Development Update 1 - June

this is interesting to me, because I just don't see what a HOTAS would change in NMS - it can be perfectly flown with mouse and W,S for thrusters.
I'm a boy and I love my HOTAS ;) (plus I spent £300 on it - it's an immersion thing, lol). Also, I play NMS in VR so you have to use the touch controllers, which are ok (and great when walking / jetpacking about) but nothing like gripping my joystick and jerking it round to do a barrel roll)...

I'm playing Evochron Legacy (something I always hoped ED would be more like) at the moment which has atmospheric flight - and wispy clouds and oceans, and I love fighting the winds and rainstorms to keep my ship flying. Drop the speed below 200 whatevers and drop like a brick (no magic hover technology) or fly over 3000 and damge your engine. No orbital mechanics unfortunately but an awesome flight model.
 
I'm a boy and I love my HOTAS ;) (plus I spent £300 on it - it's an immersion thing, lol). Also, I play NMS in VR so you have to use the touch controllers, which are ok (and great when walking / jetpacking about) but nothing like gripping my joystick and jerking it round to do a barrel roll)...

I'm playing Evochron Legacy (something I always hoped ED would be more like) at the moment which has atmospheric flight - and wispy clouds and oceans, and I love fighting the winds and rainstorms to keep my ship flying. Drop the speed below 200 whatevers and drop like a brick (no magic hover technology) or fly over 3000 and damge your engine. No orbital mechanics unfortunately but an awesome flight model.
That's the one made by one guy isn't it?? Truly amazing.. wish Elite becomes more like that with atmosphere and clouds etc.
 

rootsrat

Volunteer Moderator
I must say, this "sallymorganmoore"-approach gives very much hope.

Right now I´m into "Hunt: Showdown", because the possibility of buy something essential/meaningful that you need! This makes long-term motivation. Hope that will come to ED too (in form of PP?) and hope for better FPS (min. 60, must have for shooter). Read every sally-post in hope of some informations to that. Excited for Patch 6.
Kudos for your avatar! <3
 
@sallymorganmoore I really do like Thursdays, because we see so much information being shared, we see questions being answered, even if that answer is "I really can't say right now, but there's something coming". Unfortunately, for me and players like me (about 2,000 hours in game, almost triple Elite, billions in the bank, 40+ ships, mostly fully engineered, Guardian unlocks done, at least 2 Goids done, Fleet Carrier, etc.) I think Odyssey turned out to basically be more of the same, but with on foot gameplay mechanic added. Collect materials to unlock x, deliver y to z for small amount of credits, etc. What we wanted, was new ships, new weapons, ship interiors, thargoid ground combat, new SRVs, storyline side-quests (that aren't just, collect x number of y and deliver to z) that allow us to skip some of the grindier things in Elite, like shipbuilding for PvP. To build a new FDL from scratch, if I've got no engineered modules lying around to use, I have to spend 1 - 4 hours minimum gathering materials (assuming I use relog at JJ and HGE sites, obviously), then 1 - 4 hours minimum flying around engineers to apply experimental effects and engineer things I haven't pinned, to do one fight in a ship and realise it doesn't work, then I have to go back to mat gathering and engineer travelling to re-engineer it and try something new... that's painful! I mean, it was kinda fun the first couple of times I did it, the next 38 though... not so much! I did it, because I love PvP in this game, I love goid fights, I even enjoy the PvE combat when I'm winged up with my squadron trying to win a system, but the amount of grind (repetitive gameplay I don't enjoy) to enable me to do those things I do enjoy, is huge by comparison.

I guess my question is, are any of those features coming, is any of the grind going to be changed for the better, or am I better off giving up on the game now? I've bought Elite: Horizons 4 times on 2 platforms and 2 copies of Odyssey: Alpha access, that's a lot of money (none of them were at discount...) to spend on one franchise and I've played Odyssey for probably 5 hours since the Alpha finished? Was that worth £80? No, definitely not. I'd love to be furious, but I'm just downright sad, because I absolutely adore Elite, it's the only reason I bought an X52 Pro, but at this point, I genuinely don't think there's anything coming to Elite that's going to make me want to play again. Am I wrong? Please say I'm wrong.


