David Braben comments on VR [gamedaily.biz article]

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

I really doubt FD don't realize how much ED owes to VR. I doubt they will drop VR support in any case.

I didn't see anything in what Braben said that suggested they woulddrop VR, and I wouldn't read too much into the article. VR is a niche product for dedicated gamers. So are space sims a niche product in terms of the general gaming market, which is dominated by casual gamers who play on mobile devices.

FDev has clearly put a lot of effort into getting VR right, and it works really well. I agree with Braben's assessment that we need higher resolution for VR to be truly comfortable and immersive, and that this will require more powerful graphics cards, which for the time being keeps VR as a niche market. I think Braben was speaking from the point of view of someone running a software house and who can see that the majority of people playing his games will not be using VR. And I don't really see anything controversial in that.

 

[WeirdWizard]

What type of post is that? First you say I’m a dreamer, then your next example talks about the development of gaming computers. You do realize today’s reality was yesterday’s dream? Early adapters always spearhead changes. It’s the transition from early adapters to mainstream that truly matter. I could see a situation arise where VR is stuck in that transition. Unlike computer development, which benefited the whole sector, VR doesn’t.

but, more on your point. VR today has you basically wearing a ski mask with headphones. While more immersive than a monitor, it is not totally immersive. More work is required, for instance we should be able to fly via hand controllers and press interactive buttons in game. It’s just not there yet. And if VR doesn’t transition to mainstream, funding will run out, as no one chases minimal ROI.

My point is that being a dreamer who doesn't use what currently there because they're imagining how much better it'll be in the future is a foolish attitude. Case in point you go on to call VR "basically a ski mask with headphones" and complain that it isn't "totally immersive" like that matters? Or is in any way a realistic expectation to have. VR is great now, today, at it's current level of development. Yes more work is required to reach "total immersion" and it will be for decades to come, but that's no reason for people not to use it for what it can do today. It's like saying "yeah cars are interesting but until they can fly I just don't see the point."

 

[jmp470]

My point is that being a dreamer who doesn't use what currently there because they're imagining how much better it'll be in the future is a foolish attitude. Case in point you go on to call VR "basically a ski mask with headphones" and complain that it isn't "totally immersive" like that matters? Or is in any way a realistic expectation to have. VR is great now, today, at it's current level of development. Yes more work is required to reach "total immersion" and it will be for decades to come, but that's no reason for people not to use it for what it can do today. It's like saying "yeah cars are interesting but until they can fly I just don't see the point."

what your saying was exactly my point, I remember standing in line for the first iPhone and iPad. I was an early adapter, for my own reasons, but, those products could have failed if their wasn’t a line behind me. As an early adopter, such as yourself in VR, it’s hard to not understand why others are not excited as you are. This was me with the iPhone and iPad. After my early adapter days in Apple I told myself I will never be an early adopter again. It’s expensive.

 

[WeirdWizard]

what your saying was exactly my point, I remember standing in line for the first iPhone and iPad. I was an early adapter, for my own reasons, but, those products could have failed if their wasn’t a line behind me. As an early adopter, such as yourself in VR, it’s hard to not understand why others are not excited as you are. This was me with the iPhone and iPad. After my early adapter days in Apple I told myself I will never be an early adopter again. It’s expensive.

Fair enough, I was lucky enough to have a Dad who was an early adopter of home computers back in the 1980s and it has shaped my entire life. I've ridden the wave of computer and video game development ever since and found every stage to be worth it.

Its one thing to say VR is too expensive and I'd happily debate that point to an extent. But to say it isn't good enough yet, which is DB's and I thought your argument, because it doesn't live up to an imagined futuristic standard is the point I take issue with.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

what your saying was exactly my point, I remember standing in line for the first iPhone and iPad. I was an early adapter, for my own reasons, but, those products could have failed if their wasn’t a line behind me. As an early adopter, such as yourself in VR, it’s hard to not understand why others are not excited as you are. This was me with the iPhone and iPad. After my early adapter days in Apple I told myself I will never be an early adopter again. It’s expensive.

I just can’t understand why you would send your VR back and use a pathetic 2d monitor. 2D gaming is utterly boring rubbish. It’s not a problem with Gen 1 VR more you inability to adapt and overcome.

