Defending against Murder Monkeys and other BGS attacks: Best Current Thinking

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
SUBJECT TO CHANGE IN 3.4


This thread is a request from a group suffering from a murder onslaught.

I'm in two minds, since we have suffered Authority murder daily up till 3.0 and sporadically since 3.0, and letting slip how to defend may weaken our position but here goes.

  • Establish how you are being attacked: is it an attack on your faction or support of a different faction. The tell tale sign that it is a negative transation attack on your faction is that all other factions gain influence, pro rata with their starting influence. If it is a positive transaction attack one faction will rise sharply and the rest will fall pro rata with starting influence. The image is a negative attack.
    Y7sQ2a2.png
  • If a negative attack - what method? If there is wholesale murder, there will be bounties on the local boards now (a huge improvement brought in in 3.0) Keep a very close eye on them and how they change. You should also see civil unrest and lockdown apear as pending states. Black Market sales will manifest as a pending Bust state.
  • Quantify the "damage" With murder, the perpetrators will likely be using the same ships and with a bit of practice, you can estimate the number of murders by tracking their bounty increases. A murder fine at notoriety 10 is between (ship rebuy cost / 30) and (ship rebuy cost / 35). If there are more than 5 murder monkeys it gets tougher. since you can only see the top 5. It used to be that the difference between bounties issued and bounties claimed /5500 (a murder and an assualt fine) was a good indicator of how many murders you were dealing with. Until we find a better way we are currently using traffic reports and using historical data. Traffic and past behaviour analysis is the ony way to quantify other forms of attack and positve transation support for other faction(s) If you are under threat be absolutely sure what ships visiting the system are yours. With time you will get a feel for who is visiting and what they are doing. (in busy areas I appreciate that this is probably not possible)
  • Reversing/neutralising the damage: It is impossible to counter a murder spree real time with the same effort, which is why exploration data is a king of defence - you can accumulate and store it - we try to have 1000 systems stored just in case. (that's currently enough to neutralise 500 murders though there are rumours of an incoming change). Murders are automatically counted as individual transactions, whilst bounty hunting only counts as a transaction per drop, so unless you are blessed with a Haz Res very close to a station, there is no way you counter a murderer with the same amount of effort, though ATRs have narrowed the gap a bit - it is no longer simple to just sit there and farm dozens of authority ships.
  • Don't be afraid of Unrest and Lockdown Civil unrest doubles the effect of Bounty hunting wrt to murder. Lockdown effectively prevents all non-murder negative activity against the controlling faction, whilst allowing bounty hunting and exploration data as positive BGS levers for the station owner.
  • Use blocking states and don't be afraid to let your influence slip If you are in multiple systems triggering an election in a different system gives you the security of avoiding an asset losing situation in the system under attack. You have 10 days respite. A war can give you 3 weeks safety though you will lose influence everwhere else unless you are blessed with good BH sites. If you are a native faction, it is possible to retain control of the system from sub 7% influence. You just have to make sure no other faction gets to >60% - though this is generally quite easy, especially if you have multiple factions owning landable assets. We have defended a system this way for close to a year.


Approximate Bounties per Murder
at noteriety 10

ShipBounty Range per Murder
Imperial Cutter1.4 to 1.8 million
Federal Corvette1.2 to 1.5 million
Anaconda1.0 to 1.3 million
Fer-de-Lance300-310K
Krait240-260K
Chieftan120-130k






First draft!
As ever corrections/additions welcome and will be incorporated
 
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also ATR arent the deterrant they were towted to be, jump in SC and it just resets the ATR. even having the bounty on your head you get one elite bounty hunter and the murder monkeys easily deal with that
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
also ATR arent the deterrant they were towted to be, jump in SC and it just resets the ATR. even having the bounty on your head you get one elite bounty hunter and the murder monkeys easily deal with that

Its does I think slow murder down a bit - you can't murder ship after ship as they spawn in front of you, but it doesn't stop it.
 

_trent_

Volunteer Moderator
I think the real outlier in the BGS is the mechanic for murder. Each ship murder is immediately counted and each is treated as a separate transaction. If I go to the nearby RES site and kill all of the police and miner ships I can rack up 20-30 transactions in about 15 minutes. If I go to the RES and kill every pirate there I am having no impact on the BGS until I hand in the bounties, and even then I am only having one transaction per faction I hand bounties in for.

What is notable is that the instant and individual nature of bounties does not apply with fines. I've took a ship to a zero traffic system and bumped every other ship around the station to get speeding fines. Despite racking up about 50 fines, the faction barely dropped at all. I went back the following day and got myself a single speeding fine. The drop in influence was the same as the previous day with 50+ fines.