I really appreciate someone else discussing the grind to get involved in some fun elements of the game. I've got ~600Hours on PC and ~500-600Hours on XBOX so not coming to your levels of gameplay or experience in Elite. That's the thing though, the grind. It blocks gameplay and spoils my experience.

With those hours logged, I still haven't unlocked all the engineers and haven't fully upgraded ships etc and then another grind came with the on-foot gameplay.

I'd personally like to be able to welcome new players (which I've tried in the past but they can't get past the grind) and say "Hey lets do...."

1. Thargoid killing - Load up the game, shop for some components in some systems that stock these types of components, attach to ship, go have fun killing Thargoids. Or even trade components with people, transfer money to get started welcoming new players so they can get involved without the grind. Thargoid killing is the gameplay I've wanted to play but only managed to watch YouTube players partake in as I don't have the time to grind the materials needed to participate. If I could login to Elite, get in my ship and go meet up with people killing Thargoids what gameplay that would be. To partake I have to dedicate at least 95% of that time grinding to get started, which isn't worth it.

2. Bounties/PvP Bounties - Shop for the components, Equip, play. Have Missions for Bounties on Players. This again puts new players off as to partake in any of this gameplay there is a wall of grind that you have to unlock to even have a chance.

3. On Foot Missions - Shop for equipment, loadouts, attachments from different systems that have stock, able to transfer equipment with friends without grinding looking at terminals as they download and then re-log etc This again helps with gameplay as you can choose from the shop what loadout would be best for that particular mission without grinding again. I love the ground missions but when I was playing everything was behind a grind, which isn't gameplay in my eyes - The missions are.

4. Quicker travel times - If only nearly 2% of the systems have been explored in 7 years, this needs adjusting. x10 the jump ranges, let us see more of what's out there as in another 7 years who knows where the game will be and if 4% of the game has been explored, that would be sad. Multiplying the jump ranges by 10 would allow 40% of the game to be discovered over the next 7 years.

What it boils down to is that for my ~900hours my typical gameplay isn't actually gameplay it's probably a break down as follows:

50% Grinding
30% Travelling - There is nothing fun about leaving Elite on the other screen waiting to get somewhere
10% Fighting the Instancing
5% Gameplay
5% Googling how to grind things which is a log off and log on again usually

I'd love to see this breakdown flip to:

80% Gameplay - Log on, do anything you want as a new player, experienced player - Just pure skill and loadout sets you apart
10% Shopping for components
10% Travelling

Final Point: In my 900Hours I gained 1 Elite friend, which I persuaded to buy Odyssey myself. He gets in my ship, we try and jump to another system and the game crashes for him. We would end up doing local system missions which got boring fast so his experience is already tainted. We both haven't played since but I do still have hope that things are about to change. In a comparison, I've played Star Citizen for 2 weeks - They have global chat which I partake in. I've got 12 Friends in 2 weeks on Star Citizen and been invited to multiple discord channels, gifted credits to get started, help with loadouts, lots of multiplayer content and mainly gameplay etc. Global chat is very powerful!

So in summary, please re-consider the gameplay blocking mechanics within Elite and remove the grind and have faith that people love playing Elite for the gameplay content it has to offer without adding time wasting mechanics. Allow the players to use their skill level and loadout to set apart if they succeed or fail
 
1. Thargoid killing - Load up the game, shop for some components in some systems that stock these types of components, attach to ship, go have fun killing Thargoids. Or even trade components with people, transfer money to get started welcoming new players so they can get involved without the grind. Thargoid killing is the gameplay I've wanted to play but only managed to watch YouTube players partake in as I don't have the time to grind the materials needed to participate. If I could login to Elite, get in my ship and go meet up with people killing Thargoids what gameplay that would be. To partake I have to dedicate at least 95% of that time grinding to get started, which isn't worth it.
This! A thousand times this!
 
