the law allows to create parodies of existing brands, like a "Cola-Coka" sign, an animatronic of "Gaspard the Ghost", or the 3D statue of each "Samurai Turtles : Donaldo, Antonino, Marcelangelo, and Ramon" [rolleyes]

 

[Kenneth1]

I don't believe music will be carried on with the UGC. That seems very unlikely

 

[Angelis1]

I don't believe music will be carried on with the UGC. That seems very unlikely

Music is one of the many forms of "User Generated Content".

 

[ManiaMuse]

Music is one of the many forms of "User Generated Content".

A form surrounded by a much larger and more frequently applied web of laws regarding copyright.

You can demand it all you like, but Frontier would have to make sure that their sharing hub is able to filter and remove all illegally uploaded music. Yes audio recognition systems have moved on a lot in past years, but I don't think any system can claim to be 100% effective at catching every illegally shared song at the moment. And it could only takes one illegally uploaded song to get on the Planet Coaster servers for the legal hawks to potentially get involved.

It really isn't as simple an issue as some are making out, even Twitch removes copyrighted music from past broadcasts these days, just not live streams.

 

[Angelis1]

A form surrounded by a much larger and more frequently applied web of laws regarding copyright.

You can demand it all you like, but Frontier would have to make sure that their sharing hub is able to filter and remove all illegally uploaded music. Yes audio recognition systems have moved on a lot in past years, but I don't think any system can claim to be 100% effective at catching every illegally shared song at the moment. And it could only takes one illegally uploaded song to get on the Planet Coaster servers for the legal hawks to potentially get involved.

It really isn't as simple an issue as some are making out, even Twitch removes copyrighted music from past broadcasts these days, just not live streams.

Indeed.

A manual "a posteriori" moderation by the community (With a "report" button) + a second manual "a posteriori" moderation by the moderation team is needed.
The "volunteer moderators" system might also work perfectly for example.

It's not something new, or an insurmountable problem.
Every platforms on the internet, using content provided by users, are able to find solutions for the copyright management. [yesnod]

 

[Vampiro]

Yes, but if your park is shared, you music is shared too.

I will try to explain.
This is not a problem with the custom music only, but any form of custom content in the game.

EXEMPLE : You create a park, imagine you're in my friend list in the game, so your avatar appears on the planet when I start the game. In the park you have created, you use custom content (no matter what type). Conclusion ? Two possibilities :

1) I download all your park but also your custom content, and there is some copyright issues
2) I download all your park but not your custom content, and some "pieces" of your park are missing

The "social features" of this game game make Planet Coaster can not be conceived as RCT3.

You are totally right about the copyrights and things.

But personally i dont know why it's such a big deal the music can't be shared. When talking about UGC i get what you mean. When you load a complete park and a lot parts are missing, there is no point in sharing. But ofcourse the difference is copyrights...

But why is it such a big deal to not share the music?
In my opinion (just my opinion) it would be stupid to exclude an important feature because it can't be shared. 98% of the time i will be playing and building my own park.
And when someone else is downloading my park well, they can still hear the in-game music. Now i know it's a shame they can't experience my ride 100% the way it was ment to be, but if you don't include this feature i myself won't even be able to experience the ride to the fullest. [cry]

 

[Angelis1]

You are totally right about the copyrights and things.

But personally i dont know why it's such a big deal the music can't be shared. When talking about UGC i get what you mean. When you load a complete park and a lot parts are missing, there is no point in sharing. But ofcourse the difference is copyrights...

But why is it such a big deal to not share the music?
In my opinion (just my opinion) it would be stupid to exclude an important feature because it can't be shared. 98% of the time i will be playing and building my own park.
And when someone else is downloading my park well, they can still hear the in-game music. Now i know it's a shame they can't experience my ride 100% the way it was ment to be, but if you don't include this feature i myself won't even be able to experience the ride to the fullest. [cry]

Because ... The law ... [where is it]

But anyway ... with the "UGC library" solution (If they choose this solution for the management of custom content), I can guarantee you that there will be literally thousands and thousands of free and legal "music and sounds", in lots of different themes and style, that we can use in your building/rides/park speakers, after just few weeks of existence.

The library could be filled with :
- Music and sounds composed by the audio team of Frontier (Official content)
- Music and sounds composed by the players (UGC)

But also :
- Existing royalty free music (with "non-commercial" and "non-profit" licensing)
- Open source / Creativecommons music (if Frontier allow us to give credit to the source in the library)
- Music from partnership with artists (famous or not)
- Music from the public domain (copyright expired)

With all that, the library would quickly so full, you could not listen to all in a lifetime. [big grin]

OR ...

