"Development Level >>"? Figuring out what all these numbers do.

[Rudolph Kingsfield]

There are a few things I'm not clear on and I haven't been able to find answers from forum searches:
1) Do WWs and ELWs only provide population bonuses to the stations in orbit around them? So WWs and ELWs don't give a pop bonus unless you build something over them?
2) Is there a maximum security level where you don't any benefit from further increasing it?
3) Does high standard of living increase population growth or max population? I believe high standard of living decreases the chance of bad BGS states like outbreak.
4) What tech level unlocks every ship and equipment in outfitting? Past that level, tech level doesn't give any benefits, right?
5) What does wealth stat do? My understanding is that it increases the ease of getting positive BGS states like boom and investment.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Speaking of orbital slots - may I ask why you suggest a colony surface port? Would an orbital colony outpost not be preferable?

Personal preference - the surface port is the cheapest way to get a large pad. For Agri a medium pad would be sufficient, though, so you could go with an orbital outpost.

There are a few things I'm not clear on and I haven't been able to find answers from forum searches:

These are mostly questions which could only be resolved by either Frontier telling us or an extremely long experiment involving parallel constructions in multiple systems.

1) Do WWs and ELWs only provide population bonuses to the stations in orbit around them? So WWs and ELWs don't give a pop bonus unless you build something over them?

That seems to be the case from early reports but population levels are not well understood.

2) Is there a maximum security level where you don't any benefit from further increasing it?

Probably once it gets to High you'd only see very incremental changes from further updates. Security seems to work quite differently since there's no way to decrease most of the others, so it's more a case of "you need to keep building stuff to balance your ports out" rather than "you need to build fifty points of it outright to see the benefits"

3) Does high standard of living increase population growth or max population? I believe high standard of living decreases the chance of bad BGS states like outbreak.

Max population has its own chevrons, so probably not. It might increase the growth rate but the controlled experiments needed to test that would be extremely time-consuming.

It increases the size of the Famine, Investment, Civil Unrest and Civil Liberty slider regions; that doesn't necessarily make them easier or harder to obtain but can make them more stable once obtained.

Outbreak and similar "event" states are so difficult to test that there's basically no possibility of proving or disproving that theory.

(Note that higher current population, however achieved, makes all BGS states less likely. If you want anything other than None keeping the population low might be a good idea)

4) What tech level unlocks every ship and equipment in outfitting? Past that level, tech level doesn't give any benefits, right?

Not known. You'd also of course need a high enough development level to provide them all at once, and shipyards carefully split between Federal, Imperial and Alliance factions in your system.
(Or ignore tech level and attract a Powerplay Stronghold Carrier, but that's not exactly easy either)

5) What does wealth stat do? My understanding is that it increases the ease of getting positive BGS states like boom and investment.

Not obviously. It seems to increase the size of the "None" region on the economy slider, which makes both Investment and Famine harder to achieve.

It has been seen to affect commodity pricing and relative commodity supply/demand but the fine details of how would again be far too much experimentation to be practical.

Development Level seems to make Boom and Bust larger (so without that neither is easy to acheive as you'll tend to overshoot to Famine or Investment)

 

[Frankymole]

Regarding economy for the whole system as shown on the galaxy map - I've built my 14th "thing" in the system, it's the biggest, an Orbis station (thus, tourism) but not yet officially "online" (no mission boards, vendors etc - but there is a shipyard in the menu but not the concourse, and a multitude of overpriced commodities for sale). The galaxy map flipped from Economy: "Extraction, Military" to "Extraction, Tourism" straight away.

 

[Cmdr Sylveste]

My refinery system has 2 gas giants with rocky moons, with no other bodies in the system.
The inner gas giant rocky moons have 1 surface slot and1 orbital slot, but no bio/geo signals.
The outer gas giant rocky moons have 3 surface slots and 2 orbital slots, but each of the 4 moons has bio signals.
The primary outpost above one of these moons has 3 strong links to refinery, agriculture and terraforming (despite the body being not terraformable). This, as expected, results in a mixed refinery/agri market, with some refinery products being unavailable, due to the TF influence.
I built a T1 surface port on the moon below, which has a refinery market with no polymers or semiconductors.
I then built a second T1 port on one of the single slot rocky moons, which has all refinery products available (except Insulating Membrane).
A T2 refinery hub, built today, on the original moon has sufficient influence to allow the original T1 port to produce polymers and semiconductors, as well as a general boost to supply levels. There is also a weak refinery link to the second T1 port, not present before, which now also produces higher supply levels there.

The question (eventually) is what happens if I build an orbital in the slot above the second T1 port? Will it pick up weak links from the primary port body, resulting in some commodities not being available? My plan was to build a Coriolis here, but I am reluctant to do so if the market is going to be negatively affected.

 

[hutandrei]

The orbital would only pick weak links from the other facilities built into the system (in you case, a refinery hub), and not from the main port.
Only if you have 2 ports in the same orbit, then one of them could act as a facility as well, and send a weak link.
You don't, so you should be ok.