I think Odyssey turned out to basically be more of the same, but with on foot gameplay mechanic added. Collect materials to unlock x, deliver y to z for small amount of credits, etc. What we wanted, was new ships, new weapons, ship interiors, thargoid ground combat, new SRVs,
Honestly, "new ships, weapons and SRVs" sounds way more like "more of the same" than infiltrating bases on foot. I may not be part of your "we", but I sure would not prefer yet more of that over EDO. At most it would be a nice bonus as we have plenty of ships and weapons already. More SRVs would only be useful if there was a point to a new srv type.

In any case, the forums (Reddit, discord, YouTube comments and so forth) for years had space legs as number one priority by a huge margin. It seems a bit shallow to pretend we actually just wanted more ships now we have it. :p

It's a recurrent thing in this community though, to loudly demand A until we get it, then pretend we never cared much and it's really B we wanted. From planetary landings and spacelegs to the orrery and passenger missions; we always go "yeah cool but what about [insert next thing]".

I can promise that if there ever comes ship interiors and the panther Clipper people immediately go "cool but we really only asked for ELW", followed by "ELW are nice but we only wanted base building".
 
All new ships have to serve a purpose and right now we are pretty full on ships that fit each niche. You have to ask yourself when introducing a ship what it will do that others don't and what will it make obsolete if you do introduce it. It's quite a balancing act and not as easy as "Give us more ships" Having said all that, the imperials need a medium fighter like the FDL though.
Unfortunately the current balance that kills hulltanks means that in PvP at least things like the gunship, dropship and FAS, Clipper, Crusader are utterly useless unless you're a terrific pilot and if you are you'd just be able to kill them easier in an FDL anyway.
 
All new ships have to serve a purpose and right now we are pretty full on ships that fit each niche. You have to ask yourself when introducing a ship what it will do that others don't and what will it make obsolete if you do introduce it. It's quite a balancing act and not as easy as "Give us more ships" Having said all that, the imperials need a medium fighter like the FDL though.
Unfortunately the current balance that kills hulltanks means that in PvP at least things like the gunship, dropship and FAS, Clipper, Crusader are utterly useless unless you're a terrific pilot and if you are you'd just be able to kill them easier in an FDL anyway.
It would also be nice if the current Gunship, Assault ship and Drop ship actually fulfilled their named roles
 
I think style has to be a big factor with ships, you can’t have too many as long as they look and sound different

for me each manufacturer in game should be making a ship in its style for all roles
 
I think style has to be a big factor with ships, you can’t have too many as long as they look and sound different
Well, I think Star Citizen has proven that (162 to buy)... I'll get me coat...
 
Noted use of underline. Truly.
I think the "simply can not happen" assumption really can only come if you know how development runs in general and what's going on in the thick of it.
I don't ever expect you to know how the team works, how decisions are made and I wouldn't ever hold that against you really because you're physically not present.
I would never tell you what was possible or impossible for you in your work or otherwise, unless I knew your absolute situation and was right there in it with you.
It's tough, it really is. I do feel your pain.

What I DO understand though is the frustration you have as an outsider and how we must seem when we do have to make adjustments to promises, don't show to be conforming to "simple ideals" that you all would prefer from us, when the game that you've enjoyed for so long isn't matching up to expectations. That truly must be horrible for people as invested as you all dearly are and it's equally horrible for people like many of us who are so desperate to make things perfect but don't entirely have the power you're asking of us.

I think some of your suggestions are wonderful!! Absolutely!! I would LOVE to talk honest detail with you all - actually the whole of the CM team would, but due to some factors we currently aren't able but I HOPE...I truly hope we can begin to work on that side of things asap. I do.

due to some factors we currently aren't able (to talk honest detail with you all)


.... Does that mean there's a disconnect between the CMs and the devs resulting in the CM team simply not being given accurate information, or is there someone in the corporate hierarchy that is setting up information embargos?

