Dear FD - Please reconsider having fuel for SRV's

Right as you may be, those 10% being vocal about the inherent issues can spread that to the forums for the other 50k members, who then may have (as I do) friends/family/co-workers who don't go on the forums. I've discussed the same ideas at great length offline and the sentiments are echoed.

I also have experience in the gaming industry. I currently work for a company and in the past, I did years of testing and QA. It doesn't always end up the way players want it, surely, but if we don't voice our disagreements, we'll get nothing.

At this time I feel like we'll just have to wait and see what the beta is like. I have access and I will be streaming as often as I can to give others who don't an idea of what it's like. This will help the non-10% get an idea and voice their concerns as well, especially since what Jypson said is true - we can just call our ship down anywhere. Having fuel expenditure may very well defeat the purpose.

This is a great sentiment and all, but the people who would normally be out of the loop that you're informing don't typically voice their opinions, let alone do so where it will be heard.

Out of every 1000 people who watch your stream, how many are going to consequently decide to create a forum account and voice their opinion? Are these people a different demographic than those already described, or are they simply belonging to one of the same two groups, and late to the feedback game?
 
Well since we're all expressing ourselves on the subject, I for one really regret FD's decision to use fuel for the SRV. I don't like having to look at my fuel gauge when I'm driving around. With the ship calling mechanic (and please don't take that away from us too), it will just be a repetitive gameplay loop of driving, calling the ship for refuel, sending it back into space, driving, rinse and repeat...
We'll see how the whole thing balances itself when beta arrives, I just hope fuel won't be too restrictive...
 
The inability to make it across the galaxy without a fuel scoop or multiple stops is a pain, but it's a necessity to give exploring the bit of depth that it does have. The options for crossing civilized space given fuel restrictions are to increase your fuel efficiency, get a fuel scoop, or make multiple stops....having to think about that, however much a hassle it is, adds a good level of complexity to travel, and allows you to pick your poison in a way that's reasonably satisfying.

A fuel restriction for the SRV better be at least that deep and well thought out, otherwise I don't want it. But I guess that's what beta is for.
 
Out of every 1000 people who watch your stream, how many are going to consequently decide to create a forum account and voice their opinion? Are these people a different demographic than those already described, or are they simply belonging to one of the same two groups, and late to the feedback game?

That's the thing, we don't know. FD retweeted one of my stream links on Monday and I had dozens of people who's names I did not recognize, people who didn't play ED much or didn't explore at all. Not everyone's names will be the same as their commander names, sure, but it is one way of reaching people who would otherwise not visit the forums. And it doesn't take much to change people's opinions about things. The gaming industry is a fickle thing. It goes both ways. And just like politics, there could be hundreds of thousands of us thinking "I'm just one person, what could my voice possibly be worth?" But if we stand together, it's worth a lot.
 
The inability to make it across the galaxy without a fuel scoop or multiple stops is a pain, but it's a necessity to give exploring the bit of depth that it does have.

It's handled badly, though. As it is now it's just an inconvenience that stops you from doing what you are doing for a couple of minutes while you sit in the corona, fiddling your thumbs, watching the gauge go up and perhaps keep the heat in check once in a while.

It would be so much better if the number of jumps on one tank of fuel would be much, much higher (say 1,000-5,000 light years), but the refueling process would be much more involving than it is now. The refueling process could be a mission in itself. It could require you to disable all unnecessary systems, to plot a safe course through the corona and its mass ejections and flares that you'd need to maintain etc. There are quite a few cool things that you could do with the fuel scooping maneuver. Things that would make it a more rare but much more exciting occurence, especially out there in the middle of nowhere. It should be a risky procedure that gives you sweaty palms... but unfortunately that's not the case.
 
Kind of amazed how this thread has continued to live on. Mostly just sitting back with a bag of popcorn and allowing it to run it's course but I have edited the OP slightly in light of recent FD statements.
 
It's handled badly, though. As it is now it's just an inconvenience that stops you from doing what you are doing for a couple of minutes while you sit in the corona, fiddling your thumbs, watching the gauge go up and perhaps keep the heat in check once in a while.