 

[The Lawful]

Well, DBOBE is right on the niche aspect and then on the improvable experience of the first-gen VR systems available today. It cannot be denied. It's true we got low resolution and screen door effects and all, and the required hardware is rather expensive and most games don't need it. Then, VR is always a risk, as you never know if you are prone to VR sickness or not. Most of my friends and my wife are. That's a fact. Could be I've been just lucky and enthusiastic enough. Most people don't even have a HOTAS, as today very few games make use of it. Were it not for DCS, I wouldn't have had to buy one for years, until ED arrived.

But then, it's the same thing as with, let's say, Raxxla. I think it's about dreams and what price you're willing to pay for them. Cyberspace has always fascinated me, and I really really wanted to fly a plane in a virtual world for since I can't remember. It took quite some time until I had everything together, but then, DCS was a blast. Same with ED. VR changes everything if you're willing to pay. Sitting here in front of my 15.6" notebook & a T.Flight X (as I'm in my summer holidays and my rig is far away), playing ED in 2D at low res and details (and boy, my eyes aren't getting better), I simply realize again I want the best sim experience I can get in my lifetime, and ED delivers it. So whatever DBOBE may think about VR, I'm glad he had some far-sighted guys around him who made ED deliver true experiences anyway. It makes all the difference, and for me, it's what ED will be remembered for one day.

O7,
[noob]

Heh, remember Falcon 3.0? 320x200 VGA res, but felt real enough in 1992

 

[jmp470]

I just can’t understand why you would send your VR back and use a pathetic 2d monitor. 2D gaming is utterly boring rubbish. It’s not a problem with Gen 1 VR more you inability to adapt and overcome.

I side the 49” Samsung gaming monitor. It is amazing for the types of games I play. The only draw back is it is not 4K, it’s 1080P. I have a 43” 4K monitor that’s literally collecting dust.

I love, love, love the 49” curved monitor. I use it to trade stocks too.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

I side the 49” Samsung gaming monitor. It is amazing for the types of games I play. The only draw back is it is not 4K, it’s 1080P. I have a 43” 4K monitor that’s literally collecting dust.

I love, love, love the 49” curved monitor. I use it to trade stocks too.

Been there and done that. Totally underwhelming 2d, pixie window rubbish, imo.

 

[jmp470]

Been there and done that. Totally underwhelming 2d, pixie window rubbish, imo.

thats the beauty of today’s society. We have options and are allowed to do as we please. You are free to live VR, and I’m free to say it needs more development before I buy in. Bottom line, we are both right from our view points. Another great thing about today’s society


FYI, I’m just more right than you. ;-)

joking

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

thats the beauty of today’s society. We have options and are allowed to do as we please. You are free to live VR, and I’m free to say it needs more development before I buy in. Bottom line, we are both right from our view points. Another great thing about today’s society


FYI, I’m just more right than you. ;-)

joking

What can I say? It’s the choice between sitting in the cockpit of a spaceship versus flaying a drone.

 

[jmp470]

What can I say? It’s the choice between sitting in the cockpit of a spaceship versus flaying a drone.

Not really. As sitting in my airplane is interactive. And flying my Inspire 1 is watching from a far, or flying my iPhone with my head down.

ED is like sitting in an airplane while having the tactile response of flying a drone.

This is could be changed if the body was more dynamic in ED. Right now I’m VR it like sitting in a wheel chair with the only moving parts are your arms. Every interaction with your ship happens through a 3rd party. Nothing like interacting with an airplane.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Not really. As sitting in my airplane is interactive. And flying my Inspire 1 is watching from a far, or flying my iPhone with my head down.

ED is like sitting in an airplane while having the tactile response of flying a drone.

This is could be changed if the body was more dynamic in ED. Right now I’m VR it like sitting in a wheel chair with the only moving parts are your arms. Every interaction with your ship happens through a 3rd party. Nothing like interacting with an airplane.

Sort of (although Holocab seeks to address that somewhat). But XPlane 11 has fully (well mostly) interactive cockpits in VR. There is an important distinction still of course, it is a "virtual" realty not a "real" reality. But with VR you are put into the virtual environment where as any regular monitor can only project a moving picture of a virtual environment.

 

[jmp470]

Sort of (although Holocab seeks to address that somewhat). But XPlane 11 has fully (well mostly) interactive cockpits in VR. There is an important distinction still of course, it is a "virtual" realty not a "real" reality. But with VR you are put into the virtual environment where as any regular monitor can only project a moving picture of a virtual environment.