The recent example that comes to mind is Arf basically repeatedly saying that the console release was on track for next month right up until David made a post saying console was being delayed, and mentioned offhandedly that there was an update 6 in the works.

Blink twice if ya'll are being held hostage by hostile middle management.
 
Honestly, "new ships, weapons and SRVs" sounds way more like "more of the same" than infiltrating bases on foot. I may not be part of your "we", but I sure would not prefer yet more of that over EDO. At most it would be a nice bonus as we have plenty of ships and weapons already. More SRVs would only be useful if there was a point to a new srv type.

In any case, the forums (Reddit, discord, YouTube comments and so forth) for years had space legs as number one priority by a huge margin. It seems a bit shallow to pretend we actually just wanted more ships now we have it. :p

It's a recurrent thing in this community though, to loudly demand A until we get it, then pretend we never cared much and it's really B we wanted. From planetary landings and spacelegs to the orrery and passenger missions; we always go "yeah cool but what about [insert next thing]".

I can promise that if there ever comes ship interiors and the panther Clipper people immediately go "cool but we really only asked for ELW", followed by "ELW are nice but we only wanted base building".
You're on the money with point out that you're not in my 'we' and I'm glad you've done that, as it avoids a needless argument over the fact that 'we' doesn't mean everyone... apparently a favourite bit of Forum PvP I'm told? Anyway, I like infiltrating bases on foot, I'm not complaining about the added spaces we can go, or the way we go there, I'm complaining that in an update that took 3 years to develop and release (and the state of the release says it should have taken longer) there's actually no new space content at all. Some shiny effects sure, you can walk around inside stations (at very low FPS), but nothing else changed. New ships are always welcome, you don't have to buy them if you don't want them, but I see people talking ALL the time about new ships. They want a modern ship designed for AX for example, that isn't the T10... I mean who came up with that idea, then restricted AX weapons to 4 per ship... two different designers? Or a sadist!? New PvP ships that can match the Metas, upgrades via rebalancing that make some of the existing ones actually usable in PvP without being Quidd, or Rui, or Walking... Essentially, you put Rui in a Chieftain and me in an FDL, he's likely to win, reverse it and he's definitely gunna win, put me and another equal pilot in those ships and whoever is in the FDL is gunna win... that shouldn't be the case. As for SRV's, of course there are multiple uses for SRVs and there would be a point to having an SRV with far more weaponry and armour for example, or one that can mine on the surface, etc. Racing SRV's, I mean people are gunna race them Frontier... why not make some specifically for racing? Just do it, it aint gunna hurt anyone and it will make a lot of people very happy!

As for your recurrent comment, yes, there are a lot of people who do that, it's not what I'm doing. I wasn't in this from the kickstarter onwards, I came in with my money later and bought into the franchise because of the stuff that had been put on offer and the stuff that was teased for the future. I don't remember anyone saying there would be capture the flag in settlements with bullet sponge NPCs... do you? I don't remember anyone saying the stations would only have one room and they'd all be identical aside from a few ads, a bit of rubbish on the ground and the paint jobs, do you? I do remember reading about ship interiors, 'armstrong moments', EVA's, salvage, cities on planets... where's all of that? Currently Frontier says there are "No plans for ship interiors", "No plans for new ships", "No plans for new SRV's"... this isn't a case of me saying "Well what we actually wanted was this" or "but you promised x", it's a case of "You never even mentioned this, where's the stuff you did mention?".

All new ships have to serve a purpose and right now we are pretty full on ships that fit each niche. You have to ask yourself when introducing a ship what it will do that others don't and what will it make obsolete if you do introduce it. It's quite a balancing act and not as easy as "Give us more ships" Having said all that, the imperials need a medium fighter like the FDL though.
Unfortunately the current balance that kills hulltanks means that in PvP at least things like the gunship, dropship and FAS, Clipper, Crusader are utterly useless unless you're a terrific pilot and if you are you'd just be able to kill them easier in an FDL anyway.