It would be so much better if the number of jumps on one tank of fuel would be much, much higher (say 1,000-5,000 light years), but the refueling process would be much more involving than it is now. The refueling process could be a mission in itself. It could require you to disable all unnecessary systems, to plot a safe course through the corona and its mass ejections and flares that you'd need to maintain etc. There are quite a few cool things that you could do with the fuel scooping maneuver. Things that would make it a more rare but much more exciting occurence, especially out there in the middle of nowhere. It should be a risky procedure that gives you sweaty palms... but unfortunately that's not the case.

Opposite opinion from my pov.

It's handled fairly well - improvable, sure, but not badly at all. It takes minutes because that is the choice you configured for your ship. Using a 5A scoop for example on a an Asp or ship wth 32T fuel tank, it takes seconds - most the time just doing a 'dip and dash' is enough - won't refill tanks fully, but every time hyper out to a kgbfoam star, I just dip and scoop while FSD cools down, then jump again soon as reset.

That allows for quite a long way of extending chain jumping until finally have to come to normal full refuel scoop - which again with a 5A scoop on 32T tank takes nowhere close being counted in minutes, but still in seconds- although for a full near empty to 32T refill, it takes something like 30 sec ballpark'ish - don't quote me on that, will have to re-time it next time but it is for sure far less than a minute even for full refill.

Second - common sense in a scifi game is sort of moot, but on other hand, past tech progression has shown that complimentary techs always paces each other. So if we propulsion tech is what we see as is in ED universe, then the complimentary refueling tech for that propulsion tech has to be equally advanced or close to it. Having propulsion that allows crossing entire galaxies and yet have the complimentary tech of refueling be much more involving where it is a "risky procedure that gives you sweaty palms" seems far out of whack of plausible tech progression.

And again not that common sense in scifi has to matter - but we either have highly efficient jump drives or we don't. e.g. the tech is so miracle magic tech that somehow we compress and scoop from the interstitial space between stars some form of 'regenerating' fuel or are able to trigger such large energy reactions that a small amount of fuel allows vastly long distance travel - either say, we have this tech or we don't

But if we do have that vast distance without refueling tech that allows jump drives to be that efficient, then the refueling tech would have to be as likely advanced as well. It's hard to plausibly ascribe something as achieved via science to allow that level of jump tech, but still be so primitive in refueling that the very act of refueling is a sweaty experience.

What I would like to see is different refueling options given. The scoop of hydrogen based stellar objects like stars is fine, but I'd also like to see slower, but differing options like theorized ram jets that scoop free floating hydrogen from the system matter as well as less dense interstitial space between star systems. The only gap I'm aware of that free floating hydrogen would be difficult to theoretically gather would be in the interstitial space between galaxies, but that's moot since ED is purely our galaxy only.

For that matter, it's odd to think by 3301 that complete fusion recombination tech isn't in place. Option 3 - need fuel? turn some of your cargo matter into fuel via fusion, ala Back to the Future mobile.

My only wishlist for ED is that the amount of plausible tech missing given the other extremely advanced tech we see leaves lots of rooms for additions as well as head scratching confusion why the heck can't we do X, if we can clearly do Y?
 
Opposite opinion from my pov.

It's handled fairly well - improvable, sure, but not badly at all. It takes minutes because that is the choice you configured for your ship. Using a 5A scoop for example on a an Asp or ship wth 32T fuel tank, it takes seconds - most the time just doing a 'dip and dash' is enough - won't refill tanks fully, but every time hyper out to a kgbfoam star, I just dip and scoop while FSD cools down, then jump again soon as reset.

Hm... I've fitted the best fuel scoop that I could find on my Asp, with a max scoop rate of 176 units per second and it defintely takes longer than a few seconds.
 
Hm... I've fitted the best fuel scoop that I could find on my Asp, with a max scoop rate of 176 units per second and it defintely takes longer than a few seconds.

Even still, you can fly by a star while waiting for your fsd to come off CD and get a fair bit of fuel. Rinse and repeat until you feel you need to stop and fill up, which won't take very long. Not to mention you can scan the star you're scooping while also checking the system map for other scan candidates.