Off topic, but, the Bell 429 and Airwolf are awesome to play in a plane 11. Especially, down low in the mountains.

Xplane11 is the main reason I want to try the Vive pro. But, Oculus might be better due to the controllers.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Off topic, but, the Bell 429 and Airwolf are awesome to play in a plane 11. Especially, down low in the mountains.

Xplane11 is the main reason I want to try the Vive pro. But, Oculus might be better due to the controllers.

Airwolf?! Now we're talking. Though I doubt it'll have a fully interactive VR cockpit sadly, most extra aircraft don't yet. XPlane 11 GBPro ground cover and Ortho4xp textures all in VR with motion controllers is a genuinely astonishing experience. It leaves every flight sim experience I've ever had prior to VR in the dust.

I find the Vive wands actually work really well as virtual joysticks, but I'm also looking forward to the knuckles controllers in the short term and some of the haptic force feedback gloves that are being worked on at the moment in the longer term.

 

[BigDuke6ixx]

Not really. As sitting in my airplane is interactive. And flying my Inspire 1 is watching from a far, or flying my iPhone with my head down.

ED is like sitting in an airplane while having the tactile response of flying a drone.

This is could be changed if the body was more dynamic in ED. Right now I’m VR it like sitting in a wheel chair with the only moving parts are your arms. Every interaction with your ship happens through a 3rd party. Nothing like interacting with an airplane.

Right, so your complaint about VR now is the lack of gforce. Well, I guess you'll be flying your little pixie window for the rest of your life then.

 

[jmp470]

Right, so your complaint about VR now is the lack of gforce. Well, I guess you'll be flying your little pixie window for the rest of your life then.

Im not complaining about anything. I’m simply stating why I’m not shelling out money for VR in its current form.

 

[Gortron]

Im not complaining about anything. I’m simply stating why I’m not shelling out money for VR in its current form.

This is a bit confusing. Do you have VR now and if so what don't you like about it? It seems like you don't have VR but have formed an opinion based on other peoples experiences? That is a thoroughly reasonable approach except for things you can only experience or understand in person don't translate in VR.

 

[Cliché]

...It's true we got low resolution and screen door effects and all, and the required hardware is rather expensive and most games don't need it.

I'd happily give up resolution/realism for a wider FOV, as long as I can still read the text and everything isn't blurry. So if the next gen is wider FOV and sharper, but same pixel density, that would be great. I probably wouldn't need to upgrade my GPU either. But add 4K and a new GPU would be even better.

Then, VR is always a risk, as you never know if you are prone to VR sickness or not. Most of my friends and my wife are. That's a fact.

Just curious if that is after showing them a roller coaster demo, or is that after trying Lucky's Tale too? Anyway, it seems to be something you can become accustomed to if you just take it slow and easy.

Heh, remember Falcon 3.0? 320x200 VGA res, but felt real enough in 1992

Yeah, but it was at least VGA graphics (640x480). The padlock view was great, but nobody ever really did it right, at least that I experienced. But in VR that is just not an issue at all.



Anyhoo, after a short week back in VR playing ATS, it looks so much better. Increasing PD to 2.0 helped, but just getting used to VR again makes a huge difference. It only looks bad in wide open deserts, and in forests and in cities things look sharp. But I still can't read the road signs until I'm just about passing them, mostly due to blurriness than resolution, as far as I can tell. I'm seriously tempted to look for a 39" class curved monitor for $500-600 on Black Friday, just to experience high resolution graphics again, even if I only end up using it to launch games in VR.

 

[=71st=RuSh]

Tired of the ED grind and talking of Mass Effect, I have been immersed in ME Andromeda in the last months and it's a super game, with a lot of main and secondary stories, and very detailed stations, ships, characters and worlds.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Yeah, but it was at least VGA graphics (640x480). The padlock view was great, but nobody ever really did it right, at least that I experienced. But in VR that is just not an issue at all.

Pretty sure 640x480 was SVGA no? Or it may of been supported by VGA but only in 16 colours as opposed to the 256 colours 320x200 VGA standard.

But yes FOV is probably the easiest win for improving the current headsets, though I would expect a pixel density bump at the same time when we see gen 2 arrive.