DDF and their "god-like powers"

[GJ51]

Which is why everytime I feel the urge to get one of those new Lifetime Season Passes, with no content specified for each season or how many seasons there will be (let alone an outline of the additional content that will be in Horizons), I come looking for one of these threads to remind myself why I should/will never buy one. Not a DDF member, came in at Beta, but given the track record I won't be trusting FD with anymore money until I see a finished "season" on the market, and get reliable hands-on reviews of it and its content.

Sorta feel the same way, but I do enjoy playing and have a ton of time and money invested into ED. In spite of my disapproval of some of their disingenuous behaviors, I still haven't lost sight or appreciation for the remarkable achievement and value the game represents. I don't mind throwing a few coins at them now and then if it keeps development progressing, even if I don't always agree with everything they do. For now it's the only game in town.

I also think that healthy discussions of the topic does have some influence and may improve future behaviors as long as most posts are presenting well thought out and rational arguments. Simple emotional vitriolic outbursts have no weight, but I think if you read many of the posts you can find very cogent and relevant presentastions that may influence future decisions made by FD.

They read.

I don't think they see a thread like this as a major problem, but I do think some at FD will reflect upon the discussion and see merit where appropriate.

One can hope.

 

[jabokai]

The devs did state that the issues discussed might or might not ever make the game, were not promises of features, and that they should be considered non-existent until they did show up.

Pretty sure they didn't state anything that transparent before the process started. If they had, I would not have bothered with the DDF at all. As it is we collectively wasted thousands of hours, probably several man years as a whole.

I think some people considered the arguments as too heated. Which I find ironic. The people I love the most on these here forums are the people I argued (and still argue) with the most as well.

Disagreement, even heated, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I agree, I enjoy a heated debate much more than bland agreement. So, what I'm saying is that replying to your post here, and agreeing with. is deeply unsatisfying.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Pretty sure they didn't state anything that transparent before the process started. If they had, I would not have bothered with the DDF at all. As it is we collectively wasted thousands of hours, probably several man years as a whole.

Transparency is not one of FD's core competencies.

I thought it was pretty clear that we were not going to make any real decisions, but I do not recall exactly when that clarity arrived, and cannot be bothered to try to find out. Certainly I do not recall any discontent over how the DDF started to work, so that clarity must have come pretty early. In that sense, I have no complaint about the DDF.

What was also pretty clear was that the DDF WAS discussing what the game would be, other than the inevitable changes that happen when paper plans meet reality. See Sandro's standard disclaimer which was 'this is our intent' but added sensible caveats. Those posters who manage to present a positive FD PoV on everything really annoy me when they interrupt threads with their 'But FD never promised the DDF, so the fact we have so little of it is fine' nonsense. FD never gave any indication about how much of the DDF was going to be in the game on day 1. I spent most of my working life as a product manager for business software, and know how that goes, so I certainly never expected anything close to all of it. But I was shocked to find how little there was when I came back from skipping the end of beta an the gamma to find virtually no change. That was, I think, the inevitable consequences of a fixed deadline for commercial reasons, and delivering less content than planned where all the extra effort to get a working lump of network code probably sucked resources away from content.

I also feel a bit narked about how it all ended: deadlines for topics being pushed back, topics not appearing at all, and then silence. Again, FD never indicated anything about how long the DDF would run, but I expected it to last longer than it did. Even when it was in full flow, and apparently working well, I wondered if we would see topics about he expansions. I still cannot understand why they binned the DDF, however. They had to have the designs in place anyway, so waving them at the DDF was not that much effort. I was not an enormous task to monitor the DDF discussions (that is, hours rather than days per topic), and sometimes an unexpected groundswell of a negative reaction appeared (as it did to the microjumps to rooms in space). Fixing that before coding is orders of magnitude cheaper than building the wrong thing and then trying to fix it retrospectively. In my line of business, we would not dream of writing design docs and starting work on them without passing them past the 'domain experts'. Surely the response to powerplay shows the error of their ways?

Bah, Humbug.

 

[Ian Skippy]

This thread IMHO is a good example of the similarity between backers and cops: its great if you are one but not so much if you became one hoping for near god-like powers. Seriously, I'd pay good money to prevent some folks from having even remotely such powers.

 

[JeffRyan]

This thread IMHO is a good example of the similarity between backers and cops: its great if you are one but not so much if you became one hoping for near god-like powers. Seriously, I'd pay good money to prevent some folks from having even remotely such powers.

You're the first on my smite list now buddy. Well, after jabokai. So the second.

 

[Mack]

This thread IMHO is a good example of the similarity between backers and cops: its great if you are one but not so much if you became one hoping for near god-like powers. Seriously, I'd pay good money to prevent some folks from having even remotely such powers.

I don't believe the god like powers were ever intended to have any effect on individuals, but were more for allowing/assisting the direction that the galaxy was headed (plague / war etc for systems).

This is purely my interpretation : I got the impression that the DDF would be polled in game for a period about what direction they wanted something to go, and the consensus would be the path followed, so the DDF would have no individual powers per say, but as a group would be able to have influence.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

This thread IMHO is a good example of the similarity between backers and cops: its great if you are one but not so much if you became one hoping for near god-like powers. Seriously, I'd pay good money to prevent some folks from having even remotely such powers.

Splendid. I'm sure we can come to an agreement where you pay off those who are entitled, so that FD do not have to built their promised feature, and those that paid for it get their money back. Everyone happy, great result.

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I don't believe the god like powers were ever intended to have any effect on individuals, but were more for allowing/assisting the direction that the galaxy was headed (plague / war etc for systems).

