The people on this forum give pretty solid feedback overall imho. If you look at how detailed the posts about management, terrain, coasters or display sequencer, or of all the big problems are really.
Devs, can we get a definitive answer on ... future passionate development
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The people on this forum give pretty solid feedback overall imho. If you look at how detailed the posts about management, terrain, coasters or display sequencer, or of all the big problems are really.
Ok, it would be the best, but It doesn´t work. People with "positive" opinion usually reply with "this is your opinion" statement, which is useless. I wish they just ignored if they have nothing else to say, like why exactly it is fine in current form and why they think suggested change wouldn´t be better.
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I think the same can be said for the other side (negative) too. People tend to use Rose colored glasses and only see their side "clearly" and easily finding issues on the other. There are multiple examples where "positive" threads has been shut down in the same way you just mentioned but with the comment "They should work in this first because it is more important...". That is exactly the same kind of response you just said you did not want from the "positive side". Instead of telling them that other, in your opinion features are more important, why don't you (and the "negative side") in that case comment on the topic itself and give suggestions instead of just saying: no, it can't happen until my ideas has been implemented first, because they are more important and game breaking FOR ME.
Don't throw stones in a glass house.
Mr.Sugar, what is more important? discussing the game? or discussing the proper way to criticize a game? Personally, I think it would be better to discuss the game, rather than how to criticize the game. I give criticism all the time, but at a certain point it gets old and repetitive. Especially when you're not discussing the game. If there is one or two specific things you think are essential or vital to your enjoyment, then you should discuss those specific ideas in a well thought out cohesive manner.
Reading through the posts here it seems to me that a lot of this misunderstanding between differing opinions could be solved by the use of some qualifiers when offering those thoughts. Rather than making blanket statements like - "this game is unplayable right now" and have people jump in to disagree, if the original statement was framed as "for me this game has become unplayable' or 'in my opinion the game has become unplayable' it might go over well and let people consider why you feel that way rather than feeling the need to jump in to disagree.
That and the simply addition of the words like 'perhaps', 'maybe', 'in my opinion', 'in my experience', or 'for me' and the like might change the tone a little.
I don't think anyone is saying people don't have a perfect right to state an opinion one way or another, it's when those personal opinions are stated as blanket absolutes that will get people in a dither sometimes. Then the topic breaks down into back and forth arguing, which perhaps is what some people might not like and which might be behind the view of things being 'toxic' at times. I'll admit myself that I've dismissed reading threads here because of that very thing - who wants to wade through page after page of arguing with little discussion of the actual subject? Perhaps others feel the same way, which is sad because good ideas might not get the attention and consideration they should.
Making something less 'toxic' doesn't require anyone to stop speaking out and offering their views. It's perhaps offering those same views in a little different way. At least that's how I see it, right or wrong...
That and the simply addition of the words like 'perhaps', 'maybe', 'in my opinion', 'in my experience', or 'for me' and the like might change the tone a little.
I don't think anyone is saying people don't have a perfect right to state an opinion one way or another, it's when those personal opinions are stated as blanket absolutes that will get people in a dither sometimes. Then the topic breaks down into back and forth arguing, which perhaps is what some people might not like and which might be behind the view of things being 'toxic' at times. I'll admit myself that I've dismissed reading threads here because of that very thing - who wants to wade through page after page of arguing with little discussion of the actual subject? Perhaps others feel the same way, which is sad because good ideas might not get the attention and consideration they should.
Making something less 'toxic' doesn't require anyone to stop speaking out and offering their views. It's perhaps offering those same views in a little different way. At least that's how I see it, right or wrong...
(Red letters by me.)