I disagree, a heavy hauler that fits on a medium pad would be very useful, it doesn't exist. Various armoured versions of the current haulage ships would be useful too, like the T10 is the armoured version of the T9, with more armour, more firepower and more engine, where's the T8? We got the Keelback for the T6 obviously, but still... plenty more niches to fill, currently lots of ships are a huge compromise to make them fit their role, smaller compromises are entirely possible and I feel would be welcome. As for combat, there's tonnes of space for new ships. I've got 5 FDLs for a start, I'd much rather have 5 different 'meta level' ships, all with different paint jobs, ship kits, flight models, weapon loadouts, etc. that are competitive against each other. The ships to fill those gaps don't exist. And yes, the Drop ship should have been used instead of the Vulture, but also, we should be able to get into the dropship together as a team, not each individually go to Frontline and then each individually get an individual dropship there... they clearly built it that way in one build or another, because one of Arfs teaser vids actually showed the Player character inside the Vulture Dropship compartment, with other soldiers! What we actually got instead, was a total waste of interior ship space, in a ship that makes no sense as a drop ship! The Challenger would make a fairly perfect drop ship for the Alliance side too, yet it wasn't used and why don't the imperials even have one!? In space CZ's, if you're fighting for the Feds you're fighting alongside Vultures, FAS, FGS, FDS and Corvettes with the odd other ship thrown in, if you're fighting for the Imperials you're fighting alongside Cutters and Couriers and Clippers and Eagles, with the odd other ship thrown in, if you're fighting for the Alliance, you're fighting alongside Chieftains and Challis.... why is it, if you drop into a ground CZ for any side, you go there in a Core Dynamics built Vulture? There are literally tonnes of possibilities for ships, we want them. Anyone who doesn't, that's fine, don't buy them, but lots of us do want them.

Well, I think Star Citizen has proven that (162 to buy)... I'll get me coat...
Exactly! Some people cannot stand the Type 7 for example, while some people adore it, I know one guy who uses it for exploring for goodness sake! You can never have enough ships!
 
this is interesting to me, because I just don't see what a HOTAS would change in NMS - it can be perfectly flown with mouse and W,S for thrusters. the planetary approach is just awesome in NMS, when you enter the atmosphere and slowly you can see more and more of the landscape. Entering the lower atmosphere during a storm can be dangerous though. I don't miss the flight model of Elite there, because this game isn't really about flying your spacecraft, but more about exploration on planets. I came to Elite when Horizon came out, I came for planetary action - but when I compare what NMS offers and what Elite offers, it is not even hard to make the decision to play NMS and drop Elite. I came for the planetary stuff and NMS just does it by orders of magnitude better. And NMS has a fairly good interface to play the game intuitively - I even got used to build and quick menu meanwhile - but in the end what counts for me is "do I have fun playing the game?" - and the answer for Elite was "no, not really" and for NMS "you bet, I hardly can stop playing".
I think a lot of ED players play it for the flying a space ship bit, the thing that always kept me coming back wasn't advancement in a story or an achievement, it was (and still is) the flying the ship bit. The manual landing, the feel, and that for me requires a hotas, even a cheap one.

edit - ie the boring bits, supercruise, landing, a bit of space trucking? Brilliant.

NMS I appreciate and admire, I just don't like to play it.

Different strokes.
 
Know what, blackice? I WILL reply to this. Darn right I will, because I need to send you my silly thanks for the massive thought here.
I don't blame anyone for some of the assumptions (I don't like the nasty side and the personal ick), the constructive ones are very valid - but until we are in a good position on ALL fronts from all sides of development and appoval, we remain eager little beavers on the team, with a lot of love to give.

