Ships Diamondback: I must have missed something?

Colonel North · Jun 2, 2015

Disclaimer: I don't have beta access so my only knowledge comes from playing around with configs on ED Shipyard!

I can't spot any upsides to the Diamondback over the Cobra - but I am looking to be educated on the obvious something I've missed!

1. The base ship costs more than the Cobra.

2. Trading - the Cobra can carry a significant amount more cargo

3. Combat - the Diamondback seems to be more agile with the same (better placed?) hardpoints, but has can't fit as high a rated shield.

4. Exploring - Diamondback has slightly more jump range, but can't fit both scanners, fuel scoop and AFMU, so (for me) is not viable for exploring.

So other than combat (and that seems debatable) the DB is outclassed on the other roles, so not mulit-purpose and it's more expensive. If combat is it's only virtue get a Viper or Eagle?

Again, I accept I've probably missed something so I'm not having a moan just keen to know what it is I've missed!

matemaster · Jun 2, 2015

You didnt missed anything.
Also in my opinion, diamondback is redundant ship

Derath · Jun 2, 2015

The combat list is wrong as it contains an assumption that a higher class shield is better, which it usually isn't as the base shielding characteristic is what changes whether its good or not (for example the clipper can fit an A6 or even an A7 shield I think, yet has vastly less shielding than the A5 on a FDL). So it is probably better in combat than a cobra, however all other points are basically correct

Colonel North · Jun 2, 2015

Derath said:
The combat list is wrong as it contains an assumption that a higher class shield is better, which it usually isn't as the base shielding characteristic is what changes whether its good or not (for example the clipper can fit an A6 or even an A7 shield I think, yet has vastly less shielding than the A5 on a FDL). So it is probably better in combat than a cobra, however all other points are basically correct

Ah ok, fair comment. I use an FDL so should have thought of that!

So if my other points are right it's a combat focused ship?

LeetNoob · Jun 2, 2015

Actually a 3A shiled on the Diamondback is slightly (140MJ against 135MJ) stronger than the cobra with 4A shields. But I agree, I have not tested myself but I don't see why you wouldn't just get a Cobra for mutli role or Viper for combat instead.

Dakron Nova · Jun 2, 2015

Is it "eaglish"? By which I mean if in the hands of a good CMDR once it gets behind you and close, it can stay there no matter what? Ie hard to shake off and therefore hit?

I remember using this technique in my early days to take out much larger ships. Ie they couldn't get their weapons to bear.

Derath · Jun 2, 2015

Colonel North said:
Ah ok, fair comment. I use an FDL so should have thought of that!

So if my other points are right it's a combat focused ship?

I think the truth is it isn't a focused ship, which is the whole problem and why it keeps getting compared to the cobra. Its a multi-role ship that is outclassed at being multi-role by a cheaper ship, you could view it as combat focused as its the only thing left its good at but I believe the viper is still better at that too (and cheaper) which makes it very hard to draw comparisons to anything other than the superior cobra.

Arsen Cross · Jun 2, 2015

If the diamondback gets it's size 2 internal compartment split into two size 1 internals... The ship will be good to go, in my opinion.

Time Streamer · Jun 2, 2015

It's the most disappointing feature of 1.3 patch. Not that the rest is A-OK perfect, surely there's job to be done but i've expected the Diamondback for some time (And i'm sure many also did it). Ship has an underpowered weapon class (2x C1 and 2x C2 wth..) and few slots to fit modules. What a disappointment..

Derath · Jun 2, 2015

I have to say I was disappointed overall, as I hoped it was going to be a comparison point to the python with less cargo and weaponry but more mobility (probably a pirateship hope). I also thought it looks so damn good I was desperate for it to be good to use.

Alex Brentnall · Jun 2, 2015

Tl:dr From everything I have seen. DB is a a cobra with the trading bits toned down and the combat bits boosted up.

It sits in the middle of a Viper and a Cobra. If you'd imagine:

Viper = 90% combat, 5% exploring, 5% trading
Cobra = 33% combat, 33% exploring, 33% trading (capacity for mining and other stuff in there as well obviously).
DimBk = 45% combat, 45% exploring, 10% trading

Slightly better in one area, slightly worse in another. The halfway house. Gives another option for those at the cheaper end of the ships field.

Edit: I personally think they made the cobra too good originally which means the DB looks bad, I also think people have an unhealthy obsession with jump range. BUT I do not think the DB is a bad ship, its just not the ship most people imagined it to be.

Colonel North · Jun 2, 2015

Aidan Patrick said:
If the diamondback gets it's size 2 internal compartment split into two size 1 internals... The ship will be good to go, in my opinion.

Yep, agree, that would a mini-ASP but with a focus really only on exploring

I appreciate the PP is in beta, so as in op I'm curious not trying to have a moan

LeetNoob · Jun 2, 2015

Alex Brentnall said:
Tl:dr From everything I have seen. DB is a a cobra with the trading bits toned down and the combat bits boosted up combat.