....scandidates?
 
Hm... I've fitted the best fuel scoop that I could find on my Asp, with a max scoop rate of 176 units per second and it defintely takes longer than a few seconds.

Ahhh, that's your problem then. You probably haven't gone to a station that has the better fuel scoops. Quick tutorial is that the fuel scoop rate shown in outfitting is expressed as T/s or tons per second. Which is then shown as kilograms per sec when you actually scoop, except it doesn't say kilogram, just says 176/s

So your 176/s model would be a 0.18T/s fuel scoop - which tells me it is an A3 model.

The A4 model is almost double that at 0.34T/s or 340 units/sec

An A5 model, which is what I use, gets you a whopping 0.58T/s or 580 units/sec (e.g. kilograms/sec)

That is more than 3x as fast as your scoop (+329% to be exact)

With a 5A scoop, sitting at non-heart frying distance so that my heat doesn't really go up much at all, I scoop usually around 450-480/sec rate and refill my entire Asp 32T tank in half a minute. But like I said, it's rare I have to actually do a full stop and refill - I can just hyper out, dip into the star, and the 5-7 sec of fuel scooping I get before I jump again pretty much lets me keep going for a long, long time before my tanks get really low - because I can just about scoop almost the fuel I need to make that next jump with just the 5-7 sec of scooping - not quite enough, but enough that my net loss in total fuel is very small.

If you really want to go bonkers, a 6A fuel scoop, which is really expensive, will let you dip and dash like in just a few seconds for all but the biggest fuel tanks.
 
I dont like the idea of something changing because someone else wants to use me as their "fun". Fuel Rats are awesome, dont get me wrong, at first I thought it was only NPCs. Only been playing a few weeks. But its a bit arrogant to try to force Horizons to suit your game play. We are talking about space ships that do huge frame shifts... A little off road vehicle is going to stress these ships for fuel? It just doesnt make sense. Maybe in RP sense, the solar panels dont work on the dark side of a planet and you need some sort of fuel reserve for that, but honestly how could this drain all your ships fuel and leave you stranded in a few hours of planet exploring? And I have to alt tab, post on a forum and wait for a savior? Thats crazy talk, youre crazy. What about solo play? Im sorry but at least at first, there shouldnt be a crippling need for fuel.
 
I dont like the idea of something changing because someone else wants to use me as their "fun". Fuel Rats are awesome, dont get me wrong, at first I thought it was only NPCs. Only been playing a few weeks. But its a bit arrogant to try to force Horizons to suit your game play. We are talking about space ships that do huge frame shifts... A little off road vehicle is going to stress these ships for fuel? It just doesnt make sense. Maybe in RP sense, the solar panels dont work on the dark side of a planet and you need some sort of fuel reserve for that, but honestly how could this drain all your ships fuel and leave you stranded in a few hours of planet exploring? And I have to alt tab, post on a forum and wait for a savior? Thats crazy talk, youre crazy. What about solo play? Im sorry but at least at first, there shouldnt be a crippling need for fuel.

I doubt my little plea here 3 months ago "forced" Frontier Developments into doing a U-turn on this issue. What I did want to do was remind them (who am I kidding, like they need reminding of anything!) to leave the way open for emergent gameplay to, well, emerge. It's often the little inconveniences that add the extra depth to a game. Remove too many of those inconveniences (like the need to keep an eye on fuel occasionally) and you end up dumbing the thing down to the point where it's too easy. Anyone remember Warcraft back when you had to re-stock on ammo? Maybe I'm weird but I loved that. And I gather you don't even have to go back to the city and visit your trainer these days. Pfft.

Oh, and re: alt-tab ... I kind of agree and hope we'll get the ability to send distress calls in-game one day. And re: solo play, we can still rescue solo players if they don't mind switching to Open mode for 10 minutes (it's not THAT bad in Open you know). And re: using you for our "fun" ... OK, well you might have a point there ... but many of the people we rescue really do enjoy the experience you know, I'm not making that part up.
 
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