Truth still lies that no one is "hiding" anything maliciously from you all, even if it may seem it sometimes.
Many people want this to develop into a perfect scenario based on everything you lot and us could ever wish for with Elite - and it's taking time and a bit of bag shaking.
It'll feel like a lifetime to you all, which is why I'm forever saying how grateful I am to many of you for your input and engagement in the ways you do.

My little flashlight of cheerleading and positivity for the future still flashes, whether you all see it or not some days - but we have things to truly look forward to. A LOT due to the fact many of your have supported us with so much great feedback and thoughts, sharing your true passion with us for Elite.

We may end up making some more mistakes, it happens...I'm ready for those moments too...but I want us to learn and just get meatier as we straighten things out.
I'm excited! Call me crazy haha!

Thanks millions. WE ARE SO READY!!!!!!!!!!
That's so heartening to hear and I truly hope you're saying there's a corner about to be turned!

For what it's worth I would love for a set of core principles to be worked out to guide all future design and direction decisions made by FDev Ideally worked out with consultation with us players so it's something we can all get behind.

A little like the kickstarter days.

I think that would go a long way to restore faith in where ED is going. I personally don't need to know everything that's happening behind the scenes, just that it's heading a long set path. A path I can believe in.

I have to say though, Odyssey as an expansion says to me there is no coherent vision at present and the game is being pulled pilar to post.

So i'd love to hear you say that this is something that is in the works and you'll share it with us when ready.

As ever Sally you're the gem in an otherwise tarnished crown. Thank you for your constant upbeat attitude. It's so so welcome! 😀
 
Don't get your hopes up, it will only end in disappointment. Expect nothing and get pleasantly surprised instead.
I agree with the sentiment, but I'm a (relatively) level headed adult and I can handle reality not meeting my (at best) speculative musings about what the future might bring.

Ultimately all I really want is to continue playing one of my favourite games, to do so alongside people who currently can't play due to performance issues or bugs as well as new players, and to be given access to more content (whatever that means) thoughout my journey to keep me engaged with the world.
 
You're on the money with point out that you're not in my 'we' and I'm glad you've done that, as it avoids a needless argument over the fact that 'we' doesn't mean everyone... apparently a favourite bit of Forum PvP I'm told? Anyway, I like infiltrating bases on foot, I'm not complaining about the added spaces we can go, or the way we go there, I'm complaining that in an update that took 3 years to develop and release (and the state of the release says it should have taken longer) there's actually no new space content at all. Some shiny effects sure, you can walk around inside stations (at very low FPS), but nothing else changed. New ships are always welcome, you don't have to buy them if you don't want them, but I see people talking ALL the time about new ships. They want a modern ship designed for AX for example, that isn't the T10... I mean who came up with that idea, then restricted AX weapons to 4 per ship... two different designers? Or a sadist!? New PvP ships that can match the Metas, upgrades via rebalancing that make some of the existing ones actually usable in PvP without being Quidd, or Rui, or Walking... Essentially, you put Rui in a Chieftain and me in an FDL, he's likely to win, reverse it and he's definitely gunna win, put me and another equal pilot in those ships and whoever is in the FDL is gunna win... that shouldn't be the case. As for SRV's, of course there are multiple uses for SRVs and there would be a point to having an SRV with far more weaponry and armour for example, or one that can mine on the surface, etc. Racing SRV's, I mean people are gunna race them Frontier... why not make some specifically for racing? Just do it, it aint gunna hurt anyone and it will make a lot of people very happy!

As for your recurrent comment, yes, there are a lot of people who do that, it's not what I'm doing. I wasn't in this from the kickstarter onwards, I came in with my money later and bought into the franchise because of the stuff that had been put on offer and the stuff that was teased for the future. I don't remember anyone saying there would be capture the flag in settlements with bullet sponge NPCs... do you? I don't remember anyone saying the stations would only have one room and they'd all be identical aside from a few ads, a bit of rubbish on the ground and the paint jobs, do you? I do remember reading about ship interiors, 'armstrong moments', EVA's, salvage, cities on planets... where's all of that? Currently Frontier says there are "No plans for ship interiors", "No plans for new ships", "No plans for new SRV's"... this isn't a case of me saying "Well what we actually wanted was this" or "but you promised x", it's a case of "You never even mentioned this, where's the stuff you did mention?".