 

[Strunzdesign]

At tech level 97 my outfitting shop had all modules but 8A life support. Now, with another refinery finished, I'm sitting at tech level 100 and 8A life support appeared. All the common stuff is available now, so tech level 100 is the max. I'm pushing further now, maybe some guardian stuff is going to appear next, who knows

o7

EDIT: NOOOOOooo.... the 8A fuel scoop is missing

 

[Cmdr Sylveste]

The orbital would only pick weak links from the other facilities built into the system (in you case, a refinery hub), and not from the main port.
Only if you have 2 ports in the same orbit, then one of them could act as a facility as well, and send a weak link.
You don't, so you should be ok.

Thanks for confirming this.
I'm building a couple of comms relays now, as I need the T2 points.
I'll add the second T2 refinery hub on the 3 slot moon next, as this should boost supply levels further.
I'm not in any rush to build the Coriolis. I'm tempted to repeat the build on another of the 3 slot moons.
The irony is that once I have developed this system fully, I probably won't need the materials, as I won't be carrying on with colonisation.

 

[MoridinUK]

I have a scenario I want to check out with you all.

I've a rocky world with biologicals. It has 4 planetary spots on it and one orbital.

I've build 3 refinery hubs and an Orbis in orbit.

Another world (also rocky with biologicals sigh) has another T3 which was the primary port, that body has no other constructions yet.
The system does have some security and military bases to help sort out the security level.

The primary T3 has an economy like this:

Docked, Type: Ocellus in system HIP 102491, State: None, Faction: Azura Corporation in state Expansion
Allegiance: Unknown, Economy: Refinery, Government: Corporate
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Market, Contacts, Universal Cartographics, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Missions Generated, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop
Livery, Social Space, Vista Genomics, System Colonisation
Economies: Refinery 155%, Agri 145%, Terraforming 100%, Military 10%, High Tech 5%

The t3 around the planet with 3 refineries is like this:

Docked, Type: Surface Station in system HIP 102491, State: Construction, Faction: Azura Corporation in state Expansion
Allegiance: Unknown, Economy: Refinery, Government: Corporate
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Market, Contacts, Universal Cartographics, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop, Livery
Social Space, Vista Genomics, System Colonisation
Economies: Refinery 420%, Agri 145%, Terraforming 100%, Military 10%, High Tech 5%

Now I'm a bit surprised they both have exactly the same military and hightech from the weak links.

My question is what happens on my refinery planet if I build a t1 surface (civilian) planetary port in the final slot (I'm after CMMs)

The strong links should switch to it and then it will pass them up to the T3. But will that work if it's a T1 planetary port? I think that's what the description suggested in the original patch 3 post but wondered what other people thought?

I'm tempted to build a 4th refinery though

 

[hutandrei]

The economy of that ground port will be exactly what you have on the T3 port orbiting now + cmm and ceramics. So it is a good idea if you want them.
What will change (a bit) is the T3 port in orbit.
It will have an extra 0.4 refinery, 0.4 agri and 0.4 terraforming.
If you add everything, you'll notice that 61.7% of the total economies from your t3 port is now refinery. That will go down to 57.5%, but that is such a small decrease, that the market commodities will probably be the same.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

The t3 around the planet with 3 refineries is like this:
Economies: Refinery 420%, Agri 145%, Terraforming 100%, Military 10%, High Tech 5%

This looks odd to me; I would have expected refinery to be 500.

• 100 from the body with a +40 boost for having pristine reserves in the system (140 total)
• 3x 80 for each hub, again with a +40 boost for each of them (3x 120 = 360).

Instead it seems to have done this, to end up with 420:

• 100 from the body with a +40 boost (140 total)
• 3x 80 from each hub combined together for 240, with a single +40 boost (280 total).

Another possible explanation is that you've hit some sort of cap. Either way it's not worth adding another hub.

 

[MoridinUK]

This looks odd to me; I would have expected refinery to be 500.

• 100 from the body with a +40 boost for having pristine reserves in the system (140 total)
• 3x 80 for each hub, again with a +40 boost for each of them (3x 120 = 360).

Instead it seems to have done this, to end up with 420:

• 100 from the body with a +40 boost (140 total)
• 3x 80 from each hub combined together for 240, with a single +40 boost (280 total).

Another possible explanation is that you've hit some sort of cap. Either way it's not worth adding another hub.

I've seen others talk of a cap but I have seen refinery in my other system at 520% But I see your point.

It will have an extra 0.4 refinery, 0.4 agri and 0.4 terraforming.

Ah so this is the part we think maybe working oddly? Where the surface port passes on the planetary influence as a weak link as well as influence from the surface strong links?

Potentially an unintended 'feature' maybe?

Edit: Ok this system is definitely bugged I'll post more details a bit later and maybe raise a ticket. I'm getting duplicated weak links, but the second station hasn't been through a weekly tick yet. Maybe I should wait a little longer.

It's either that, or the completion of the new station made the links refresh but didn't update the links on the first station.

