DBOBE and 'the grind'

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

A lot of ED progression could be an order of magnitude more engaging, though.

Lot of ED activities could be more engaging and yes, I agree, there's potential there which FD slowly uncovers. Maybe not as fast we want, but it feels ok for mere casual.

For example, I would find it really cool to unlock better drives for my Courier by getting better at flying my Courier. Like by having to complete some kind of space or surface mission delivery thing in a given time, coping with increasingly difficult obstacles in the process. I don't mean supercruise, I mean piloting. Anyone remember a good racing game whereby successful time trialling unlocked better stuff you could then use in the Grand Prix? This is all very straightforward and popular because it works. By unlocking better drives you'd then make it possible to get a better time, potentially unlocking even better drives. This is a typical practice/reward tree.

Unfortunately far too often in ED the unlock is available - often, only available, subject to the incoming Materials Trader - by simply performing a single repetitive task over and over and over again, without using higher brain functions, nor fine motor control. Just clicking, basically, then waiting out a time gate, then clicking again. (It's usually slightly masked, but that's all it truly amounts to.)

I used the example above of racing but I've seen that many explorers would really like mechanics that reward them for actually getting better at exploring. I'm sure there are many other examples.

I haven't seen such mechanics in many games which doesn't turn down into same grind people despite much. Also ED is experience game, not progression and achievement game. Figurately speaking repeated gameplay is an essence of ED. Only way it can be improved is improving that gameplay loop that repeats. But it still boils down to grind if you push it too hard.

ED has no experience model nor XP values to back any such rewards nor it is desgined to be that way. ED has no strategic inklings many people crave these days - mostly it because allows them to cut down some time strategically and get to stuff they want quicker.

 

[Muetdhiver]

...I haven't seen such mechanics in many games which doesn't turn down into same grind people despite much. Also ED is experience game, not progression and achievement game. Figurately speaking repeated gameplay is an essence of ED. Only way it can be improved is improving that gameplay loop that repeats. But it still boils down to grind if you push it too hard....

A big lesson that Table Top RPG's learned is : Railroading is very, very bad for player engagement.

The Second lesson is that preping a choose your own adventure branching mess is very, very bad for GM prep time and prep efficiency.

The Third is that simply giving at least three distinct way to go from node A to node B is enough, so is a 5by5 scenario in most cases.

My tip : For every item behind a progression system put three ways to get there. ED is riddled with progression where there is one single path from A to B.
Case in point : engineering material collection. For some materials it's HGE farming or pray RNJesus for the reward you look for in missions. Go farm or go home => very bad for engagement.

Last : even if a progression is grindy, being able to alterate between three different ways and gameplay loops to advance it is way, way better than having only one.
Especially if the loops are enjoyable and reasonnably challenging.

 

[ilo]

My tip : For every item behind a progression system put three ways to get there.

Done!!!
We named them: open/private/solo

 

[Vorxian]

The term 'grind' is really coined if the content being force-fed is linear, non-engaging, repetitive and samey, and there's no avoiding it. Aka: if you want A, then you have to do v,w,x,y,z - approximately 750 times.

I mean, that is a cop out... it's lazy design.

What would be better is instead of the v,w,x,y,z - approximately 750 times approach, why is it so difficult in 2018 to game an engaging mission arc? One with challenge, excitement, and a sense of fulfillment? Would be so easy for say Imperial rank gain to be a mission arc to interrupt and assassinate an adversary, or traitor, but have to track him down talking to various contacts, finally ending in a gate crash, and an epic battle? That to me should be how one ranks up in the navy. Not delivering the same love letter 300 times.

 

[AsukaZ]

Just going from the OP and OA's response ..

I think (hope) there may be an issue of context here.

If DBOBE uses 'grind' to mean 'activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result' then yeah, I understand what he's talking about and take it the devs use it as a kind of shorthand.

But if he's using it in the full sense of 'activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result that is lacking in interest or excitement and requires a great deal of effort' then I just think 'Sheesh, is this what computer gaming has come to ?'