Exactly. There are some threads in the Suggestion area where are just ... suggestions [shocked][big grin]. Still there are some threads where people write that "we" don't need this and that and that other things are more important. It is okay when they think so, but why telling this in a suggestion thread about a completely different thing? And don't tell me what "we" or I need. What I need is expressed in my messages.[big grin]
I can only talk for myself, so I only suggest what I would like to see and wouldn't say to anybody that his or her wish is more or less important. Every wish and suggestion is important for the individual member of the community. Period.[big grin] Only because I don't share the opinion of others, I am not yet a fanboy (I REALLY hate this argument which is as stupid as "this is your opinion").[big grin]
I personally enjoy building stuff a lot so I am quite happy with the game as it is. Yet I would like to see improvements in management etc as well as I think there is much more to do (which will happen I guess). So I am neither a "fanboy" or a "complainer" but see myself quite in the middle of it.[big grin]
It is okay to express wishes and complain about things that don't work or could work better. This is how to improve a game. It is also okay to say that somebody is okay with the game as it is because they might have a focus on building. From the "complainers" side (I hate the term but at least everybody knows what I mean[big grin]) we often hear that the game is unplayable etc. From their side it is like that.[yesnod] From the builders side it is not.[yesnod] So why are the builders "fanboys"? Because they play the game different than others?[wacky] I often read "everybody is entitled to their opinion" - right so - but I mostly read it as a defense. The "other" side is also "entitled to their opinion". Sometimes I think that people from both "sides" seem to forget it sometimes.[rolleyes]
I personally, and there is no reason to discuss whether I am right or wrong in others point of view - it is my opinion - the game is not unplayable for ME, but also not yet perfect for ME. Others think the game is unplayable or even perfect. Others might want things in the game I personally wouldn't need or even want, but the decision is at Frontier.[big grin] They cannot make it right for everybody.[ugh] So there will be things I love and others which I don't like or even hate. It's like all other things in real life. [big grin]
When I express my wishes in a suggestion thread or answer to somebody who suggested something I really think would be great there is no need to tell me that "we" need other things first. There can be a discussion whether such an addition makes sense or not or were would be some things that would have to be thought through to make such an addition even better. That's totally fine.[big grin] Last but not least it is just a "suggestion". Frontier decides whether they want it in their game or not.
By the way, this was the last thing I wanted to say to all this because such a discussion leads to nothing but to more ... intoxication[big grin]. Most of us are grown ups and kindergarden-discussions like they are wrong, we are right lead to nothing.
Criticise if you need to and where it is important, praise where you like to express that something is great. Work together to make a good game (my opinion [rolleyes]) even better[big grin]
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Even better and shorter than what I wrote above [big grin]
this. exactly.
i want to say what i like about the game, without being flooded out with "yeah but what about".
i want to say what i don't like about the game, without being flooded out with "don't be so negative".
i enjoy reading what others like and don't like.
i do not enjoy threads being hijacked by positive v negative wars.
there are a few topics that, clearly, Frontier know about, and they will not be officially commenting on until they have figured out what they can and cannot do. let's take a breath for 6 months and let them chip away at it. at FX17, the devs talked quite openly about the difficulties, and the possibilities, for solving most of the repetitive complaints. i'm happy to wait 6-9 months for a good solution. devs rushing under pressure is not a win for players.
When every other thread that starts out about the game derails into the same old useless discussions, discussing the proper way how to talk on a forum might not be such a bad idea. [wink]
More staying OT and opening separate threads for separate topics that come up would be good. And generally more moderation couldn't hurt. By that I don't mean mods commenting, but moderating. I don't know, this would mean more work for the moderators. But I feel right now it's basically (almost) anything goes. For a reference, I'm really a fan of how the civfanatics forums are run. Might be something to think about.
This.
Totally agree.
As for those of you who like design/sandbox gaming well I can understand why you like it. A positive side is the prettiness and the semi-realism, alas for me I was looking forward to a game with a high intellectual capacity, which who knows one day that might happen!
As for DX12, all I know is things can change quickly so a big part of me is holding out as my worry is we design tons loads of parks on dx 11 which cannot be supported on dx12, maybe I might be wrong here.
Any DX this, that or the other does not matter if base game is not massively improved aver and above design based DLCs.
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Ditto
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Exactly.
Also how many 'years' do we wait for base game fixes to be done? Year one anniversary and the flaws are still there, do we wait a further year or two, should I time it nicely with my OAP first cheque! The point is those that like design over tools and management usually are positive and enjoy the 'status quo' and those that are highly frustrated due to the simulation evolved process for management and tools and base game fixes being more 'devolved' / stagnant - so it is obvious why the two sides target each other and all of this 'means nothing' if Frontier do not deliver what was promised for all areas and not just design.
So lets keep on bickering as the only one who can change this is Frontier not us!