They could choose the "offline" solution (with an MP3 importer like the old day, like in RCT3), but the counterpart is severe : impossible to download a complete park, impossible to visit a park online, etc...

OR ...

Both :
- If you activate the "online" function, the "Custom Content" (from your computer is "grayed") and you need to use the official content and the UGC available at the library
- If you desactivate the "online" function, you can use any kind of content you want (textures, 3D objets, music, logo, anything from your computer) but all the social and online features will be deactivated for this specific park

 

[Vampiro]

Because ... The law ... [where is it]

But anyway ... with the "UGC library" solution (If they choose this solution for the management of custom content), I can guarantee you that there will be literally thousands and thousands of free and legal "music and sounds", in lots of different themes and style, that we can use in your building/rides/park speakers, after just few weeks of existence.

The library could be filled with :
- Music and sounds composed by the audio team of Frontier (Official content)
- Music and sounds composed by the players (UGC)

But also :
- Existing royalty free music (with "non-commercial" and "non-profit" licensing)
- Open source / Creativecommons music (if Frontier allow us to give credit to the source in the library)
- Music from partnership with artists (famous or not)
- Music from the public domain (copyright expired)

With all that, the library would quickly so full, you could not listen to all in a lifetime. [big grin]

OR ...

They could choose the "offline" solution (with an MP3 importer like the old day, like in RCT3), but the counterpart is severe : impossible to download a complete park, impossible to visit a park online, etc...

OR ...

Both :
- If you activate the "online" function, the "Custom Content" (from your computer is "grayed") and you need to use the official content and the UGC available at the library
- If you desactivate the "online" function, you can use any kind of content you want (textures, 3D objets, music, logo, anything from your computer) but all the social and online features will be deactivated for this specific park

Heheh, I understand the "the law" answer. Once again English not being my native language bit me ... Ofcourse i know sharing music is not allowed by law

I do however really like your last option! Let's just choose if you want to have a shareable park or not. If i DO share it, i can't use Custom Music or when i don't share i can use my own mp3's just like in RCT3. Or actually thats quite the same as just not sharing the music.
That really sounds like the best option...

As once again, the whole reason why i started this thread is because i think Disney's Pirates would not be the same without the "yo-ho yoho a pirates life for me" nor would "It's a small world" be the same without the "It's a small world" theme. And i can name quite a few of those example's. Some theme's are just part of the ride experience... And i really want to have that in my PC park as well

 

[Periocus]

I am one of those users dreaming about custom music while ride sequences.

While disussing things, looking at RCTW, working with Parkitect and reading here i think i understand meanwhile what the problem is.
Planet coaster has to be stable first. Meaning all bugs fixed, even after full release. Why?

There is already a problem i guess. All those people using the little content to make beautiful things, but what if the small guests suddenly say: "Wild West Theme" at "Fantasyland Pizza" makes me unhappy as it is with RCT 3 already.
What if people use massiv UGC/music and the code has to be changed. Suddenly it does not appear in the game anymore.
People have a massiv problem sharing their park due to huge amount of data or the UGC causes problems overall.

Planet Coaster is all about a good experience and beauty. I guess that is why they like to talk about it as much as having a flu at the moment (sorry). How shall we tell them that it will be like with RCT 3 or it will take lots more time to ensure that UGC will not destroy the experience.

It will come, because it still keeps RCT 3 (and will keep) alive after all those years, but it will take time.

 

[Angelis1]

Heheh, I understand the "the law" answer. Once again English not being my native language bit me ... Ofcourse i know sharing music is not allowed by law

I do however really like your last option! Let's just choose if you want to have a shareable park or not. If i DO share it, i can't use Custom Music or when i don't share i can use my own mp3's just like in RCT3. Or actually thats quite the same as just not sharing the music.
That really sounds like the best option...

I think the last is the best option too.

And anyway, the "offline importer" can be added very easily.
So if they take the first solution, nothing prevents that they provides both at the end.

[...] There is already a problem i guess. All those people using the little content to make beautiful things, but what if the small guests suddenly say: "Wild West Theme" at "Fantasyland Pizza" makes me unhappy as it is with RCT 3 already.
What if people use massiv UGC/music and the code has to be changed. Suddenly it does not appear in the game anymore.
People have a massiv problem sharing their park due to huge amount of data or the UGC causes problems overall. [...]

Indeed.

This is why I support the idea of an official online custom content library natively in the game, more than the old offline "importer" (like they did in RCTW)

With the UGC library, no need to worry if the theme is in the good category/theme, etc ... because you can check these things when you select the setting of the object. Everything is classified, stored, in a database used by all players, and the "missing music" can not be a problem [yesnod][up]