I'd be interested to see what the effect would be if FD used the same mechanic for gaining bounties as they do for collecting them, or for gaining fines for that matter.
 
I think the real outlier in the BGS is the mechanic for murder. Each ship murder is immediately counted and each is treated as a separate transaction. If I go to the nearby RES site and kill all of the police and miner ships I can rack up 20-30 transactions in about 15 minutes. If I go to the RES and kill every pirate there I am having no impact on the BGS until I hand in the bounties, and even then I am only having one transaction per faction I hand bounties in for.

What is notable is that the instant and individual nature of bounties does not apply with fines. I've took a ship to a zero traffic system and bumped every other ship around the station to get speeding fines. Despite racking up about 50 fines, the faction barely dropped at all. I went back the following day and got myself a single speeding fine. The drop in influence was the same as the previous day with 50+ fines.

I'd be interested to see what the effect would be if FD used the same mechanic for gaining bounties as they do for collecting them, or for gaining fines for that matter.

I would like to see murder vouchers (scalps, maybe?) turned in at local interstellar factors or some sort of underworld contact available in all systems. Perhaps said contact might only appear if you're anonymized?
 
This thread is a request from a group suffering from a murder onslaught.

...

  • Don't be afraid of Unrest and Lockdown Civil unrest doubles the effect of Bounty hunting wrt to murder and also increases the speed at which security turns up. Lockdown effectively prevents all non-murder negative activity against the controlling faction, whilst allowing bounty hunting and exploration data as positive BGS levers for the station owner.

I cannot confirm either way for Lockdown as we haven't seen that yet, but I think you got the ATR response exactly reversed for Civil Unrest. We have seen ATR response during Civil Unrest be 3-4 times slower (!) than during Boom time.

It depends on how you count whether it's 3 or 4x, but during Boom in a hisec system ATR sends you the 1m warning after 3 ship kills. During Civil Unrest after 12(!). I am waiting for a lockdown to hit to test what it is during Lockdown.

And I like Misaniovent's suggestion. Something at least to change the "each kill = 1 transaction" we currently have, that makes it beyond OP, especially since there is no loss cap.
 
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I cannot confirm either way for Lockdown as we haven't seen that yet, but I think you got the ATR response exactly reversed for Civil Unrest. We have seen ATR response during Civil Unrest be 3-4 times slower (!) than during Boom time.
This would make sense - Civil Unrest decreases security level, whereas Lockdown increases it.
 
I cannot confirm either way for Lockdown as we haven't seen that yet, but I think you got the ATR response exactly reversed for Civil Unrest. We have seen ATR response during Civil Unrest be 3-4 times slower (!) than during Boom time.

It depends on how you count whether it's 3 or 4x, but during Boom in a hisec system ATR sends you the 1m warning after 3 ship kills. During Civil Unrest after 12(!). I am waiting for a lockdown to hit to test what it is during Lockdown.

And I like Misaniovent's suggestion. Something at least to change the "each kill = 1 transaction" we currently have, that makes it beyond OP, especially since there is no loss cap.

From my experience, they come faster in Lockdown.
 
ATR comes after ~4 murders while in lockdown.
A murder fine at notoriety 10 is between (ship rebuy cost / 30) and (ship rebuy cost / 35).
 
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[*]Lockdown effectively prevents all non-murder negative activity against the controlling faction, whilst allowing bounty hunting and exploration data as positive BGS levers for the station owner.


So, even if my system is under a lock down, I can still gain influence there by BH and Exploration? I was under the impression that the only thing I could do was bounty hunt and that would only reduce the duration of the lock down but wouldn't effect influence.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
So, even if my system is under a lock down, I can still gain influence there by BH and Exploration? I was under the impression that the only thing I could do was bounty hunt and that would only reduce the duration of the lock down but wouldn't effect influence.

Exploration data currently works perfectly well in all states but war/civil war
 
I would like to see murder vouchers (scalps, maybe?) turned in at local interstellar factors or some sort of underworld contact available in all systems. Perhaps said contact might only appear if you're anonymized?

I like this idea - it brings murder in parallel with bounty-hunting, and makes them better balanced against each other.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
I like this idea - it brings murder in parallel with bounty-hunting, and makes them better balanced against each other.

I like this idea a lot more than eg converting bonds and bounty hunting to count a transaction with every kill. That then just knocks everything else in the BGS out of kilter and you end up with another spiralling transaction value arms race.
 
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