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Klötenkieker well said, I knew if this thread went on long enough someone would eventually figure it out. [wink] Actually this sort of discussion is fairly common on game forums and stems from a lack of information in terms of development details.
There are two main aspects to a Rollercoaster game, park building and management. I wouldn't exactly label them as two sides as this insights one against another and this isn't really the case here. There are also other smaller parts to the game which add to the full experience.
Planet coaster has both of the main parts but the parking building aspect has advanced at a much faster rate. Once the system for adding content was established it's become easier to implement further pieces/ themes than other areas of gameplay. Park management on the other hand has more issues with integrating them in to the mechanics of the game. This can make it more difficult to perfect new additions and often contributes to slower progress in implementing these features.
For me, I prefer the management part of the game but I've enjoyed the building aspects where the rich colourful piece by piece way of building, which out performs anything I thought possible 18 months back. Those who like the management aspects have been patiently waiting for features to be added and after a years worth of development were probably hoping for further progress. This has lead to frustration especially as the building part has come on leaps and bounds.
I think some of the frustration has also come from looking back at RCT3 and realising the depth of management that already existed there. I'm sure the assumption was that PC would have everything that RCT3 had plus additional management enhancements. Frontier released PC earlier than would have been possible otherwise and chose to concentrate on the creative building aspects first. (Likely driven by how the community had pushed the boundaries in the previous game) But this does not mean other parts of the game have been forgotten.
Frontier will be aware of the communities wishes (or if they weren't they sure are after this thread) and are looking in to what can be added in the future. But I implore you guys to bear with it, there will be times when one aspect is being considered more than another in an update. The anniversary release looks to have some management additions and I am sure we will learn to push those new tools to their limits. It is probably not everything that everyone wanted but this is still work in progress, so give them some space. [happy]
As for the differing views, I am actually all for open discussion with everyone's opinions being voiced. We all want an amazing game which will only happen if we voice our different hopes for game play. Frontier will want this game to keep going in the same way Elite has and the only way to do that is to keep adding new features (Both building and management)
So lets see what arrives later this month and then give constructive opinions on where further improvements can still be made. Of course everyone will want added/ improved content based on their own hopes for the game so be tolerant of what others want as well. [up]
There are two main aspects to a Rollercoaster game, park building and management. I wouldn't exactly label them as two sides as this insights one against another and this isn't really the case here. There are also other smaller parts to the game which add to the full experience.
Planet coaster has both of the main parts but the parking building aspect has advanced at a much faster rate. Once the system for adding content was established it's become easier to implement further pieces/ themes than other areas of gameplay. Park management on the other hand has more issues with integrating them in to the mechanics of the game. This can make it more difficult to perfect new additions and often contributes to slower progress in implementing these features.
For me, I prefer the management part of the game but I've enjoyed the building aspects where the rich colourful piece by piece way of building, which out performs anything I thought possible 18 months back. Those who like the management aspects have been patiently waiting for features to be added and after a years worth of development were probably hoping for further progress. This has lead to frustration especially as the building part has come on leaps and bounds.
I think some of the frustration has also come from looking back at RCT3 and realising the depth of management that already existed there. I'm sure the assumption was that PC would have everything that RCT3 had plus additional management enhancements. Frontier released PC earlier than would have been possible otherwise and chose to concentrate on the creative building aspects first. (Likely driven by how the community had pushed the boundaries in the previous game) But this does not mean other parts of the game have been forgotten.
Frontier will be aware of the communities wishes (or if they weren't they sure are after this thread) and are looking in to what can be added in the future. But I implore you guys to bear with it, there will be times when one aspect is being considered more than another in an update. The anniversary release looks to have some management additions and I am sure we will learn to push those new tools to their limits. It is probably not everything that everyone wanted but this is still work in progress, so give them some space. [happy]
As for the differing views, I am actually all for open discussion with everyone's opinions being voiced. We all want an amazing game which will only happen if we voice our different hopes for game play. Frontier will want this game to keep going in the same way Elite has and the only way to do that is to keep adding new features (Both building and management)
So lets see what arrives later this month and then give constructive opinions on where further improvements can still be made. Of course everyone will want added/ improved content based on their own hopes for the game so be tolerant of what others want as well. [up]
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