This is purely my interpretation : I got the impression that the DDF would be polled in game for a period about what direction they wanted something to go, and the consensus would be the path followed, so the DDF would have no individual powers per say, but as a group would be able to have influence.

Yes. But lots of folks find it more fun to put up their own straw man, and then burn it down. DBOBE gave details of the sort of thing he envisioned: it is clearly helping FD to moderate the galaxy. Most of the DDF members were quite vocal, several times, about not having pay to win, and not getting any advantage through the DDF.

 

[Jason S]

I don't believe the god like powers were ever intended to have any effect on individuals, but were more for allowing/assisting the direction that the galaxy was headed (plague / war etc for systems).

This is purely my interpretation : I got the impression that the DDF would be polled in game for a period about what direction they wanted something to go, and the consensus would be the path followed, so the DDF would have no individual powers per say, but as a group would be able to have influence.

This is what I thought as well.

I suppose the only issue with it is that a group of players would have had insight to an event or that a set of events may occur before others, unless the polls would be public or not disclosed until after events or not at all.

- - - Updated - - -

I think they could have done it however quite easily and in a way that made it fair.

- - - Updated - - -

So them dumping it is a -1 to good will.

 

[Nagual]

As an atheist, if I was in the DDF I wonder what I would have got?!

 

[Mack]

As an atheist, if I was in the DDF I wonder what I would have got?!

Same as everyone else atm... Nada, Nowt, Nothing, Zip, Zilch (and a few other flavours that would fall foul of the obscenity filters!)

 

[Juniper]

It's all very sad.

It's sad for all of us who pledged time, money, emotional investment & thought into the DDF only to have that effectively thrown back in our faces. Saying that, I did actually enjoy the debates when I thought they meant something.

It's especially sad for Frontier too, because they have systematically alienated the very people who helped get their game funded (without the DDF pledges there would BE no game) and thrown away a dedicated group of people who cared about the game and wanted it to do well (Kerrash excepted of course. I'm not sure what would alienate him. ). The amount of good business even a single engaged DDF member can bring Frontier's way is considerable... let's face it, we are all online addicts & most of us are on social media with hundreds of friends who might not otherwise know of the game. They have basically poo'ed in their own bed with this.

The worst of it is, so much of it is unnecessary. It would take so little effort for them to post & explain things, hell - given the money that changed hands it should buy at least a day of one of their developer's time to be there posting and answering questions of the DDF members as to where we're at. With honesty. Not PR political crap. It will never happen. Frontier (and by extension, Braben and Brookes) are just not the people I thought they were when I backed, and I give people who show they have no honesty or integrity about them a wide berth in life. You live and learn.

Personally though, I've moved on. The game isn't installed on my PC any more, and I've simply drawn a line under the whole endeavour and moved on to other things. I'll probably check Horizons out, but as I had spent weeks setting up control mappings, VR, VoiceAttack and so on to get the "best" playable experience I could, I highly doubt Horizons will be enough to get me to invest that time again. So it will likely be a "brief" check.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Day 4. The natives continue to bang their drums day and night.

Those who came first and laid the pathways and set up their huts on the shore of this thread demand the latecomers to worship them as gods.

The brash newcomers are more numerous, and refuse to be cowed. The catcalls and wailings in the night drive me to the edge of insanity. I'm not sure i shall survive much longer here, i grip my keyboard in frustration, being powerless to stop them.

However, both groups appeal to the Great Old Ones, those giant uncommunacative beings, with the unspeakable names, also referred to as the Devs.

Zac-thotep, the messenger, who can change appearance to enamour those who see him.
Brookes-niggurath, the master of the game with a thousand young.
Lewis-hulhu, with his many black tentacles spread across all game elements, even thought he sleeps in far off R'yleh.
Evans-sothoth, who understands the deepest mysteries of the game, and whose appearance is said to be beyond comprehension.

And finally, the master of all, Braben-thoth, the most powerful of all, the Deamon sultan, who sits and dreams at the center of the game, attended by monstrous developers whose coding lulls him.

None of these great beings speak, yet their presence is known. Watching, waiting, for the time when the stars are right, and they shall manifest in all their horrendous glory, and both new and old residents, shall bow and quake in fear!

(Sorry guys, think i failed my sanity roll this morning)

 

[Juniper]

(Sorry guys, think i failed my sanity roll this morning)

Nice. +1

 

[Pendra]

This thread IMHO is a good example of the similarity between backers and cops: its great if you are one but not so much if you became one hoping for near god-like powers. Seriously, I'd pay good money to prevent some folks from having even remotely such powers.

Talk is cheap, put your money where your mouth is. Purchase this power from everyone who pledged this KS goal. 30.000 GBP should probably cover it. That is good money but I'm not confident you are really willing to pay.

 

[Pendra]

...snip...

So DB and Co sold you some snake oil, I see. You are not the first and certainly not the last person who parted money for intentionally inflated promises. You bought promises, the salesman never intended to keep. Some people refer this practice as "scamming".

Consider this a lesson for the future. Never give money for promises.

 

[Mack]

(Kerrash excepted of course. I'm not sure what would alienate him. ).

I don't think it's possible to alienate an alien..... Heh, sorry Kerrash

 

[Faerie]

So DB and Co sold you some snake oil, I see. You are not the first and certainly not the last person who parted money for intentionally inflated promises. You bought promises, the salesman never intended to keep. Some people refer this practice as "scamming".

Consider this a lesson for the future. Never give money for promises.

Agreed, but who's to blame? The scammer or the scrammed ?
Also consider that under the terms of the kick starter FD only had to produce *something* in order to discharge their responsibility, so they could have cancelled the project after the alpha stage.