 

[Kzak]

There might be a cap as to how high we can get one industry in a system, but FDev hasn't mentioned it as far as I know.

 

[Kira Goto]

So, after figuring out how creating shareable Google document links work... here's some of my current system plans (that I'm not sure of any other or better place to share). I am relatively sure it's view only but in case it is not, please don't mess around with it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YRQZbmLHDSKMy2X5Tn_CVVPoJ8qhL7x2z_C89utVAo8/edit?usp=sharing

Ignoring that I'm probably overambitious and may end up getting some help from friends, especially on the two big ones, I'd like some input on whether the ones that have things filled out make sense. Or just how to add extra colonies to that sheet instead of having to replace some stuff like I did with colony 5 to put the new refinery system in.

 

[MoridinUK]

Ok so here is the system I'm confused by:

New T3 over the refinery planet it's a rocky world with biologicals:

Docked, Type: Surface Station in system HIP 102491, State: Construction, Faction: Azura Corporation in state Expansion
Allegiance: Unknown, Economy: Refinery, Government: Corporate
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Market, Contacts, Universal Cartographics, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop, Livery
Social Space, Vista Genomics, System Colonisation
Economies: Refinery 420%, Agri 145%, Terraforming 100%, Military 10%, High Tech 5%

The planet has 3 refinery hubs on it.


This is the primary T3 also over a rocky world with biologicals but nothing built on it:

Docked, Type: Ocellus in system HIP 102491, State: None, Faction: Azura Corporation in state Expansion
Allegiance: Unknown, Economy: Refinery, Government: Corporate
Station services: Dock, Autodock, Market, Contacts, Universal Cartographics, Missions, Outfitting, Crew Lounge, Restock, Refuel
Repair, Shipyard, Workshop, Missions Generated, Flight Controller, Station Operations, Powerplay, Search And Rescue, Station Menu, Shop
Livery, Social Space, Vista Genomics, System Colonisation
Economies: Refinery 155%, Agri 145%, Terraforming 100%, Military 10%, High Tech 5%

There is nothing else in orbit or on the surface.

Elsewhere in the system we have these things built:

3x comm Station (no influence)
1x Satellite (no influence)
1x Relay Station (high tech influence)
1x Security Station (military influence) (Strong link to military outpost)
1x T2 Military Settlement (military influence) (Strong link to military outpost)
1x T1 orbital Military outpost (military influence)
1 x T1 Orbital Space farm (argi influence) (no strong link)

Which seems like some of these are turning up as weak links in two places?

Or do facilities add a weak link to every port that isn't at the same body as them? Which seems, excessive?

 

[Tyrrel]

Or do facilities add a weak link to every port that isn't at the same body as them? Which seems, excessive?

It's this exactly.

 

[MoridinUK]

It's this exactly.

Oh, well is that really intended? It seems excessive finding it's way somewhere makes sense but every where?

Edit: this would be 100% better if it worked only when there wasn't a strong link, so facilities without a strong link send weak links to ports all over the system (or just the nearest really) and those with a strong link don't create any weak links at all.

 

[Tyrrel]

Oh, well is that really intended? It seems excessive finding it's way somewhere makes sense but every where?

Edit: this would be 100% better if it worked only when there wasn't a strong link, so facilities without a strong link send weak links to ports all over the system (or just the nearest really) and those with a strong link don't create any weak links at all.

It's intended, yes. I wish FDev could give us more fine-tuned control over where economies may go, but I imagine that implementing that would involve a pretty hefty refactor of a lot of really important code (BGS primarily.) As such we need to really strategically plan our systems before we even start the claim and build the first port.

 

[MoridinUK]

It's intended, yes. I wish FDev could give us more fine-tuned control over where economies may go, but I imagine that implementing that would involve a pretty hefty refactor of a lot of really important code (BGS primarily.) As such we need to really strategically plan our systems before we even start the claim and build the first port.

Well it sucks, and makes no sense but then very little in Fdev's worlds does.

It is really odd that a facility can produce more things (larger economic output) when there are more markets in the system... but hey great,

I dont want fine grained control but I wanted enough to be able to produce the stuff we need. anyway moan over

 

[Rip_Steakface]

I'm trying to squeeze ports with as diverse a supply as possible into a single system. If I build 2 industrial outposts in the orbit of the same body, one of them will act as "bait" for weak links and the other one will offer full supply, correct? But what happens if I build, say, 1 orbital industrial outpost and 1 planetary T1 industrial outpost around/on the same body? What if I build 2 planetary ones? Does the "bait" principle still apply in these cases?

 

[MoridinUK]

You'd need to build two stations at the same body. I don't know how weak links choose between orbital or planetary ports though.

So we know that if there are only orbital ports, they should go to the oldest, highest tier port.

But say you had a body and you built Two T1 ports in orbit and a T3 port (last) on the surface. I don't know if the weak links would go to the surface port or the oldest T1 still. But the strong link from the planetary port would go to Oldest T1..

So you could build a civilian port first, and then an industrial outpost. But the weak links wont affect the industrial outpost anyway (unless they are industrial in nature..)