It sits in the middle of a Viper and a Cobra. If you'd imagine:

Viper = 90% combat, 5% exploring, 5% trading
Cobra = 33% combat, 33% exploring, 33% trading (capacity for mining and other stuff in there as well obviously).
DimBk = 40% combat, 40% exploring, 10% trading

Slightly better in one area, slightly worse in another. The halfway house. Gives another option for those at the cheaper end of the ships field.

Edit: I personally think they made the cobra too good originally which means the Viper looks bad, I also think people have an unhealthy obsession with jump range. BUT I do not think the DB is a bad ship, its just not the ship most people imagined it to be.

Was the diamond back only getting 90% intentional?

Colonel North · Jun 2, 2015

Alex Brentnall said:
Tl:dr From everything I have seen. DB is a a cobra with the trading bits toned down and the combat bits boosted up combat.

It sits in the middle of a Viper and a Cobra. If you'd imagine:

Viper = 90% combat, 5% exploring, 5% trading
Cobra = 33% combat, 33% exploring, 33% trading (capacity for mining and other stuff in there as well obviously).
DimBk = 40% combat, 40% exploring, 10% trading

Slightly better in one area, slightly worse in another. The halfway house. Gives another option for those at the cheaper end of the ships field.

Edit: I personally think they made the cobra too good originally which means the Viper looks bad, I also think people have an unhealthy obsession with jump range. BUT I do not think the DB is a bad ship, its just not the ship most people imagined it to be.

Good summary and stats breakdown, really ticked my OCD boxes!

I tried to give rep but apparently have already done so recently!

Alex Brentnall · Jun 2, 2015

LeetNoob said:
Was the diamond back only getting 90% intentional?

No, I just had an exam this morning so am a little woozy, correcting now

Meant to put it 45,45,10....

Edit: and combat twice in the first line, and Viper in the last instead of Diamondback, I may need to lower my alcohol intake...

LeetNoob · Jun 2, 2015

Alex Brentnall said:
No, I just had an exam this morning so am a little woozy, correcting now

Meant to put it 45,45,10....

Ha ha, ok, I thought it might be a suttle jibe at the ship. It would have been quite clever.

Canasta · Jun 2, 2015

Dakron Nova said:
Is it "eaglish"? By which I mean if in the hands of a good CMDR once it gets behind you and close, it can stay there no matter what? Ie hard to shake off and therefore hit?

I remember using this technique in my early days to take out much larger ships. Ie they couldn't get their weapons to bear.

We need to petition FD to add "eaglishness" to the list of stats shown for all ships

Matzov · Jun 2, 2015

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that it could not have both scanners and the afmu and a scoop... I just did a super quick build in EDShipyard and it seems perfectly viable to build a long-haul 'stinger' combat vessel -- http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,7sh7sh5Rr5Rr0mI0_g0_g0_g,2-6Q6Q6Q3I4s3c6k,0Ke4zM2jw2UI
--
Or a lightly armed (and could be less armed/shielded) explorer -- http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,5QR5QR7u57u501Q0Wg0Wg,2-6u6u6Q3I5K3c6k,0KU4zM2jw2UI
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The Cobra is definitely more suited to all-round purposes and future proofing though, I agree on that. It takes a bit more power management though, if you want it weaponised, with afmu & big scoop + 20 jump range.

shadragon · Jun 2, 2015

Alex Brentnall said:
BUT I do not think the DB is a bad ship, its just not the ship most people imagined it to be.

People do tend to set their expectations a wee bit high with new ship releases. The vitriol that follows is the realization that the DmB is not a Vulture killer.

I still say the DmB (avoiding DB to not confuse it with Mr. Braben) is a ship whose purpose will not be realized until other species arrive. Scouting enemy worlds and outposts while under fire will see the DmB in good stead I suspect.

LeetNoob · Jun 2, 2015

Matzov said:
Not sure how you came to the conclusion that it could not have both scanners and the afmu and a scoop... I just did a super quick build in EDShipyard and it seems perfectly viable to build a long-haul 'stinger' combat vessel -- http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,7sh7sh5Rr5Rr0mI0_g0_g0_g,2-6Q6Q6Q3I4s3c6k,0Ke4zM2jw2UI
--
Or a lightly armed (and could be less armed/shielded) explorer -- http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70h,5QR5QR7u57u501Q0Wg0Wg,2-6u6u6Q3I5K3c6k,0KU4zM2jw2UI
--
The Cobra is definitely more suited to all-round purposes and future proofing though, I agree on that. It takes a bit more power management though, if you want it weaponised, with afmu & big scoop + 20 jump range.

You just made a ship with three shield boosters and no shield.