I disagree, a heavy hauler that fits on a medium pad would be very useful, it doesn't exist. Various armoured versions of the current haulage ships would be useful too, like the T10 is the armoured version of the T9, with more armour, more firepower and more engine, where's the T8? We got the Keelback for the T6 obviously, but still... plenty more niches to fill, currently lots of ships are a huge compromise to make them fit their role, smaller compromises are entirely possible and I feel would be welcome. As for combat, there's tonnes of space for new ships. I've got 5 FDLs for a start, I'd much rather have 5 different 'meta level' ships, all with different paint jobs, ship kits, flight models, weapon loadouts, etc. that are competitive against each other. The ships to fill those gaps don't exist. And yes, the Drop ship should have been used instead of the Vulture, but also, we should be able to get into the dropship together as a team, not each individually go to Frontline and then each individually get an individual dropship there... they clearly built it that way in one build or another, because one of Arfs teaser vids actually showed the Player character inside the Vulture Dropship compartment, with other soldiers! What we actually got instead, was a total waste of interior ship space, in a ship that makes no sense as a drop ship! The Challenger would make a fairly perfect drop ship for the Alliance side too, yet it wasn't used and why don't the imperials even have one!? In space CZ's, if you're fighting for the Feds you're fighting alongside Vultures, FAS, FGS, FDS and Corvettes with the odd other ship thrown in, if you're fighting for the Imperials you're fighting alongside Cutters and Couriers and Clippers and Eagles, with the odd other ship thrown in, if you're fighting for the Alliance, you're fighting alongside Chieftains and Challis.... why is it, if you drop into a ground CZ for any side, you go there in a Core Dynamics built Vulture? There are literally tonnes of possibilities for ships, we want them. Anyone who doesn't, that's fine, don't buy them, but lots of us do want them.


Exactly! Some people cannot stand the Type 7 for example, while some people adore it, I know one guy who uses it for exploring for goodness sake! You can never have enough ships!
Where did they say no plans for new ships or srvs?
 
and planet generation (overhangs and caves ftw)
Less cartoony you say? There weren't many caves and overhands on the moon. Strangely, as they are caused by water. Oh hang on, the worlds we can land on in ED don't have liquid water on the surface, and never did. Hey, science wins!
 
I think a lot of ED players play it for the flying a space ship bit, the thing that always kept me coming back wasn't advancement in a story or an achievement, it was (and still is) the flying the ship bit. The manual landing, the feel, and that for me requires a hotas, even a cheap one.

edit - ie the boring bits, supercruise, landing, a bit of space trucking? Brilliant.

NMS I appreciate and admire, I just don't like to play it.

Different strokes.
yeah, we both are looking for different things in a space game. When I'm playing EVE it is about the player-driven market and my market pvp niche and my activities are bound to being successful in this niche market. Elite doesn't have what makes EVE great and I wasn't interested in ED for as long as it didn't have planetary activities. This is what brought me to Elite - activities on planets - because what is out there in the galaxy?- stars, asteroid belts, planets, moons, nebulae - planets with atmospheres and life forms are interesting here, and EDO offers too little of that - well, NMS has all this and more, and I can play it NOW (not probably in a few years but NOW and that is very important) and there are many updates throughout a year as well - not just fixing stuff, but actually adding new content. NMS has some bugs as well, for example I can craft certain items without to actually know the crafting recipe - the refiner tells me that I don't have the recipe, but it still performs the crafting operation nevertheless. NMS is not a space flight simulator, it is an exploration and adventuring game in 256 galaxies, but mainly happening on planets - and this is exactly what I expect it to be and why I like it that much.
 
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